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Chavis suspended 80 games for banned substance
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Apr 6, 2018 16:38:09 GMT -5
Can't spell busted without bust
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 6, 2018 16:46:15 GMT -5
Oh Chavis...
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Post by RedSoxStats on Apr 6, 2018 16:47:21 GMT -5
Same thing Chris Colabello got busted for. An old East German drug.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 6, 2018 16:47:23 GMT -5
Test was positive for dehydrochlormethyltestosterone. Yes, I copied and pasted that.
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Post by dirtdog on Apr 6, 2018 16:53:49 GMT -5
Welp, that is certainly a kick in the groin. So much for selling high on this asset.
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Post by dirtdog on Apr 6, 2018 17:00:52 GMT -5
BTW two thoughts come to mind. 1) It will be interesting to see how much power he has after he comes back from suspension. 2) Abramson said on FB today said he thought Swihart was a man with no real future here and a good chance he gets flipped for an 8th inning setup guy. This probably only hastens that scenario.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,274
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Post by radiohix on Apr 6, 2018 17:00:59 GMT -5
Chavis' statement
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Post by doctorduck21 on Apr 6, 2018 17:06:47 GMT -5
Well this sucks. Not sure why players release statements about these since no one believes the "I don't know how this got here" thing.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,787
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Post by nomar on Apr 6, 2018 17:34:53 GMT -5
Damn
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Post by Smittyw on Apr 6, 2018 17:58:28 GMT -5
Dombrowski always trades the right ones.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 6, 2018 18:06:19 GMT -5
Well this sucks. Not sure why players release statements about these since no one believes the "I don't know how this got here" thing. As a prominent person supposedly said 'Billy you just tell them and they'll believe you'. We all know that if a person is positively disposed or loyal to another, latitude is offered. The statement is an appeal to that group. If Chavis is silent, his base has nothing to cling to...
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Post by ifixbadcredit on Apr 6, 2018 18:35:10 GMT -5
BTW two thoughts come to mind. 1) It will be interesting to see how much power he has after he comes back from suspension. 2) Abramson said on FB today said he thought Swihart was a man with no real future here and a good chance he gets flipped for an 8th inning setup guy. This probably only hastens that scenario. I find this comical, just because CF and the Catcher position on the Red Sox have no upside.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,924
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 6, 2018 20:21:02 GMT -5
Well this sucks. Not sure why players release statements about these since no one believes the "I don't know how this got here" thing. As a prominent person supposedly said 'Billy you just tell them and they'll believe you'. We all know that if a person is positively disposed or loyal to another, latitude is offered. The statement is an appeal to that group. If Chavis is silent, his base has nothing to cling to... I don't know if Chavis wrote his statement personally, but most of the words in it are not in that prominent person's vocabulary. Furthermore, "you just tell them" means you don't actually make a reasoned argument, because that person is incapable of making one. The fact that he's passed every previous test is significant, as is the fact that he's never had a drink or taken drugs because of a negative family history. And DHMCT is taken orally, has been around for ages and is only manufactured black-market, and its metabolites can be detected at tiny fractions. It could have very easily been in some supplement, unadvertised. If you use DHMCT within six weeks of a test, you can get busted. I'd like to hear the scenario where he's been using it knowingly but just got caught for the first time. He's not the first guy that this happened to: Chris Colabello got busted two years ago pretty much identically. You know the guy who actually just denied the reports to play to his base Donald-style? Alex Rodriguez. This case is pretty much the polar opposite: a guy many or most MLB fans will have never heard of who issues a detailed, very credible statement. What's interesting is that the usual time for DHMCT metabolities to clear the bloodstream is 2-3 weeks. An unscrupulous personal trainer could add it to his nutrition program and try to time it so his clients wouldn't get caught. He gets a reputation as a guy who really gets results. And if that's what happened, and Chavis actually suspects that someone he was working with may have been giving him the DHMCT, the smart thing to do is not to go public with that suspicion. And of course the guy has certainly already denied it to his face. If some sleazebag gives you a controlled substance without your knowledge, you're screwed -- because the sleazebag, unless he's an idiot, has plausible deniability, with no paper trail for obtaining the substance.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 6, 2018 20:29:20 GMT -5
BTW two thoughts come to mind. 1) It will be interesting to see how much power he has after he comes back from suspension. 2) Abramson said on FB today said he thought Swihart was a man with no real future here and a good chance he gets flipped for an 8th inning setup guy. This probably only hastens that scenario. I would guess somewhere in the 95-100% range.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 6, 2018 20:41:01 GMT -5
This stinks but the Sox don't lose service time. It's just pushes his projected MLB date until next year.
He still should be a strong guy after he comes back. I don't think performance will be affected by this.
Hopefully he learns from this. First Daniel Flores, now this. The Sox system has taken a big hit with stuff outside of baseball reasons the past year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 6, 2018 21:56:50 GMT -5
I would guess somewhere in the 95-100% range. Agreed. I don't like assuming things about people I don't know, but I think Chavis probably did this more because of his constant injuries and as a way to come back and not because he wanted to be crazy strong and hit 300 homers. The association of steroids to Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa kind of borked the view on why people roid up.
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Post by manfred on Apr 6, 2018 22:08:57 GMT -5
This is a bummer, but he is young. While this may be a set back, he can still be fine.
Onward.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Apr 7, 2018 0:31:05 GMT -5
Test was positive for dehydrochlormethyltestosterone. Yes, I copied and pasted that. Enunciate that word on the next podcast.
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Post by GyIantosca on Apr 7, 2018 1:10:30 GMT -5
I would give Swihart one spot each rotation . I always thought he did good with ERod. I don’t think in the future Leon has much upside. I mean back in the day Ortiz sat behind Giambi for a half a season. Imagine if we moved Ortiz , that’s why I don’t understand these dumb ass reporters we have to move Swihart. If Cora works him slow they can see what they have and hopefully move Leon.
Regarding Chavis I wasn’t counting on him this year anyway. He is valuable for flexibility. Guys like Travis, Chavis and Swihart have service time that’s advantageous to the Sox. You can see in the next two years the Sox need to see down the future also with contracts. I don’t get other teams can sign there guys , I would sign JBJ but it has to be within reason. Boras is gonna screw the Sox up. We’ll see.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 7, 2018 5:09:57 GMT -5
I am going to give Chavis the benefit of doubt. He already has a muscular build which he has built over time, time in which he was no positive tests. Doesn't make sense that he would do it knowingly now especially given the abstinence history.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 7, 2018 9:29:28 GMT -5
I am going to give Chavis the benefit of doubt. He already has a muscular build which he has built over time, time in which he was no positive tests. Doesn't make sense that he would do it knowingly now especially given the abstinence history. Would we have the same feeling if it were Stanton in N. Y., the oft injured Bird or some super stud on the Yankee farm? Would we extend the same benefit of the doubt with lesser players nabbed in the Sox system? Face it we are loyal to our guys, especially when they are viewed as potential stars. We don't want them sullied and it makes us feel badly being even tangentially associated as fans. We want to cling to anything, however implausible, to still believe. "Say it ain't so Joe"... But for me the excuse 'that I didn't know what was in the supplement or how I could have tested positive' might have carried water twenty years ago. It's knee jerk trite and hackneyed today. These guys are schooled by their teams, they have access to the most knowledgeable trainers and nutritionists. Just once I'd like to hear someone from the legion caught be honest and say "I took the risk because I hoped it could get me to the Bigs and I could make a lot of money. I got caught". I don't want to sound holier than thou. It's hard to admit, endure the scorn and forever be a known cheater, but that guy would get more respect from me than trotting out lawyer CYA boilerplate. Not that your premise doesn't have some true points but in regards to this situation I disagree, for myself anyway. The statement from him about not drinking kind of hits me, I mean really how many young people do not drink at all? The statement was well done IMO. So who knows the truth really we will never know. I know that in the past I have not given my teams players a free pass and believed they were innocent. Fact is I fall into the category of fan that doesn't care that players have done it. I don't think of it as a big deal. If a player has the chance to make millions and have a career in sports because they take something to enhance that chance it is just too alluring to turn down for many. I can't vilify that.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 7, 2018 9:33:36 GMT -5
I would guess somewhere in the 95-100% range. Agreed. I don't like assuming things about people I don't know, but I think Chavis probably did this more because of his constant injuries and as a way to come back and not because he wanted to be crazy strong and hit 300 homers. The association of steroids to Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa kind of borked the view on why people roid up. I mean, first off, I think it's plausible that he really didn't do this intentionally. Secondly, for the zillionth time, steroids aren't magic. Chavis has always been a big dude with power. Banned substances might make a difference around the margins, but they're not going to transform him into Barry Bonds any more than than they transformed Dee Gordon into Barry Bonds. Third, and speaking of Dee Gordon, we've seen time after time after time after time that guys who serve PED suspensions come back as approximately the same player they were before. Happened for Dee, happened for Cruz, happened for Peralta, on and on and on down the line. It sucks that he's missing another season of development time, but other than that, nothing has changed here.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 7, 2018 10:55:15 GMT -5
It's a shame about Chavis. I really don't know what to believe. His statement was excellent, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's on the level. Who knows if he never had alcohol or did drugs? If he hasn't that's great, but the point is who knows if he's telling the truth?
I'd like to believe him......who knows? I'm still not convinced that Ortiz's failed test wasn't a false positive back in 03 but that could be the fan-boy of Ortiz in me, so who really knows?
All I do know is that this will set back Chavis' development further and impact the team.
Hanley mashing and triggering that option might be a separate thing, but consider that if Sam Travis doesn't take his spring training home runs into his Pawtucket season, and now you have Chavis who most likely doesn't taste AAA ball this season, that means if Hanley is mashing then it is pretty much a no-brainer to have him back next season - unless you were overly enthused with the production of Mitch Moreland, who is nowhere near the hitter Hanley is when Hanley is healthy.
So you figure Chavis reaches AAA in 2019 with a shot at a call-up by midseason. He's not somebody that you can remove Hanley out of the way for. Sam Travis at this point hasn't eliminated the possibility that Hanley should be removed to make room for him, but like I said, he'll have to tear up AAA and Hanley would have to either injured which would mean he'd likely miss his PA, and his performance would likely suffer.
I honestly have always felt that Chavis is somebody DD was likely going to trade given that he really hasn't mastered a defensive position. I had always hoped he could give them power as a 2b should Pedroia's performance slip or as a corner OF if they wanted to trade JBJ, but I don't think either is overly realistic at this point. And DD, I think, is pretty high on Sam Travis, even saying he wanted to keep him, and that he believes the power will be there as he continues to work with the coaching staff.
It's too bad for the player and his organization.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 7, 2018 10:56:07 GMT -5
Would we have the same feeling if it were Stanton in N. Y., the oft injured Bird or some super stud on the Yankee farm? Would we extend the same benefit of the doubt with lesser players nabbed in the Sox system? Face it we are loyal to our guys, especially when they are viewed as potential stars. We don't want them sullied and it makes us feel badly being even tangentially associated as fans. We want to cling to anything, however implausible, to still believe. "Say it ain't so Joe"... But for me the excuse 'that I didn't know what was in the supplement or how I could have tested positive' might have carried water twenty years ago. It's knee jerk trite and hackneyed today. These guys are schooled by their teams, they have access to the most knowledgeable trainers and nutritionists. Just once I'd like to hear someone from the legion caught be honest and say "I took the risk because I hoped it could get me to the Bigs and I could make a lot of money. I got caught". I don't want to sound holier than thou. It's hard to admit, endure the scorn and forever be a known cheater, but that guy would get more respect from me than trotting out lawyer CYA boilerplate. Not that your premise doesn't have some true points but in regards to this situation I disagree, for myself anyway. The statement from him about not drinking kind of hits me, I mean really how many young people do not drink at all? The statement was well done IMO. So who knows the truth really we will never know. I know that in the past I have not given my teams players a free pass and believed they were innocent. Fact is I fall into the category of fan that doesn't care that players have done it. I don't think of it as a big deal. If a player has the chance to make millions and have a career in sports because they take something to enhance that chance it is just too alluring to turn down for many. I can't vilify that. Ok, let's get straight to "Rollerball"....The team with the best chemist wins. And while we're at it let's eliminate testing in all sports including the Olympics. And who can fault the college kid for cheating on his exams?....after all he just wants a better job with more money to provide for his family. Who wouldn't? The fault, of course, is getting caught ('you dummy'), not doing the act. The end justifies the means. Thanks. Now I get it. The argument that "steroids" don't necessarily help is a feckless one and misses the point. Re the first point, the East German swim team, an historical beacon in the 'better through chemistry', movement, and in the infancy of performance enhancement pursuits, would be a counterpoint...bigger, stronger, faster. Current listed banned substances are identified as performance enhancers for a reason. But as above, that too misses the point. The drugs are taken with the hope and expectation of performance gains even if they did not for a certain individual. And we'd better believe that better, more tailored enhancers are coming...ones that perhaps improve hand/eye and other elements integral to baseball performance. What about those? As often noted, taking performance enhancers creates an uneven playing field for honest players. What say on that score? The fact that Chavis doesn't drink is not overly relevant IMO. Ingesting substances "recreationally" is in a different category from trying to improve performance with maybe millions in the balance. His lengthy, well-written statement smacks of legal craftsmanship and it would be naive to think otherwise. When a guy with Chavis' high profile gets dinged with all at stake, the first impulse would be to not make a further mistake.... seek the best damage control.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 7, 2018 11:24:27 GMT -5
It's a shame about Chavis. I really don't know what to believe. His statement was excellent, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's on the level. Who knows if he never had alcohol or did drugs? If he hasn't that's great, but the point is who knows if he's telling the truth?In this day of social media, I'd have to think he would have been instantly called out with pics if he had ever once done it.
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