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Non-Red Sox Divisional Series Gameday Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 22:29:28 GMT -5
Game, set, and match. Looks like the Yankees are advancing. But the Sox are the AL East Champions. What an empty division title that turned out to be.
What a day. Yankees advance to ALCS. Red Sox fire their manager.
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Post by sportnik on Oct 11, 2017 22:29:54 GMT -5
Gardner with an at bat for the ages.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 11, 2017 22:30:38 GMT -5
That was a fairly predictable outcome, Allen didn't have absolutely anything after Hicks.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 11, 2017 22:35:25 GMT -5
Tito has now lost 6 straight elimination games
(3-1 WS blown last year) and a 2-0 series lead this year...
His star is not so bright anymore
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 11, 2017 22:45:35 GMT -5
Interesting stat. Of the 23 100 game teams in the wildcard era, only 3 have won the world series.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 22:46:57 GMT -5
Where is Rajai Davis when you really need him?
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 11, 2017 22:48:20 GMT -5
Yikes Tito
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 22:48:23 GMT -5
Well that sucked!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 11, 2017 22:48:43 GMT -5
Tito has now lost 6 straight elimination games (3-1 WS blown last year) and a 2-0 series lead this year... His star is not so bright anymore On the plus side, Girardi will not likely be fired now.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 11, 2017 22:49:03 GMT -5
Interesting stat. Of the 23 100 game teams in the wildcard era, only 3 have won the world series. That's what happens when you set up a playoff system that makes sure that the incredibly long regular season doesn't matter. 88-win teams having the same chance as a 103-win team is a feature, not a bug of a system that's in place to "create excitement" rather than make sure the best team wins. And, of course, the 2004 Red Sox never happen without it.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 11, 2017 22:49:27 GMT -5
Ugh. Even setting aside all Yankee hatred, I so wanted to see a Houston-Cleveland series.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Oct 11, 2017 22:51:47 GMT -5
Incredible how the MFYs rebuilt that team so fast to contend.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 22:56:31 GMT -5
Incredible how the MFYs rebuilt that team so fast to contend. And it gets scarier when you consider that they haven't even really reaped the rewards of those two brilliant trades they made at last year's deadline. Eventually Torres will wind up being in the lineup at some point next year and Clint Frazier will eventually make his impact, although I still think he could be a player that could be dangled in a package for Stanton. And they have all of those expiring contracts coming off the books this offseason so they should have the money to go crazy after the 2018 offseason. They are in excellent shape going forward.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 11, 2017 22:57:25 GMT -5
mea culpa. The only positive out of this is i get to see them lose in either the ALCS, or, god forbid, the WS.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 23:02:17 GMT -5
Interesting stat. Of the 23 100 game teams in the wildcard era, only 3 have won the world series. That's what happens when you set up a playoff system that makes sure that the incredibly long regular season doesn't matter. 88-win teams having the same chance as a 103-win team is a feature, not a bug of a system that's in place to "create excitement" rather than make sure the best team wins. And, of course, the 2004 Red Sox never happen without it. In a weird way there was a little bit of reversal from 2004. The Yankees finished 3 games ahead of the Red Sox in 04, but the Red Sox actually did have the better team, at least according to the Pythag record and it was even that close. The Yankees wound up with nothing but an empty division title while the Sox wound up with something a helluva lot better. In 2017 the Red Sox did everything in their power to hold onto the division by a couple of games, but the Yankees actually had the better team, and now here we are, the Red Sox are gone, their manager is gone, the 2017 division title feels very empty, and the Yankees are moving on to the ALCS. It's weird, but if the Twins hadn't blown the the Wild Card game the division title wouldn't have felt as empty even if the Sox had lost to Houston, but with the Yankees still alive and doing well, and enjoying an 0-2 comeback of their own (against Francona), the division title feels meaningless, even though that is the ultimate goal of the regular season. I mean, you build a team to try to win the division title, and be the best team, rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle. So what can you do?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 11, 2017 23:07:05 GMT -5
In a weird way there was a little bit of reversal from 2004. The Yankees finished 3 games ahead of the Red Sox in 04, but the Red Sox actually did have the better team, at least according to the Pythag record and it was even that close. The Yankees wound up with nothing but an empty division title while the Sox wound up with something a helluva lot better. In 2017 the Red Sox did everything in their power to hold onto the division by a couple of games, but the Yankees actually had the better team, and now here we are, the Red Sox are gone, their manager is gone, the 2017 division title feels very empty, and the Yankees are moving on to the ALCS. It's weird, but if the Twins hadn't blown the the Wild Card game the division title wouldn't have felt as empty even if the Sox had lost to Houston, but with the Yankees still alive and doing well, and enjoying an 0-2 comeback of their own (against Francona), the division title feels meaningless, even though that is the ultimate goal of the regular season. I mean, you build a team to try to win the division title, and be the best team, rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle. So what can you do? Part of this is on the Indians not being able to close out the ALDS. It isn't all on Yankee prowess. I have to give you more credit than I have been doing, but I don't feel like a division title feels empty. Respectfully, Pythag is only one indicator. A division title is something to be very pround of...it takes 162 games to claim one.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 23:07:43 GMT -5
mea culpa. The only positive out of this is i get to see them lose in either the ALCS, or, god forbid, the WS. You (and I and everybody on this board) hope we get to see them lose, but there is a possibility that doesn't happen. They are a good team and they're playing rather well. They could have let that first inning against Minnesota turn into a 5 run inning, or they could have simply been buried by the 3 run start, but they didn't let it deter them. They had a brutal loss in Game 2, and that could have finished them, but instead they responded by winning 3 straight and knocking out Kluber again. They're a very good and tough team, and they don't go down easy. They have a good mix of hitting and pitching. I like their pen better than Houston's, and I think they will hit Houston's pitching. Houston is going to have to hang onto the leads they get to win because if they fall behind they'll be in trouble. Chapman is back on his game and Robertson has been a godsend to them, especially with Betances becoming the mess that Chapman had been. My gut is telling me that we're going to see a NY/LA matchup in the series, but we'll see what happens. I'd much rather have a Houston/Washington matchup.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 11, 2017 23:14:38 GMT -5
In a weird way there was a little bit of reversal from 2004. The Yankees finished 3 games ahead of the Red Sox in 04, but the Red Sox actually did have the better team, at least according to the Pythag record and it was even that close. The Yankees wound up with nothing but an empty division title while the Sox wound up with something a helluva lot better. In 2017 the Red Sox did everything in their power to hold onto the division by a couple of games, but the Yankees actually had the better team, and now here we are, the Red Sox are gone, their manager is gone, the 2017 division title feels very empty, and the Yankees are moving on to the ALCS. It's weird, but if the Twins hadn't blown the the Wild Card game the division title wouldn't have felt as empty even if the Sox had lost to Houston, but with the Yankees still alive and doing well, and enjoying an 0-2 comeback of their own (against Francona), the division title feels meaningless, even though that is the ultimate goal of the regular season. I mean, you build a team to try to win the division title, and be the best team, rather than trying to catch lightning in a bottle. So what can you do? Part of this is on the Indians not being able to close out the ALDS. It isn't all on Yankee prowess. I have to give you more credit than I have been doing, but I don't feel like a division title feels empty. Respectfully, Pythag is only one indicator. A division title is something to be very pround of...it takes 162 games to claim one. I hear you, but apparently Dombrowski disagrees. It wasn't enough to save Farrell's job. I'm still not quite used to this playoff format. I'm from the era of 2 division in each league, and the ALCS/NLCS and World Series. Finishing 1st is the instinctual thing for me, but honestly being a wild card only matters if you get knocked out of the Wild Card game. Otherwise if you win that 1 game, you have as much shot as anybody else. The division title is nice, but I doubt you'll hear many Yankees fans talking of their 2004 division title with any pride. It's a different game now. I need to remind myself it's not the end of the world if they don't finish 1st next year, because I seemed to forget that this September and now feel silly for not realizing it, because at the end of the day, it's how you play in the post-season that really matters and what's remembered. At the end of the day nobody remembers the division titles anymore. That's more of a reaction from the way I grew up watching baseball, as opposed to the new reality of today's playoff format.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 11, 2017 23:23:50 GMT -5
That NYY comeback was what the Sox were supposed to do, but they blew game 4.
Only positive was getting to watch Judge have a historically awful series.
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Post by jmei on Oct 12, 2017 7:08:36 GMT -5
Winning the division just about doubles your World Series odds. That's a very, very tangible reward.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 12, 2017 7:14:56 GMT -5
Winning the division just about doubles your World Series odds. That's a very, very tangible reward. True, but that's all it is - odds. It puts the pressure on that one game and you don't get HFA, not that the Red Sox did anyways. You still have to win your games. And in 2017 it ultimately meant very little to the Red Sox and Yankees. Which is something I have to do a better job of keeping in mind next season if there's a hotly contested division race.
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Post by patford on Oct 12, 2017 8:02:20 GMT -5
Tito has now lost 6 straight elimination games (3-1 WS blown last year) and a 2-0 series lead this year... His star is not so bright anymore If he were still the Sox manager 90% of Sox fans would be screaming for his head.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 12, 2017 8:04:34 GMT -5
Wake me up when the Yankees win their 2nd WS since 2001. I just don't care that much about them anymore and I certainly don't have an inferiority complex about them enough to write novels about it. The Red Sox can't win every year, but they certainly win a lot more than the Yankees. No matter what happens, we always have 2004 and they will never return the favor. Not even close.
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Post by patford on Oct 12, 2017 8:06:15 GMT -5
Ultimately a team is playing to win the championship. Everything short of that is failure. At least that's what Larry Bird would say.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 12, 2017 8:06:20 GMT -5
As a Red Sox fan from the DC area who also roots for the Washington Capitals, I can tell you that I have resentful feelings about the skewed emphasis that is placed on playoff success. Regular season success is so much more predictive of the quality of your team than playoff success, yet it doesn't get the recognition it deserves, because the "thing that matters" is waving a trophy around at the end of the proceedings.
I have trophies in a few different endeavors sitting around in my basement. My wife hates them -- they are notorious dust collectors.
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