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Brentz, Jerez added to roster + other moves
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 2, 2017 10:09:12 GMT -5
Sox outrighted Robbie Ross Jr. and Josh Rutledge. Also added Brentz to the 40 man
Why the hell they didn't just use Brentz in September, I have no idea
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 2, 2017 10:15:57 GMT -5
Sox outrighted Robbie Ross Jr. and Josh Rutledge. Also added Brentz to the 40 man Why the hell they didn't just use Brentz in September, I have no ideaI'm getting increasingly worried that the answer to this question is "because they're kind of dumb." The Red Sox seem to be turning increasingly into the 2005-ish era Yankees, who had a great core that they wasted by making consistently dumb decisions at the periphery of the roster.
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Post by jmei on Nov 2, 2017 10:17:48 GMT -5
At least they added Brentz. Small victories and all that.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 2, 2017 10:20:24 GMT -5
· The club exercised its 2018 contract options on right-handed pitcher Craig Kimbrel and left-handed pitcher Chris Sale. · Infielder Marco Hernandez and right-handed pitchers Tyler Thornburg and Steven Wright were reinstated from the 60-day disabled list. Additionally, left-handed pitcher Robbie Ross Jr. and infielder Josh Rutledge were reinstated from the 60-day disabled list and outrighted from the major league roster. They have both elected free agency. Outfielder Bryce Brentz and left-handed pitcher Williams Jerez were selected to the major league roster from Triple-A Pawtucket.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 2, 2017 10:25:09 GMT -5
It's also not a major move, but I've always been impressed by Ross, and I think he would be even more valuable if more teams really do start to move toward using a couple of their relievers for longer, less frequent appearances (rather than all as one-inning types). But given the money involved and the health questions I don't have a problem with it. Guessing he gets a minor league deal somewhere to work himself back next season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 2, 2017 10:31:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think this necessarily means they're not interested in Ross, but it made sense to do this given the arbitration situation.
Press release has 40-man at 37. That's Young, Abad, Moreland, Boyer, Fister, Nunez, Davis, Reed off (40-8=32), plus Hernandez, Wright, Thornburg (35), plus Brentz and Jerez (37).
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Post by basbal24 on Nov 2, 2017 11:18:41 GMT -5
jerez was a surprise as other Rp passed him & didn't see great Improvment
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 2, 2017 11:20:25 GMT -5
So does this add to the speculation that indeed Farrell was the one who didn't want to utilize Brentz I imagine?
Dombrowski clearly wants him here for his value alone.
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Post by ramireja on Nov 2, 2017 11:25:54 GMT -5
Sox outrighted Robbie Ross Jr. and Josh Rutledge. Also added Brentz to the 40 man Why the hell they didn't just use Brentz in September, I have no ideaI'm getting increasingly worried that the answer to this question is "because they're kind of dumb." The Red Sox seem to be turning increasingly into the 2005-ish era Yankees, who had a great core that they wasted by making consistently dumb decisions at the periphery of the roster. I'm not sure I agree with this in full. I definitely understand the confusion as to why Brentz didn't get a shot in September, but his addition now has me more inclined to buy into the theory that Farrell was adamant that he wouldn't give away Chris Young's PAs to Brentz down the stretch. In terms of the peripheral roster moves overall, it frustrates me when a big market team feels the need to constantly plug in outside options instead of giving internal org guys a chance. That really wasn't the case this year as guys like Lin, Marrero, Maddox, Taylor, Workman, Johnson, Velazquez, Scott, and Travis all got opportunities, and many of those decisions paid off. Aside from Brentz, which we're all fixated on currently, I was actually very happy with the peripheral roster moves this year.
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Post by ramireja on Nov 2, 2017 11:36:00 GMT -5
jerez was a surprise as other Rp passed him & didn't see great Improvment Velo was up this year to mid-upper 90s with a solid secondary pitch. Its an interesting profile from the left side, worth keeping him around another year as one of the top LH relief options in AAA. It didn't necessarily show in his stat line, but he was solid down the stretch. Had a disastrous appearance (8 ER in 1.1 IP) in early June that skewed his numbers overall.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 2, 2017 11:46:39 GMT -5
Keep in mind that this is to prevent Brentz and Jerez from becoming minor league free agents. The lack of downside to this is you can easily just DFA one of them if you need the roster spot down the line, even later this offseason.
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Post by jmei on Nov 2, 2017 11:47:41 GMT -5
The reason Jerez was added now is that otherwise he would have been a minor league free agent in four days. They may well end up DFAing him sometime this offseason once they start protecting Rule 5 candidates and signing free agents, but there's a good chance that they would have lost him in free agency anyways.
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Post by Coreno on Nov 2, 2017 12:07:15 GMT -5
I love that the Brentz move finally happened on Tony La Russa's first day on the job. It has me imagining TLR coming into work, overlooking the system roster and pointing out the obvious September flub, instead of this being the plan all along.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 2, 2017 12:21:13 GMT -5
I love that the Brentz move finally happened on Tony La Russa's first day on the job. It has me imagining TLR coming into work, overlooking the system roster and pointing out the obvious September flub, instead of this being the plan all along. Hah! If so then I take back most of the bad things I said about him. Can you imagine though? "Yeah.... did you forget to call up Brentz? Well, that wasn't a great move, but you should probably do that now because he'll be a free agent Monday." In all seriousness, Brentz *does* seem like a guy who would've done well under LaRussa. His best skill as a manager (other than continuing to employ Dave Duncan) was getting the most out of flawed players by putting them in positions to succeed.
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Post by danredhawk on Nov 2, 2017 13:25:48 GMT -5
Lol at the posters who were actively crucifying DD, in advance, because they were certain he was going to let Brentz walk getting more upset about getting what they wanted. I mean kudos for the great spin and remaining angry at the guy you never wanted hired and will never credit as a result. Certainly being happy or admitting you were wrong is never an option...
DD just stated in a press conference that Brentz wasn't activated in September because, 'there weren't opportunities for playing time.' That is as clear as a professional can get in stating that my manager wasn't going to use him over other preferred pieces (young), without outright throwing him under the bus. There is even more evidence to this point when said manager (and his long history of catering to veterans) is fired and replaced with another who has a proven history of working well with (and is beloved by) young players. Sorry guys, but a GM needs to build rosters his manager will use and none of you were the manager. DD wanted to build differently, so he got a new manager and did so. Oh wait, I forgot that wasn't DD it was the media and fans who chose Cora. Perhaps take a moment and pat yourself on the back - your probably the reason he added Brentz, too...!!
Everyone wants Cora and is certain DD is going to hire Gardenhire. He hires Cora and no one wants to give him credit or assumes he did it for the wrong reasons. Everyone is certain he's going to give away Brentz for nothing and he keeps him and no one wants to give him any credit. Add that to all the posters here who'd rather be bad with a chance to maybe be good down the road than competitive now knowing it may not last forever and this place can be downright laughable at times...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 2, 2017 14:34:49 GMT -5
Dan, I think the point those who thought Brentz should be called up would make is that there absolutely WERE opportunities to get playing time. The team needed someone to hit LHP and needed pop. Those were the two things Brentz could have absolutely provided at little-to-no cost.
At the time, he also said there wasn't room on the 40-man, but that's if you think it was worth having Ben Taylor make three inconsequential appearances in Pawtucket, rather than going on the 60-day DL, is worth more than adding Brentz to the roster.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 2, 2017 14:36:54 GMT -5
If Farrell wasn't going to play Brentz last September, then there is no reason to add him.
I think it's fair to blame Farrell now for the non September call up last season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 2, 2017 14:38:35 GMT -5
What's the downside to adding him to the roster if he's not going to play though? He's not going to complain about it - the alternative is his NOT being added to the roster.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 2, 2017 14:45:29 GMT -5
Instead of Farrell not being willing to play Brentz in September and Dombrowski playing along, I wonder if Cora specifically wanted Brentz and asked if he could be added.
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Post by danredhawk on Nov 2, 2017 15:00:22 GMT -5
Dan, I think the point those who thought Brentz should be called up would make is that there absolutely WERE opportunities to get playing time. The team needed someone to hit LHP and needed pop. Those were the two things Brentz could have absolutely provided at little-to-no cost. At the time, he also said there wasn't room on the 40-man, but that's if you think it was worth having Ben Taylor make three inconsequential appearances in Pawtucket, rather than going on the 60-day DL, is worth more than adding Brentz to the roster. Yes, there were opportunities for playing time in many people's opinion. But not in the managers opinion. In the managers opinion, Chris Young was the player who would provide pop and hit LHP, because he was a veteran who 'always' had. If that's what Farrel is going to do - what is DD's best move? Give his manager as many useful options that he'll actually use or add a piece he doesn't want to...make a point? Prove to Sox prospects it's John and not him? Create a distraction? When DD came out in his press conference today and said 'there weren't opportunities AVAILABLE for playing time', that is him telling us Farrell wasn't going to play him. No matter what DD, you, I or anyone else thinks Brentz' role could have been, only one opinion mattered. And that opinion disagreed. In the end DD fired the manager who wouldn't use Brentz, hired someone who would and brought him up. People should be praising that, based on their previous views of the situation, but they'd rather rationalize the decision as a way to reinforce the opinion they formed two years ago...
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Post by danredhawk on Nov 2, 2017 15:07:07 GMT -5
Instead of Farrell not being willing to play Brentz in September and Dombrowski playing along, I wonder if Cora specifically wanted Brentz and asked if he could be added. This is some real, I hate DD and want to give anyone else the credit mental gymnastics right here. I think Cora had bigger concerns the last couple weeks than his potential fourth or fifth OF...
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 2, 2017 15:12:35 GMT -5
Sox outrighted Robbie Ross Jr. and Josh Rutledge. Also added Brentz to the 40 man Why the hell they didn't just use Brentz in September, I have no ideaI'm getting increasingly worried that the answer to this question is "because they're kind of dumb." The Red Sox seem to be turning increasingly into the 2005-ish era Yankees, who had a great core that they wasted by making consistently dumb decisions at the periphery of the roster. I laid out what I thought was the reason Brentz was not on the team in September, more than once, in probably too much detail, and correctly predicted that they weren't dumb enough to let him go for nothing. If John Farrell told them that Brentz would get little or no PT if selected, then not selecting him was the proper, smart move. No one has ever come up with a different first clause for that "if-then" statement. And JF telling them that is, furthermore, 100% consistent with his being fired because of unspecified larger, older, deeper issues than losing in the playoffs. JF's consistent weakness was his favoring the desires of his players over the best interests of both themselves and the team. I'm not saying that favoring Young over Brentz was a big part of that -- his letting Sale go after his 300th K in defiance of an apparent team decision to go easy on his usage was probably bigger. But it's part of the pattern. Brentz has a chance to fill the Chris Young role but be much better and at MLB minimum. I think he gets a crack at that in many or most roster scenarios. Meanwhile, adding Jerez is interesting. One correct take has already been discussed -- adding him now before he hits mlfa is smart, and you can DFA him later if needed. But it's worth playing with thee roster math to see what it tells us. They had 36 without him, with Beeks and a new 1B as the only sure additions. But I also think that Hembree is likely to be moved -- someone with less relief depth will want him because he's precisely the sort of guy who can blossom and become a set-up guy, but for us he's behind Barnes, Workman, and Maddox who only have two roster spots between them when everyone is healthy. So that leaves 3 roster spots for the following: -- Maybe a second hitter, as in my Martinez / Stanton + Bour scenarios, or re-signing Nunez as some have suggested. -- Maybe a LHR who can pitch in the 7th. -- One or more relievers. Jerez has filled one of those spots. If they protect Shepherd but not Buttrey (or vice versa), then Jerez survives unless they add both the second hitter and LHR without dealing anyone off the 40-man.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 2, 2017 15:15:32 GMT -5
Instead of Farrell not being willing to play Brentz in September and Dombrowski playing along, I wonder if Cora specifically wanted Brentz and asked if he could be added. This is some real, I hate DD and want to give anyone else the credit mental gymnastics right here. I think Cora had bigger concerns the last couple weeks than his potential fourth or fifth OF... What are you even talking about? To give Dombrowski credit for adding him now, then it means he would deserve even more blame for not adding him on 9/1 when he offered a skill set that the team needed at the time for no cost at all. But if Dombrowski was generally ambivalent toward Brentz, and Cora wanted him specifically? Yeah, that timeline adds up then and makes everything a lot more rational.
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Post by danredhawk on Nov 2, 2017 15:22:26 GMT -5
This is some real, I hate DD and want to give anyone else the credit mental gymnastics right here. I think Cora had bigger concerns the last couple weeks than his potential fourth or fifth OF... What are you even talking about? To give Dombrowski credit for adding him now, then it means he would deserve even more blame for not adding him on 9/1 when he offered a skill set that the team needed at the time for no cost at all. But if Dombrowski was generally ambivalent toward Brentz, and Cora wanted him specifically? Yeah, that timeline adds up then and makes everything a lot more rational. My points are pretty clear (and essentially spoken by DD today) - unless you just don't want to get them. Brentz was NOT going to be played by Farrell. So in the stretch run DD gave his manager what he wanted and felt he needed to succeed. You would rather he grandstanded on a fourth OF and bat off the bench? That's definitely a successful approach to management and a turn on to future managers! When the time came - he fired the manager, added the player and got a better suited leader for the team. You refuse to accept that because you want to hate DD for not valuing 20 year olds the way you do. Now you still don't want to give him credit so you attribute it to the new manager who was coaching his old team in the playoffs and consuming his free time trying to put a staff together. This is not Cora telling DD to add Brentz. Give me a break...
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 2, 2017 15:26:52 GMT -5
What are you even talking about? To give Dombrowski credit for adding him now, then it means he would deserve even more blame for not adding him on 9/1 when he offered a skill set that the team needed at the time for no cost at all. But if Dombrowski was generally ambivalent toward Brentz, and Cora wanted him specifically? Yeah, that timeline adds up then and makes everything a lot more rational. My points are pretty clear (and essentially spoken by DD today) - unless you just don't want to get them. Brentz was NOT going to be played by Farrell. You refuse to accept that because you want to pin it on DD and you don't want to give him credit now so you attribute it to the new manager who was coaching his old team in the playoffs and consuming his free time trying to put a staff together. This is not Cora telling DD to add Brentz. Give me a break... DD obviously was Farrell's boss so he could have been a little more convincing. Or even put him on the roster to force his hand. Since Farrell was fired, I'm guessing there was a lot of headbutting between JF and DD or JF and the analytic guys.
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