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Farrell Fired + New Manager Search
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 24, 2017 10:33:38 GMT -5
Remember this, no Red Sox manager has ever quit. They all got fired at some point. Whether or not this is true (it isn't, even looking only at the modern game with the Houk retirement just mentioned), what's your point? Wouldn't this be true for the vast majority of managers?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 24, 2017 12:35:57 GMT -5
I think Joe McCarthy quit part way thru the 1950 season. I think it came after one of his benders. I don't think the Red Sox fired him. Midway through the 1976 season Darrell Johnson, who was also drinking heavily, was considering quitting, but instead he did get fired. Ralph Houk, then 65, retired as manager at the conclusion of the 1984 season. He never managed again, although he did work in the Twins' front office under Andy MacPhail after he left the Red Sox. Jeez, I was thinking of managers who literally quit - I didn't think of managers who retired, and you're totally correct, Ralph Houk retired. As a matter of fact, Houk was never fired from any manager jobs he had. I think he was promoted to the front office on the two occasions he managed the Yankees, and he retired from the Tigers, and then unretired to become Red Sox manager for four years before retiring from managing for good. I liked Houk as a manager. He was definitely old school, but that's what it was back then. Those Houk teams in 81 and 82 weren't so good, but they had strong bullpens, clutch hitting from Dwight Evans, Jim Rice, and 3b who could hit. The 83 team was a mess, but he left them in great shape in 84 when the team's pitching was really young and promising and they had a strong lineup by that point.
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Post by danredhawk on Oct 24, 2017 12:55:45 GMT -5
What will the chronic DD complainers do? Dombrowski has already basically done all the damage he can at this point (weak farm and little cap space). And I'd say most of the credit for the Cora signing goes to the press and Red Sox Nation which made it pretty impossible for DD to go with anyone else as manager. LOL
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Post by jamesmcgillstatue on Oct 24, 2017 13:08:44 GMT -5
It's an interesting, if tangential, discussion. In the non-fired category, with Houk: Two post-World War II Red Sox managers were both promoted from the dugout to the head of the front office when Joe Cronin (after 1947) and Mike Higgins (after 1962) became general manager of the team. (Higgins had been fired in July 1959, however, and replaced by Billy Jurges; he served in the Sox' front office from July 1959 until June 1960, when he went back to the dugout as Jurges' permanent successor.) Of course, neither man was a success as general manager; Cronin allowed the mid to late 1950s team to badly deteriorate, and the best thing Higgins did in his three years as GM was not interfere with Neil Mahoney's farm system. I recall reading in Al Hirshberg's mid-1970s book "What's the Matter With the Red Sox?" and in Peter Golenbock's early-1990s "Fenway" that Joe McCarthy was more-or-less fired in June 1950 because of his bouts of drinking, which had gotten more frequent and more severe. McCarthy's resignation was seen as a face-saving gesture.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 24, 2017 14:19:11 GMT -5
What will the chronic DD complainers do? Dombrowski has already basically done all the damage he can at this point (weak farm and little cap space). And I'd say most of the credit for the Cora signing goes to the press and Red Sox Nation which made it pretty impossible for DD to go with anyone else as manager. This is either epic sarcasm or you need to remind us who signed Panda, Hanley, Porcello, and Castillo and traded for Allen Craig?
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Post by soxfando on Oct 24, 2017 16:10:11 GMT -5
I don't think he cared a wit about what you or I or anyone thought. Cora has been on. Lot of people's radar for manager. As far as the rest, it has been pointed out why he sold the farm, to win now. You can disagree with that philosophy, I am conflicted by that also, but he had a mandate to stop finishing in last place. That is pretty clear to me. That the credit for a Cora hiring goes to the press and RS Nation is one of the worst takes ever. Seriously? You actually think DD cares what the press and the fans think? Also, the lack of salary flexibility has more to do with Cherrington than does with DD. Maybe some Lucchino fault in there, too, if you want to go back to the Lester negotiations and the path that failure set the Sox on. Actually, DD helped the cap space by trading for Sale. He's one of the better values in baseball. Would have been extremely bad optics for DD to go with someone else, considering the media/social media environment regarding Cora. Going with Gardenhire or Ausmus would have brought a ton of "reallllly?s and omgs" and major criticism every time either of them made a mistake, not to mention would have disappointed all of Red Sox Nation. Cora became the clear and only choice thanks to all of us here, and in the media. Some credit due for getting it done, but if the Red Sox was Cora's first choice, the deal was already done. And it could be Cora was DD's first choice too, in which case great. And I'm not saying Red Sox Nation necessarily picked Cora initially, but it certainly made clear that he was the best option once his name was floated about. The Sale trade wasn't some stroke of genius. If stars on rebuilding clubs become available for trade, generally consensus #1 prospects in baseball will get it done. Little did he anticipate that he was also trading away the #1 pitching prospect in baseball.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 25, 2017 9:24:48 GMT -5
Moved a bunch of posts that had nothing to do with the manager to the appropriate thread.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 25, 2017 13:45:15 GMT -5
ADD: Bones served as pitching coach for Puerto Rico's WBC team both this year and in 2013.
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Post by artfuldodger on Oct 25, 2017 20:23:56 GMT -5
Ricky Bones was in the Mitchell Report for taking PRD’s. It would be a factor in bringing him in.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 26, 2017 9:02:51 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 26, 2017 9:52:02 GMT -5
Girardi won't be back with the same team next year either.
Apparently Farrell is interviewing in Phily.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 26, 2017 9:56:01 GMT -5
Lucky Carl, landing a gig with such an outstanding staff as Cleveland.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 26, 2017 9:58:54 GMT -5
Lucky Carl, landing a gig with such an outstanding staff as Cleveland. Willis did a great job as Red Sox pitching coach. Every success during his time here was credited to Bannister, which always seemed totally unfair to me. Willis was doing the day-to-day work with Pomeranz and the bullpen, both which exceeded expectations this year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 26, 2017 10:04:27 GMT -5
Lucky Carl, landing a gig with such an outstanding staff as Cleveland. Willis did a great job as Red Sox pitching coach. Every success during his time here was credited to Bannister, which always seemed totally unfair to me. Willis was doing the day-to-day work with Pomeranz and the bullpen, both which exceeded expectations this year. Ok but have you considered that Bannister is a wizard and Willis is the only reason that Joe Kelly isn’t an ace?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 26, 2017 10:15:55 GMT -5
Pete AbrahamVerified account @peteabe 19m19 minutes ago More Headed over to church to light every candle and pray for A-Rod to be named manager of the Yankees.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 26, 2017 10:19:28 GMT -5
Pete AbrahamVerified account @peteabe 19m19 minutes ago More Headed over to church to light every candle and pray for A-Rod to be named manager of the Yankees. I'm worried he'd be good at it. He knows the spotlight and he can deflect the BS away from the players. And he's smart. Anyway, I don't necessarily think Girardi was a particularly good manager. But I think that team overachieved this year and is going to have unreasonable expectations heading in to 2018. If Judge and Severino are good rather than great and that team goes 85-77, it's going to be brutal on whoever they bring in.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 26, 2017 10:19:29 GMT -5
Willis did a great job as Red Sox pitching coach. Every success during his time here was credited to Bannister, which always seemed totally unfair to me. Willis was doing the day-to-day work with Pomeranz and the bullpen, both which exceeded expectations this year. Ok but have you considered that Bannister is a wizard and Willis is the only reason that Joe Kelly isn’t an ace? Willis is the only pitching coach in history to oversee three different Cy Young winners. That said, I always found it strange that Dustin Pedroia would be the one to spot something in David Price's delivery last year. I'm pretty sure any pitching coach we hire will need to work with Bannister.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 26, 2017 10:21:16 GMT -5
Pete AbrahamVerified account @peteabe 19m19 minutes ago More Headed over to church to light every candle and pray for A-Rod to be named manager of the Yankees. I'm worried he'd be good at it. He knows the spotlight and he can deflect the BS away from the players. And he's smart. Anyway, I don't necessarily think Girardi was a particularly good manager. But I think that team overachieved this year and is going to have unreasonable expectations heading in to 2018. If Judge and Severino are good rather than great and that team goes 85-77, it's going to be brutal on whoever they bring in. The biggest surprise for me was Gregorius. It'll be interesting to see if it's real but it sure appears to be.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 26, 2017 10:28:48 GMT -5
I'm worried he'd be good at it. He knows the spotlight and he can deflect the BS away from the players. And he's smart. Anyway, I don't necessarily think Girardi was a particularly good manager. But I think that team overachieved this year and is going to have unreasonable expectations heading in to 2018. If Judge and Severino are good rather than great and that team goes 85-77, it's going to be brutal on whoever they bring in. The biggest surprise for me was Gregorius. It'll be interesting to see if it's real but it sure appears to be. I've like Gregorius for awhile, but yes, that's another one. Starlin Castro, Aaron Hicks... a ton of guys seemed to play over their heads this year. Just with normal regression the new guy is walking into a tough spot.
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Post by 07redsox on Oct 26, 2017 10:47:19 GMT -5
Ok but have you considered that Bannister is a wizard and Willis is the only reason that Joe Kelly isn’t an ace? Willis is the only pitching coach in history to oversee three different Cy Young winners. That said, I always found it strange that Dustin Pedroia would be the one to spot something in David Price's delivery last year. I'm pretty sure any pitching coach we hire will need to work with Bannister. Actually I believe it's four for Willis: Sabathia, Lee, Hernandez, and Porcello.
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Post by cotuitfan on Oct 26, 2017 12:23:22 GMT -5
Breaking - Cubs hire Butterfield and Chili Davis - going to miss Butter - I know the third base coach stuff was often tough, but positive presence, both men
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 26, 2017 13:49:35 GMT -5
For anyone hoping for Mike Maddux as pitching coach, looks like he is going to the Cardinals, per Rosenthal.
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Post by jbuttah on Oct 26, 2017 13:54:40 GMT -5
For anyone hoping for Mike Maddux as pitching coach, looks like he is going to the Cardinals, per Rosenthal. I'm all in on Hickey, if only because of his prior experience working with Price.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 26, 2017 14:18:17 GMT -5
Breaking - Cubs hire Butterfield and Chili Davis - going to miss Butter - I know the third base coach stuff was often tough, but positive presence, both men I'm personally glad all the coaches are gone. Butterfield was a lot like "wave them home Wendel Kim" and the Sox hitting approach has been awful for a while now. It was time to clean house.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 26, 2017 14:37:10 GMT -5
Breaking - Cubs hire Butterfield and Chili Davis - going to miss Butter - I know the third base coach stuff was often tough, but positive presence, both men I'm personally glad all the coaches are gone. Butterfield was a lot like "wave them home Wendel Kim" and the Sox hitting approach has been awful for a while now. It was time to clean house. Was their hitting approach awful last year when they led the league in runs, BA, OBP, and SLG?
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