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2018 Spring Training Discussion
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Post by jmei on Feb 16, 2018 11:24:35 GMT -5
I'm in favor of a less bulky Hanley. At his best, he's a guy who makes a lot of contact in addition to hitting the ball hard, and he's moved away from that in recent years.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Feb 16, 2018 11:25:08 GMT -5
Getting 2016 Hanley would be a massive win for this team. A DH OPSing in the .800 isn't elite when you also consider that he's a liability on the base path. IMO,he should never sniff the chance to get them 497 PAs.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 16, 2018 11:41:46 GMT -5
Getting 2016 Hanley would be a massive win for this team. A DH OPSing in the .800 isn't elite when you also consider that he's a liability on the base path. IMO,he should never sniff the chance to get them 497 PAs. Hanley Ramirez had an .866 OPS in 2016. Only two American League teams got that kind of production out of their designated hitter position last year (and #3 wasn't particularly close to getting there).
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 16, 2018 11:51:38 GMT -5
Getting 2016 Hanley would be a massive win for this team. A DH OPSing in the .800 isn't elite when you also consider that he's a liability on the base path. IMO,he should never sniff the chance to get them 497 PAs. If Hanley hits .286/.361/.505/.866 with 30 HR and 111RBI, I’m really not concerned with the outs on the basepaths. We need that power. Plus, the whole team was bad on the basepaths. You have to wonder how much of that will change under Cora. If Hanley is even close to 2016, you take that and the vesting option in a heartbeat.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Feb 16, 2018 11:57:17 GMT -5
A DH OPSing in the .800 isn't elite when you also consider that he's a liability on the base path. IMO,he should never sniff the chance to get them 497 PAs. Hanley Ramirez had an .866 OPS in 2016. Only two American League teams got that kind of production out of their designated hitter position last year (and #3 wasn't particularly close to getting there). Yes it's been a terrible year for DHs www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dh-just-had-its-worst-season/but for me, you need to OPS north of .900 to be considered elite and get paied like one. Nelson Cruz makes 14 millions a year and Encarnacion makes 20 millions and they've been mashing for years now it's not the case for Hanley and his 22 millions/year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 16, 2018 12:04:42 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez had an .866 OPS in 2016. Only two American League teams got that kind of production out of their designated hitter position last year (and #3 wasn't particularly close to getting there). Yes it's been a terrible year for DHs www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dh-just-had-its-worst-season/but for me, you need to OPS north of .900 to be considered elite and get paied like one. Nelson Cruz makes 14 millions a year and Encarnacion makes 20 millions and they've been mashing for years now it's not the case for Hanley and his 22 millions/year. He wasn't signed and paid to be a DH for that money. He was signed as a LF. That was Ben Cherington's hallucination. If the Sox were to get JDM Hanley, if given a chance, and he mashes, would become primarily a 1b, like he was in 2016.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 16, 2018 12:24:16 GMT -5
Remember when the BSOHL story 3 years ago was Hanley bulking up to play LF and how the extra mass would help prevent injuries? I really love how BSOHL narratives fit any side.
Buchholz has surgery this year so now he's healthy! Buchholz didn't have surgery this year so he had a full season to work out so now he's healthy!
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 16, 2018 13:20:35 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez had an .866 OPS in 2016. Only two American League teams got that kind of production out of their designated hitter position last year (and #3 wasn't particularly close to getting there). Yes it's been a terrible year for DHs www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dh-just-had-its-worst-season/but for me, you need to OPS north of .900 to be considered elite and get paied like one. Nelson Cruz makes 14 millions a year and Encarnacion makes 20 millions and they've been mashing for years now it's not the case for Hanley and his 22 millions/year. Who cares if he's "elite" or not though? In 2016, Hanley ranked 30th in the game in wRC+. If that hitter shows up, $22M is worth it.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 16, 2018 13:28:00 GMT -5
At some point he has to take the workload and lead from the position. Yadier Molina is still going after playing full seasons for the past 10-12 years. The counterpoint to that is that Christian Vazquez is obviously no Yadier Molina. ... Actually, it's not all that obvious. Vazquez last year at age 26: .290/.330/.404 - 5 HR. Molina at the same age: .293/.366/.383 - 6 HR. In his first few years the latter started off slowly, bringing the average up but showing little power. The difference in their numbers - slugging for Vazquez vs. OBP for Molina may have something to do with the more aggressive approach that CV showed last year. That in turn, may be due to his gaining familiarity with the way pitchers sequence their stuff. He's nothing if not an avid student of just that sort of thing. And the HR difference could be nothing more than the difference in the games they played at that age, something Chris mentioned. Given the season lost to injury, we really don't have much of idea who Christian Vazquez is going forward. Is he Molina? Unlikely. Can he get better? I wouldn't put any money against that one. His defensive chops won him the backup role over Swihart, and he easily pushed passed Leon after his shooting star of a bat burned out. I don't think he's anywhere near his ceiling, but then I've always been a big fan of the guy. The Sox are well stocked at the position at this point. That's a good thing.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2018 15:19:45 GMT -5
I'm in favor of a less bulky Hanley. At his best, he's a guy who makes a lot of contact in addition to hitting the ball hard, and he's moved away from that in recent years. Yeah the muscle seems to help him hit the ball 500 feet, but somehow not very many 380-400 foot hr.
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 16, 2018 15:26:34 GMT -5
So Núñez is going to need a 40 man spot. Who goes and how do they go?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 16, 2018 15:27:52 GMT -5
So Núñez is going to need a 40 man spot. Who goes and how do they go? Goodbye Devin Marrero.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 16, 2018 15:45:55 GMT -5
So Núñez is going to need a 40 man spot. Who goes and how do they go? Unless there's been a change in his status, the best move would be to put Pedroia on the 60-day DL.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 16, 2018 15:51:45 GMT -5
So Núñez is going to need a 40 man spot. Who goes and how do they go? Goodbye Devin Marrero. William Jerez is more likely to leave the 40 man roster than Marrero, although like it's pointed out, Pedroia to the 60 day DL is a good possibility. As far as the opening day roster, Marrero still has a shot. It's between him and Holt and he is the one legit backup SS between himself, Holt, and Nunez. Once Pedroia is back, though, I wouldn't anticipate Marrero still being around, but I guess it depends on Brock Holt.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2018 16:01:31 GMT -5
So Núñez is going to need a 40 man spot. Who goes and how do they go? Unless there's been a change in his status, the best move would be to put Pedroia on the 60-day DL. Don't they have to wait for the start of the season to do that though? Can they wait until then to add Nunez?
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 16, 2018 16:04:18 GMT -5
Unless there's been a change in his status, the best move would be to put Pedroia on the 60-day DL. Don't they have to wait for the start of the season to do that though? Can they wait until then to add Nunez? Nope! Orioles put Britton on their 60-day already to open the spot for Cashner.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2018 16:05:45 GMT -5
William Jerez is more likely to leave the 40 man roster than Marrero, although like it's pointed out, Pedroia to the 60 day DL is a good possibility. As far as the opening day roster, Marrero still has a shot. It's between him and Holt and he is the one legit backup SS between himself, Holt, and Nunez. Once Pedroia is back, though, I wouldn't anticipate Marrero still being around, but I guess it depends on Brock Holt. They have entirely too many relief pitchers (I count 16 if including Elias and Johnson) on the 40 man right now and probably should trade one or two if they don't want to DFA any of them.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 16, 2018 16:38:10 GMT -5
William Jerez is more likely to leave the 40 man roster than Marrero, although like it's pointed out, Pedroia to the 60 day DL is a good possibility. As far as the opening day roster, Marrero still has a shot. It's between him and Holt and he is the one legit backup SS between himself, Holt, and Nunez. Once Pedroia is back, though, I wouldn't anticipate Marrero still being around, but I guess it depends on Brock Holt. They have entirely too many relief pitchers (I count 16 if including Elias and Johnson) on the 40 man right now and probably should trade one or two if they don't want to DFA any of them. I think, and I hope, that DDo is planning to use this incredible RHRP depth for talented prospects; or if JDM chooses the Phoenix humidor, to trade for a big bat. Even without Thornburg (rehab) and Johnson (filling in for Wright and ERod), bullpen depth is still enviable. For that matter, ditto with infield and catching depth. Has DDo made any clean trades of players for prospects yet? It seems it's always prospects for players. What an interesting turn of events.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 16, 2018 16:44:10 GMT -5
William Jerez is more likely to leave the 40 man roster than Marrero, although like it's pointed out, Pedroia to the 60 day DL is a good possibility. As far as the opening day roster, Marrero still has a shot. It's between him and Holt and he is the one legit backup SS between himself, Holt, and Nunez. Once Pedroia is back, though, I wouldn't anticipate Marrero still being around, but I guess it depends on Brock Holt. James has a good point about Pedrioa and you made a good point about Jerez, but it's hard to find a spot on the 25 man roster for Marrero to start the year regardless if Nunez is added, unless there's more injuries to the roster. I personally think the Sox have a decent shot to sneak Marrero through waivers too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 16, 2018 16:51:05 GMT -5
They have entirely too many relief pitchers (I count 16 if including Elias and Johnson) on the 40 man right now and probably should trade one or two if they don't want to DFA any of them. I think, and I hope, that DDo is planning to use this incredible RHRP depth for talented prospects; or if JDM chooses the Phoenix humidor, to trade for a big bat. Even without Thornburg (rehab) and Johnson (filling in for Wright and ERod), bullpen depth is still enviable. For that matter, ditto with infield and catching depth. Has DDo made any clean trades of players for prospects yet? It seems it's always prospects for players. What an interesting turn of events. I don't think you're going to get that much talent for the Brandon Workmans, Heath Hembrees, and Austin Maddoxes of the world. They probably will need to trade a reliever or two like a Heath Hembree, but I wouldn't expect much more than a younger Heath Hembree type in a deal. And yes, DD traded Clay Buchholz for that 2b named Tobias, who is kind of a fringy prospect.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 16, 2018 16:52:16 GMT -5
William Jerez is more likely to leave the 40 man roster than Marrero, although like it's pointed out, Pedroia to the 60 day DL is a good possibility. As far as the opening day roster, Marrero still has a shot. It's between him and Holt and he is the one legit backup SS between himself, Holt, and Nunez. Once Pedroia is back, though, I wouldn't anticipate Marrero still being around, but I guess it depends on Brock Holt. James has a good point about Pedrioa and you made a good point about Jerez, but it's hard to find a spot on the 25 man roster for Marrero to start the year regardless if Nunez is added, unless there's more injuries to the roster. I personally think the Sox have a decent shot to sneak Marrero through waivers too. It probably comes down to Holt vs Marrero. If the Sox try to sneak Marrero through I doubt he'd clear waivers. He's an atrocious hitter, but he might be able to hold his own against lefties, and he is an excellent fielder. He can definitely be a viable utility man on some team's bench.
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giltg
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When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
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Post by giltg on Feb 16, 2018 17:11:40 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Roenis Elias he's down to one option where Jerez has three left. Elias hasn't really done much Sox called him up use them for one third of an inning and sent them back down. Jerez was recently put on the 40-man roster so the Sox must believe he has some value. IMO Marrero has some value. He had some last season for the Red Sox when the Sandoval debacle wasn't going well.And to a a team that is {tanking} and he would have some value even a team that's trying to keep their payroll down would value him. And yet another angle maybe the Sox are working on a trade and not signing JDM.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 16, 2018 18:22:16 GMT -5
Getting 2016 Hanley would be a massive win for this team. A DH OPSing in the .800 isn't elite when you also consider that he's a liability on the base path. IMO,he should never sniff the chance to get them 497 PAs. he may yet rake for a bit, lot riding. I'll be watching with a key eye and a sharp tongue, Just in case
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 16, 2018 19:34:43 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Roenis Elias he's down to one option where Jerez has three left. Elias hasn't really done much Sox called him up use them for one third of an inning and sent them back down. Jerez was recently put on the 40-man roster so the Sox must believe he has some value. IMO Marrero has some value. He had some last season for the Red Sox when the Sandoval debacle wasn't going well.And to a a team that is {tanking} and he would have some value even a team that's trying to keep their payroll down would value him. And yet another angle maybe the Sox are working on a trade and not signing JDM. I don't see how potentially having to deal away fringy talent like Marrero has anything to do with the idea that the Sox are working on a trade in lieu of signing JDM. I don't think either thing has anything to do with each other. They can trade away Marrero and still sign JDM. They can trade away Marrero and watch AZ sign JDM. Marrero isn't worth a heckuva lot in a trade.
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giltg
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When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
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Post by giltg on Feb 16, 2018 23:32:25 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Roenis Elias he's down to one option where Jerez has three left. Elias hasn't really done much Sox called him up use them for one third of an inning and sent them back down. Jerez was recently put on the 40-man roster so the Sox must believe he has some value. IMO Marrero has some value. He had some last season for the Red Sox when the Sandoval debacle wasn't going well.And to a a team that is {tanking} and he would have some value even a team that's trying to keep their payroll down would value him. And yet another angle maybe the Sox are working on a trade and not signing JDM. I don't see how potentially having to deal away fringy talent like Marrero has anything to do with the idea that the Sox are working on a trade in lieu of signing JDM. I don't think either thing has anything to do with each other. They can trade away Marrero and still sign JDM. They can trade away Marrero and watch AZ sign JDM. Marrero isn't worth a heckuva lot in a trade. Actually what I meant by working on a trade was they could be working on acquiring a power hitter by trade instead of signing JDM. I'm not going to use names of Sox players that could be involved in a trade or the power hitter that they're trying to acquire but we do know that they do need power and possibly another reliever{lefty} so that was my line of thinking. I do realize that Marrero Holt and even Swihart are not worth much Sox could include one of them in a trade along with another player.
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