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Post by jimed14 on Sept 7, 2017 14:56:07 GMT -5
Anyone else starting to believe he's a little better than anyone hoped for? From what I see, he has a lively fastball with decent velocity and a change up that is pretty nasty at times. Doesn't strike out enough hitters and doesn't get a ton of ground balls yet, but also has good control. I think he's a major league pitcher and think he has passed Hembree, Abad, and Barnes in the short term. I think I'd trade one of Barnes or Hembree this winter if a decent offer came along.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2017 15:02:03 GMT -5
Maddox walked 21 guys in 36 innings in Pawtucket this year. I wouldn't go trading anyone to make room for him quite yet.
He's an up-and-down guy, at least for now while he has options. If he grows into anything more, super.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 7, 2017 15:37:11 GMT -5
Anyone else starting to believe he's a little better than anyone hoped for? From what I see, he has a lively fastball with decent velocity and a change up that is pretty nasty at times. Doesn't strike out enough hitters and doesn't get a ton of ground balls yet, but also has good control. I think he's a major league pitcher and think he has passed Hembree, Abad, and Barnes in the short term. I think I'd trade one of Barnes or Hembree this winter if a decent offer came along. I mean its easy to look at Maddox's small sample in Boston and get a little excited (7.2IP, 5H, 0ER, 0BB, 5K). At the very least, he's responded well to his first experiences on the biggest stage, and perhaps most surprisingly, he hasn't walked anyone in his 7+ innings in Boston. That said, you point out an ok, but otherworldly K rate in the minors. The walks need to be monitored as well. There are some areas that need improvement for sure. I do however think he might have a future as the 6th or 7th man in a bullpen, and thats far more than I thought about him 2 years ago. Also, here's what Brian Bannister had to say about his stuff earlier in the year: As for trading a reliever because of him? I'd have to side with Hatfield on this one. That said, more generally speaking, relief does look like an area of incredible depth next year. Consider that we have Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Workman, Barnes, Hembree, Scott, and Ross Jr ready at the major league level with Thornburg potentially returning. Behind that, Pawtucket could feature Maddox, Taylor, Shepherd, Martin, and Buttery as the RHP with Jerez and Poyner as LHP. If there are trades that make sense then trading from our relief depth is something I'm certainly not opposed to. I question how much value someone like Hembree has on the trade market, but he is out of options, and I could be convinced that there isn't a big difference between him and some of our AAA guys.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 7, 2017 15:42:54 GMT -5
Maddox walked 21 guys in 36 innings in Pawtucket this year. I wouldn't go trading anyone to make room for him quite yet. He's an up-and-down guy, at least for now while he has options. If he grows into anything more, super. The walks in AAA seem like an anomaly compared to the rest of his minor league career. He hasn't walked a batter in 7.2 innings in the majors and looks to be hitting his spots regularly. It's not like Barnes and Joe Kelly who miss their spots by 2 feet at times to show they deserve their 10%+ walk rate. He also seems to be a guy who might limit hard contact. As I said, I'm just starting to get this vibe from him and realize it's too early to declare anything. (other than I'm not a fan of Hembree or Barnes and hope he's an upgrade on them.)
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 7, 2017 15:46:26 GMT -5
Anyone else starting to believe he's a little better than anyone hoped for? From what I see, he has a lively fastball with decent velocity and a change up that is pretty nasty at times. Doesn't strike out enough hitters and doesn't get a ton of ground balls yet, but also has good control. I think he's a major league pitcher and think he has passed Hembree, Abad, and Barnes in the short term. I think I'd trade one of Barnes or Hembree this winter if a decent offer came along. I mean its easy to look at Maddox's small sample in Boston and get a little excited (7.2IP, 5H, 0ER, 0BB, 5K). At the very least, he's responded well to his first experiences on the biggest stage, and perhaps most surprisingly, he hasn't walked anyone in his 7+ innings in Boston. That said, you point out an ok, but otherworldly K rate in the minors. The walks need to be monitored as well. There are some areas that need improvement for sure. I do however think he might have a future as the 6th or 7th man in a bullpen, and thats far more than I thought about him 2 years ago. Also, here's what Brian Bannister had to say about his stuff earlier in the year: As for trading a reliever because of him? I'd have to side with Hatfield on this one. That said, more generally speaking, relief does look like an area of incredible depth next year. Consider that we have Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Workman, Barnes, Hembree, Scott, and Ross Jr ready at the major league level with Thornburg potentially returning. Behind that, Pawtucket could feature Maddox, Taylor, Shepherd, Martin, and Buttery as the RHP with Jerez and Poyner as LHP. If there are trades that make sense then trading from our relief depth is something I'm certainly not opposed to. I question how much value someone like Hembree has on the trade market, but he is out of options, and I could be convinced that there isn't a big difference between him and some of our AAA guys. Maybe I'm finally becoming an amateur scout. I'm really excited about the bullpen depth. Anything to keep DD from trading for more relief pitchers.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2017 16:05:22 GMT -5
Maddox walked 21 guys in 36 innings in Pawtucket this year. I wouldn't go trading anyone to make room for him quite yet. He's an up-and-down guy, at least for now while he has options. If he grows into anything more, super. The walks in AAA seem like an anomaly compared to the rest of his minor league career. He hasn't walked a batter in 7.2 innings in the majors and looks to be hitting his spots regularly. It's not like Barnes and Joe Kelly who miss their spots by 2 feet at times to show they deserve their 10%+ walk rate. He also seems to be a guy who might limit hard contact. As I said, I'm just starting to get this vibe from him and realize it's too early to declare anything. (other than I'm not a fan of Hembree or Barnes and hope he's an upgrade on them.) He didn't have a good walk rate in a SSS in Portland this year nor in either Salem or Portland last year. Walk rate was a lot better in shortened seasons in 2014 and 2015, but it's not like this is some one-month blip on the radar in Pawtucket.
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Post by tonyc on Sept 7, 2017 16:38:44 GMT -5
I only got maybe one look at him and am impressed. I liked the fastball velocity and his spotting it. I liked the changeup down. I believe he got away with a couple of changeups up in the zone which were missed because of the velocity differential- that could catch up with him. I did not see him throw any breaking pitches (am pleased to see the Bannister quote that it's improving) because without any, a hitter could sometimes guess changeup.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 7, 2017 17:14:25 GMT -5
Anyone else starting to believe he's a little better than anyone hoped for? From what I see, he has a lively fastball with decent velocity and a change up that is pretty nasty at times. Doesn't strike out enough hitters and doesn't get a ton of ground balls yet, but also has good control. I think he's a major league pitcher and think he has passed Hembree, Abad, and Barnes in the short term. I think I'd trade one of Barnes or Hembree this winter if a decent offer came along. I mean its easy to look at Maddox's small sample in Boston and get a little excited (7.2IP, 5H, 0ER, 0BB, 5K). At the very least, he's responded well to his first experiences on the biggest stage, and perhaps most surprisingly, he hasn't walked anyone in his 7+ innings in Boston. That said, you point out an ok, but otherworldly K rate in the minors. The walks need to be monitored as well. There are some areas that need improvement for sure. I do however think he might have a future as the 6th or 7th man in a bullpen, and thats far more than I thought about him 2 years ago. Also, here's what Brian Bannister had to say about his stuff earlier in the year: As for trading a reliever because of him? I'd have to side with Hatfield on this one. That said, more generally speaking, relief does look like an area of incredible depth next year. Consider that we have Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Workman, Barnes, Hembree, Scott, and Ross Jr ready at the major league level with Thornburg potentially returning. Behind that, Pawtucket could feature Maddox, Taylor, Shepherd, Martin, and Buttery as the RHP with Jerez and Poyner as LHP. If there are trades that make sense then trading from our relief depth is something I'm certainly not opposed to. I question how much value someone like Hembree has on the trade market, but he is out of options, and I could be convinced that there isn't a big difference between him and some of our AAA guys. Quick POI - Jerez is a MLFA and might not stick around. I wouldn't if I were him, at least.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 7, 2017 17:28:30 GMT -5
What's the opposite of rocket science and brain surgery?
He has really good stuff and can pitch setup when he can command it, and probably can't pitch in MLB when he can't.
We don't know yet how good his command will be in the long run.
There have been other pitchers in the past who fit this description.
I do think we may have learned one thing -- he claims that he wanted to pitch in Tuesday's game, and pitched like that was true. That's a good thing.
(It does amuse me that his 0 BB in 7.2 IP in MLB, and Barnes' 5 BB in his last 7 IP, loom larger in the ordinary brain that his 12 BB in 15 IP in Pawtucket between his July and September callups, and Barnes' 6 BB in his first 22.1 IP after changing his delivery. We're hard-wired for that recency bias ... but it's important to try to factor it out.
Since June 26 (start of the new Barnes):
29.1 IP, 11 BB, 583 OPS allowed -- Barnes 26.1 IP, 14 BB, 480 OPS allowed but largely in AAA -- Maddox)
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Post by larrycook on Sept 7, 2017 20:03:44 GMT -5
I absolutely love his delivery and the movement on his fastball. I think his stuff is more than good enough to get major league hitters out.
Yes he needs better command and every once in a while he has a terrible game.
But I think he is workman 2.0 and with some experience he will be a reliable and viable late inning bullpen option,
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Post by telson13 on Sept 7, 2017 22:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 8, 2017 6:12:21 GMT -5
Yeah make him a taxi cab guy until he proves that the walk rate decreases in AAA. You're going to need the depth in AAA anyways.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 8, 2017 8:21:43 GMT -5
I had mentioned this before, but it does seem as though the sox have an abundance of relief pitchers. I would think that they must have some value. Even if you only get A and maybe AA prospects for them to help rebuild the farm system. I know that you may not get much to help the big club, but it does seem like there is some hidden wealth there.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 8, 2017 11:34:58 GMT -5
Yeah make him a taxi cab guy until he proves that the walk rate decreases in AAA. You're going to need the depth in AAA anyways. I'm already preparing for Maddox to be the better pitcher in AAA while we suffer with Hembree in the majors because we can't lose depth. It drives me crazy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 8, 2017 12:49:12 GMT -5
Yeah make him a taxi cab guy until he proves that the walk rate decreases in AAA. You're going to need the depth in AAA anyways. I'm already preparing for Maddox to be the better pitcher in AAA while we suffer with Hembree in the majors because we can't lose depth. It drives me crazy. You can prepare but unless those walks decrease all you'd be doing is watch him walk guys in Boston which doesn't help. If he lowers those walks in AAA, then yeah, time for Hembree to look over his shoulder. As it is, injuries have a way of resolving these types of issues anyways.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 8, 2017 19:11:05 GMT -5
I'm already preparing for Maddox to be the better pitcher in AAA while we suffer with Hembree in the majors because we can't lose depth. It drives me crazy. You can prepare but unless those walks decrease all you'd be doing is watch him walk guys in Boston which doesn't help. If he lowers those walks in AAA, then yeah, time for Hembree to look over his shoulder. As it is, injuries have a way of resolving these types of issues anyways. He's done a good job giving up 0 walks in 7.2 IP. Already lowering them.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 8, 2017 20:19:59 GMT -5
You can prepare but unless those walks decrease all you'd be doing is watch him walk guys in Boston which doesn't help. If he lowers those walks in AAA, then yeah, time for Hembree to look over his shoulder. As it is, injuries have a way of resolving these types of issues anyways. He's done a good job giving up 0 walks in 7.2 IP. Already lowering them. . SSS But I do like what I've seen so far. That was a crucial game against Toronto - he needed to pitch well and they needed to win that game and he was fantastic. He wasn't pitching like a guy thrown into the game out of desperation.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 8, 2017 21:27:20 GMT -5
Maddox walked 21 guys in 36 innings in Pawtucket this year. I wouldn't go trading anyone to make room for him quite yet. He's an up-and-down guy, at least for now while he has options. If he grows into anything more, super. Can we now say he's walked 21 guys in 45.1 innings in Pawtucket and Boston this year? Trending in the right direction. He threw 19 pitches, 15 strikes tonight. He does not look like a guy with control trouble. He was up 6 and knew he had to throw strikes and did, unlike Joe Kelly.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 8, 2017 21:30:40 GMT -5
If Maddox keeps throwing scoreless innings, it's not inconceivable to see him on the playoff roster this year.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 8, 2017 22:35:22 GMT -5
Tonight he pitched 1.2 innings and still no walks.
If he keeps throwing well through the rest of the year, then he deserves a chance to make the roster next April.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 12, 2017 21:19:31 GMT -5
16 pitches, 13 strikes tonight. Now 10.2 innings without a walk. Nice strikeout with the bases loaded too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 12, 2017 23:55:24 GMT -5
16 pitches, 13 strikes tonight. Now 10.2 innings without a walk. Nice strikeout with the bases loaded too. Very impressive thus far and I'd think he's now being seriously considered for a spot, although he might not get it, but he's certainly making his case. I'm trying to figure out how he can be more impressive in the majors than he was in the minors.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 13, 2017 17:18:13 GMT -5
16 pitches, 13 strikes tonight. Now 10.2 innings without a walk. Nice strikeout with the bases loaded too. Very impressive thus far and I'd think he's now being seriously considered for a spot, although he might not get it, but he's certainly making his case. I'm trying to figure out how he can be more impressive in the majors than he was in the minors. Challenging hitters. Trusting his stuff...might help w the control issues. Idk either, but he's always had very good stuff, except his ill-fated rotation experiment year.
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