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Post by telson13 on Sept 1, 2017 13:49:10 GMT -5
Detroit got a fantastic return for Verlander. This was a great pair of moves for them as they rebuild. Gotta think Cabrera moves during the winter.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 1, 2017 14:01:15 GMT -5
Detroit got a fantastic return for Verlander. This was a great pair of moves for them as they rebuild. Gotta think Cabrera moves during the winter. Maybe, maybe not. After the season he has had, his injury questions, and the money he's due, I think they're going to have a really hard time moving him. He's got 4 more years at $30M and 2 more at $32M. If he's going to have back issues the rest of his career, like Ausmus (stupidly) said, would you want your team even paying half of that? He's been a replacement-level player this year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2017 14:03:07 GMT -5
Detroit got a fantastic return for Verlander. This was a great pair of moves for them as they rebuild. Gotta think Cabrera moves during the winter. That's a horrendous contract, but the Red Sox are certainly looking for a middle of the order masher. The question is has Cabrera permanently ceased to be that guy? I know his season has been pretty lousy. My question is are there extenuating circumstances (like battling thru an injury) or is this his new level? As somebody not at all close to the situation, perhaps others here would have a better idea to the answer to the question. Is this decline based on age, nagging injuries, or simply a bad year? He had a strong year in 2016. If he bounces back to that, that's an excellent player, but you'd hate to get stuck with that contract to find out. Dombrowski drafted him, I think, and traded for him in Detroit. Would he go for that hat trick? I would think not? I'd guess he'd send them Hanley, and there'd be some Detroit money coming back their way? I don't want this to go to the trade subforum, so I'll stop here, but given the way Detroit's going, you'd imagine they'd try to rid themselves of that contract and will probably do a lot to facilitate it, and if he's washed up, who wants a washed up player? It'll be an interesting subplot.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 1, 2017 22:12:21 GMT -5
Detroit got a fantastic return for Verlander. This was a great pair of moves for them as they rebuild. Gotta think Cabrera moves during the winter. Maybe, maybe not. After the season he has had, his injury questions, and the money he's due, I think they're going to have a really hard time moving him. He's got 4 more years at $30M and 2 more at $32M. If he's going to have back issues the rest of his career, like Ausmus (stupidly) said, would you want your team even paying half of that? He's been a replacement-level player this year. True. But there was a recent fangraphs article comparing him and Votto (contrasting their results), and one of the takeaways I got is that there's some back luck (and pull issues, unsurprisingly) for Cabrera. His batted-ball data shows some disturbing trends, but he's also such a good hitter that I wouldn't bet against him evolving if he gets healthy. I think it's viable that Detroit swallows some significant salary, and somebody takes a flier on Miggy just having a down year, a la Ortiz 2008-2009. It's possible they won't move him, based on return/$, but it's going to be interesting to watch.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 1, 2017 22:16:26 GMT -5
Detroit got a fantastic return for Verlander. This was a great pair of moves for them as they rebuild. Gotta think Cabrera moves during the winter. That's a horrendous contract, but the Red Sox are certainly looking for a middle of the order masher. The question is has Cabrera permanently ceased to be that guy? I know his season has been pretty lousy. My question is are there extenuating circumstances (like battling thru an injury) or is this his new level? As somebody not at all close to the situation, perhaps others here would have a better idea to the answer to the question. Is this decline based on age, nagging injuries, or simply a bad year? He had a strong year in 2016. If he bounces back to that, that's an excellent player, but you'd hate to get stuck with that contract to find out. Dombrowski drafted him, I think, and traded for him in Detroit. Would he go for that hat trick? I would think not? I'd guess he'd send them Hanley, and there'd be some Detroit money coming back their way? I don't want this to go to the trade subforum, so I'll stop here, but given the way Detroit's going, you'd imagine they'd try to rid themselves of that contract and will probably do a lot to facilitate it, and if he's washed up, who wants a washed up player? It'll be an interesting subplot. Read this and see what you think. I had the same visceral "he could help the Sox" reaction, but this article left me even more conflicted. I think that his acumen, and some health, might alleviate the more disturbing trends here (to a degree...he is getting older). But... www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cabrera-and-votto-two-passing-ships/
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2017 23:35:12 GMT -5
That's a horrendous contract, but the Red Sox are certainly looking for a middle of the order masher. The question is has Cabrera permanently ceased to be that guy? I know his season has been pretty lousy. My question is are there extenuating circumstances (like battling thru an injury) or is this his new level? As somebody not at all close to the situation, perhaps others here would have a better idea to the answer to the question. Is this decline based on age, nagging injuries, or simply a bad year? He had a strong year in 2016. If he bounces back to that, that's an excellent player, but you'd hate to get stuck with that contract to find out. Dombrowski drafted him, I think, and traded for him in Detroit. Would he go for that hat trick? I would think not? I'd guess he'd send them Hanley, and there'd be some Detroit money coming back their way? I don't want this to go to the trade subforum, so I'll stop here, but given the way Detroit's going, you'd imagine they'd try to rid themselves of that contract and will probably do a lot to facilitate it, and if he's washed up, who wants a washed up player? It'll be an interesting subplot. Read this and see what you think. I had the same visceral "he could help the Sox" reaction, but this article left me even more conflicted. I think that his acumen, and some health, might alleviate the more disturbing trends here (to a degree...he is getting older). But... www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cabrera-and-votto-two-passing-ships/Thanks for the article. Perhaps there is some bounce back in the cards for Cabrera but it's such an expensive gamble to take. If he bounces back he's a made-to-order middle-of-the-hitter masher the Red Sox lineup could really use and he wouldn't cost talent to acquire, but that contract - if he struggles for a year or two, then that's a huge waste of money, and if the decline is real, then that contract is an absolute killer. Not too many scenarios in which it's worth it. Detroit would have to subsidize an awful lot to make it palatable, and even then you wouldn't want to give up talent, and I can't imagine Detroit would subsidize a big portion for him to play elsewhere, even if it saves them $15 - $20 million/year? I have no doubt that I can see Benintendi batting 3rd and Devers 5th, and that they could really use a middle-of-the-order RH DH/1b bat for the cleanup spot (with Betts returning to his leadoff/#2 spot), but gambling on Cabrera, who has those nagging injuries, probably isn't the way to go, but it does make you think about it wondering what if... Maybe giving up some talent for Abreu is the better way to go, but even then I'd hate to give up somebody like Chavis and Groome and somebody else to make the deal.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 2, 2017 3:54:38 GMT -5
Other than Cabrera being 34, overweight, declining and signed for 6 more years at big dollars, what's not to like ?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 2, 2017 4:20:38 GMT -5
Other than Cabrera being 34, overweight, declining and signed for 6 more years at big dollars, what's not to like ? Well, he throws punches at Yankee players. So that counts for something.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 2, 2017 4:34:18 GMT -5
Other than Cabrera being 34, overweight, declining and signed for 6 more years at big dollars, what's not to like ? Well, he throws punches at Yankee players. So that counts for something. lol, more like he gets sucker punched by Yankee players but that's semantics.
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Post by michael on Sept 2, 2017 10:47:06 GMT -5
Well, he throws punches at Yankee players. So that counts for something. lol, more like he gets sucker punched by Yankee players but that's semantics. Does this mean that you're anti semantic?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 2, 2017 13:48:13 GMT -5
If you're Detriot don't you hold onto Cabrera? Let him improve next year and then trade him at deadline or next offseason. Chances are he improves next year. Trying to trade him now seems like a long-shot. Even when he was mashing that contract looked horrible. Right now it looks so bad I don't see how you trade him. Why would Detriot eat big money without a big return?
The big difference between Ortiz and Cabrera is that Ortiz was always in great shape for his body type. Cabrera needs to get in better shape. He seems lazy, has for years. Has he controlled his drinking? At the same time he is as elite of a hitter as you can get.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 3, 2017 3:41:09 GMT -5
If you're Detriot don't you hold onto Cabrera? Let him improve next year and then trade him at deadline or next offseason. Chances are he improves next year. Trying to trade him now seems like a long-shot. Even when he was mashing that contract looked horrible. Right now it looks so bad I don't see how you trade him. Why would Detriot eat big money without a big return? The big difference between Ortiz and Cabrera is that Ortiz was always in great shape for his body type. Cabrera needs to get in better shape. He seems lazy, has for years. Has he controlled his drinking? At the same time he is as elite of a hitter as you can get. All good points. I can not see Dave taking on this contract with what he already has in front of him. One more year of Hanley. Two more years of Pablo. Five more years, yikes, of price. Trying to control the cap. AND all the guys wanting big contracts coming in 3 or 4 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 3, 2017 15:01:51 GMT -5
If you're Detriot don't you hold onto Cabrera? Let him improve next year and then trade him at deadline or next offseason. Chances are he improves next year. Trying to trade him now seems like a long-shot. Even when he was mashing that contract looked horrible. Right now it looks so bad I don't see how you trade him. Why would Detriot eat big money without a big return? The big difference between Ortiz and Cabrera is that Ortiz was always in great shape for his body type. Cabrera needs to get in better shape. He seems lazy, has for years. Has he controlled his drinking? At the same time he is as elite of a hitter as you can get. All good points. I can not see Dave taking on this contract with what he already has in front of him. One more year of Hanley. Two more years of Pablo. Five more years, yikes, of price. Trying to control the cap. AND all the guys wanting big contracts coming in 3 or 4 years. I just don't see it. Unless Detriot eats 50% of his salary and accepts a low return. By low I mean like Josh Donaldson type package. At that point the rewards start to out weigh the risks. I just don't see why Detriot would do that.
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Post by jdb on Sept 3, 2017 19:27:25 GMT -5
I don't think they would have much of a market now given that salary and how bad he's been this season. I wouldn't feel comfortable even taking on half of it. I bet they sit tight and hope he rebounds and someone bites next trade deadline. If we want a DH type I'd kick the tires on Braun at 3 years and 56M left.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 3, 2017 19:40:35 GMT -5
We already have a DH type in Hanley making too much money. If they can dump him and his entire salary, I'd consider adding more money to the position, but as of now, it's a ridiculous waste of resources to double down on salary for the same position.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 16, 2017 22:43:33 GMT -5
I'm so sick of Boras playing games and holding the whole market Hostage. If I was DD I would start playing some games. I would engage Detriot about trading for Cabrera and I would make sure everyone knew. Hoping it might get Boras to speed up the process. I would also be interested in if Detriot wanted to pay a bunch of money to get rid of Cabrera for almost nothing.
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