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Red Sox reportedly used electronic devices to steal signs
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Post by soxfando on Sept 5, 2017 19:49:59 GMT -5
In the long run, the more important issue is that this is another black eye in the public's mind for New England Sports. As with the IFA penalties, the general public isn't going to view it as something everyone does and we were just the ones to get punished. We're not looking good. While the Yankees are the underreported kings of the Steroid Era "During baseball's steroid era, 26 who played for the New York Yankees - 14 pitchers and 12 position players - have been implicated in the use of performance-enhancing drugs, more than any other team. " www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yankees-implicated-in-performance-enhancing-drug-3295306.php
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 5, 2017 20:42:22 GMT -5
First off, I've been pretty clear about not thinking much of this team. But it's painfully obvious the league has it out for this organization. Manfred doesn't like that Werner (who's slime, by the way) didn't let him waltz into the commissioner role, and Torre is so biased it's actually funny. To me this just makes this team even less desirable that I was already thinking. I hate saying this, but for me this whole season from the GCL to Boston has been unappealing. The organization has some real concerns. I have not enjoyed watching this team most of the year. The front office has put all of their eggs into one basket to win in this short window, and the team is not fun to watch most nights. Our hands are tied with how close we are to the cap. There are few prospects that have much upside...so one of my joys...reading the box scores every day has disappeared for me. They lose big time with the international scandal earlier, and now we may lose the ability to get more young talent into our organization with this junk! This team has a good chance of getting knocked out of the playoffs quickly. What a disappointing year with this organization. I feel the same way. This team has been very difficult to invest time in this year as there has been little to no fight in them. This season has been the least amount of time that I have watched baseball in many years.
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Post by brendan98 on Sept 5, 2017 21:55:12 GMT -5
I agree, the farm system has been gutted to build a team with serious flaws, though there is significant upside still for many of the young players. Bad contracts are a major problem, the management from the front office to the manager have done a poor job, and now we potentially have a black eye here.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 6, 2017 3:58:11 GMT -5
To me this just makes this team even less desirable that I was already thinking. I hate saying this, but for me this whole season from the GCL to Boston has been unappealing. The organization has some real concerns. I have not enjoyed watching this team most of the year. The front office has put all of their eggs into one basket to win in this short window, and the team is not fun to watch most nights. Our hands are tied with how close we are to the cap. There are few prospects that have much upside...so one of my joys...reading the box scores every day has disappeared for me. They lose big time with the international scandal earlier, and now we may lose the ability to get more young talent into our organization with this junk! This team has a good chance of getting knocked out of the playoffs quickly. What a disappointing year with this organization. I feel the same way. This team has been very difficult to invest time in this year as there has been little to no fight in them. This season has been the least amount of time that I have watched baseball in many years. The only thing that I don't find appealing about this team is the lack of offense. Everything else has been awesome. I feel the exact opposite of both of you. Go check their record when coming from behind this season. Go check their record after losses. It will surprise you, this team has been there every step of the way this year. Very inspiring stuff with this team this year. At times it looks bad, but I have never actually been more intrigued by this team. This team has a real shot at the World Series this year. Seeing this young outfield grow is amazing and add Devers to that mix now also.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 6, 2017 8:04:16 GMT -5
This is my perspective about the whole situation-
The Yankees basically came out with this story first because comisioner Rob Manfred was in Boston yesterday.
They wanted to go public over this non story because the Sox were threatening to go to MLB themselves with their own allegations.
Manfred has since stated that this story is between "two competitive teams looking to find an edge over one another." He also said he was "disappointed because this is usually settled between 2 GM's and doesn't usually go public."
Basically, he squashed the story since he was asked about it. The Sox may pick up a fine or something because the Yankees want redemption for Pineda cheating and getting caught years ago.
Rob Bradford even said as much when asked about the vibe Manfred gave off when he was being interviewed on the WEEI telecast last night. In fact, he didn't even think there would be punishment handed down.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 6, 2017 8:14:02 GMT -5
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Sept 6, 2017 11:20:55 GMT -5
In the long run, the more important issue is that this is another black eye in the public's mind for New England Sports. As with the IFA penalties, the general public isn't going to view it as something everyone does and we were just the ones to get punished. We're not looking good. Honestly, who cares what other people think of NE sports? I'd rather be hated and successful than some irrelevant franchise that everybody likes like the Rockies or something.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 6, 2017 11:41:01 GMT -5
LMAO people talking about firing Farrell over this.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2017 12:24:50 GMT -5
This whole thing is pretty stupid.
When I read the article originally I thought - like a lot of other people would get from initial impressions - that the Red Sox used the Apple Watch to steal signs, and that's the image the NY tabloids are exploiting, but after listening to Lou Merloni on WEEI today and reading further elsewhere, is not the case.
They were foolishly using the Apple watch to relay that information a handful of seconds quicker than if they had simply took the 15 seconds to walk over to other teammates to distribute the information they've picked up.
The Red Sox are guilty of using technology to communicate the signs they stole, not guilty of using technology to steal signs, and that's a huge difference and something that's going to get missed by all these hot take quick headline garbage.
Jon Heyman is off his rocker with his reaction and Mike Vaccaro similarly. All teams steal signs. There's no evidence that the Red Sox did so in an underhanded manner, and there's nothing wrong with stealing signs. The Red Sox need to get punished for breaking the rule about using the technology in the dugout, so a fine makes sense.
It's a dumb and lazy thing for the Red Sox to do because the image fallout is far worse than the actual crime, and there's zero evidence the Red Sox benefitted at all. Given the crappy way they've played the Yankees, I doubt any of this made any difference at all.
The only thing I hope for at this point is for the Red Sox to have something dirty on the Yankees so we don't have to hear this nauseating "morality high ground" crap.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2017 12:27:46 GMT -5
LMAO people talking about firing Farrell over this. This isn't going to get Farrell fired. Losing in the first round of the playoffs could. Farrell does look lousy in this because either he honestly didn't know about it and his players are doing something stupid behind his back rendering him clueless about what his players are doing or he did know about, lied about it, and sanctioned the Red Sox to needlessly break a rule that they really didn't need to break. Either way it's a bad look for Farrell, just like it's a bad look for the Red Sox. A lot of this is fluff over substance, but unfortunately, the image of fluff matters these days.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 6, 2017 12:29:56 GMT -5
Now apparently they claimed Fister had an earpiece, when it was his mouthpiece. Couple this with the CC bunt thing, and it is pretty obvious at least some of this is gamesmanship, intended to throw off the team they are trailing in the standings. I mean we are talking about the MFY here, they aren't honest brokers.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 6, 2017 12:30:00 GMT -5
LMAO people talking about firing Farrell over this. This isn't going to get Farrell fired. Losing in the first round of the playoffs could. Farrell does look lousy in this because either he honestly didn't know about it and his players are doing something stupid behind his back rendering him clueless about what his players are doing or he did know about, lied about it, and sanctioned the Red Sox to needlessly break a rule that they really didn't need to break. Either way it's a bad look for Farrell, just like it's a bad look for the Red Sox. A lot of this is fluff over substance, but unfortunately, the image of fluff matters these days. What can anyone do about fluff? I think we all realize how the media can slant things, especially because half the population only glances at headlines and declares what they want to believe to be the truth.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 6, 2017 12:33:47 GMT -5
This isn't going to get Farrell fired. Losing in the first round of the playoffs could. Farrell does look lousy in this because either he honestly didn't know about it and his players are doing something stupid behind his back rendering him clueless about what his players are doing or he did know about, lied about it, and sanctioned the Red Sox to needlessly break a rule that they really didn't need to break. Either way it's a bad look for Farrell, just like it's a bad look for the Red Sox. A lot of this is fluff over substance, but unfortunately, the image of fluff matters these days. No it doesn't matter. We don't even know if anyone did anything, it's still not a bad look because being accused of something doesn't mean you did it. This is not the NFL.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2017 12:46:08 GMT -5
This isn't going to get Farrell fired. Losing in the first round of the playoffs could. Farrell does look lousy in this because either he honestly didn't know about it and his players are doing something stupid behind his back rendering him clueless about what his players are doing or he did know about, lied about it, and sanctioned the Red Sox to needlessly break a rule that they really didn't need to break. Either way it's a bad look for Farrell, just like it's a bad look for the Red Sox. A lot of this is fluff over substance, but unfortunately, the image of fluff matters these days. No it doesn't matter. We don't even know if anyone did anything, it's still not a bad look because being accused of something doesn't mean you did it. This is not the NFL. I don't think that point is being questioned. Holt, Pedroia, and Young were involved with the trainer who used his apple watch to communicate information, which is a violation of MLB rules. The Red Sox aren't innocent here. It's just that the crime is hardly the crime of the century. And the main issue is that the image being sold is of the Red Sox cheating to steal signals through the use of electronic devises rather than the Red Sox stealing signals the old fashioned (and accepted) way and using electronic devises to communicate their findings (that part is against MLB rules, but the competitive advantage in doing so is negligible). A bunch of the media (particularly in NY where the who idea is to revive a dormant rivalry and promote the idea that New England's success (Pats and Sox) is based on cheating - unlike NY of course, [yeah right]) is dumbing down a lot of that to convey the former scenario than the actual latter scenario.
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Post by aboynamedkimandrew on Sept 6, 2017 13:50:16 GMT -5
No it doesn't matter. We don't even know if anyone did anything, it's still not a bad look because being accused of something doesn't mean you did it. This is not the NFL. I don't think that point is being questioned. Holt, Pedroia, and Young were involved with the trainer who used his apple watch to communicate information, which is a violation of MLB rules. The Red Sox aren't innocent here. It's just that the crime is hardly the crime of the century. And the main issue is that the image being sold is of the Red Sox cheating to steal signals through the use of electronic devises rather than the Red Sox stealing signals the old fashioned (and accepted) way and using electronic devises to communicate their findings (that part is against MLB rules, but the competitive advantage in doing so is negligible). A bunch of the media (particularly in NY where the who idea is to revive a dormant rivalry and promote the idea that New England's success (Pats and Sox) is based on cheating - unlike NY of course, [yeah right]) is dumbing down a lot of that to convey the former scenario than the actual latter scenario. Precisely. The image most people have gotten is that the Red Sox were using this to relay real-time information via the dugout to their batters. However, there's been no description of how this was supposedly done in the one second required. Most likely the trainer just informed the players what signal scheme the Yankees were using, which they could use to steal signals if they were on 2nd. They could have done the same thing using runners from the clubhouse, as the Times article admitted other teams have done (and if a NY paper is talking about other teams you can be sure the Yankees are one of them). The only benefit of the real-time relay to the dugout is that he could give them a few predictions and the players could see for themselves if the pattern played out. That's a relatively small benefit that hardly seems worth the risk but not everyone in a major league organization is a genius.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 6, 2017 20:45:49 GMT -5
Quick, somebody call the MFY a whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance.
There's no crying in baseball.
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2017 21:41:37 GMT -5
The way the Sox have been killing the ball all year it's just so obvious they must be stealing signs. Seriously. If they have been stealing signs maybe that's the problem with the offense.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 6, 2017 23:30:39 GMT -5
LOL!!!
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2017 9:44:53 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 7, 2017 9:52:55 GMT -5
Wow, that ump screwed that up. If I were the manager of a playoff team, I'd do the complicated signs as if there were a runner on 2nd every batter and switch up the indicator every inning if not more often. I stole signs all the time in high school when I was batting.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 15, 2017 15:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 15, 2017 16:08:28 GMT -5
I knew nothing was going to come of this.
Actually nothing but good came out of this because more funds are being donated to the hurricane disasters.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 15, 2017 16:31:08 GMT -5
Happy to have not lost any draft picks. Moving on...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 18:51:03 GMT -5
Red Sox and Yankees broke the same rule and yet the Yankees get fined less. How is that fair? Fine of the Yankees should be increased to that of the Red Sox because A. It's fair, and B. It helps the hurricane relief.
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Post by Addam603 on Sept 15, 2017 23:18:25 GMT -5
Red Sox and Yankees broke the same rule and yet the Yankees get fined less. How is that fair? Fine of the Yankees should be increased to that of the Red Sox because A. It's fair, and B. It helps the hurricane relief. They didn't break the same rule. Sox used apple watches to steal signs. Yanks only got hit with improper use of a dugout phone sometime last year. My guess is the league wanted this to go away so they gave both teams a slap on the wrist. Neither team cares about a small fine. MLB just wanted them to shut up.
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