SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Chavis suspended 80 games for banned substance
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 7, 2018 11:39:32 GMT -5
Well, at least Dombrowski can't trade him for a middle reliever until next year.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Apr 7, 2018 12:12:56 GMT -5
It's a shame about Chavis. I really don't know what to believe. His statement was excellent, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's on the level. Who knows if he never had alcohol or did drugs? If he hasn't that's great, but the point is who knows if he's telling the truth?In this day of social media, I'd have to think he would have been instantly called out with pics if he had ever once done it. My thoughts, too. He's not going to make that statement if untrue when all his HS friends - or enemies - could easily call him out. That would make no sense.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Apr 7, 2018 12:17:03 GMT -5
Well, at least Dombrowski can't trade him for a middle reliever until next year. Why not? He'll be back at the end of June (according to his statement). Not saying I'd recommend it, but he could easily be traded in July. (I have no idea if he can be traded while on a MiLB substance abuse suspension, but I would doubt it.)
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Apr 7, 2018 13:22:27 GMT -5
Well, that sucks for everyone
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 7, 2018 14:46:12 GMT -5
It's a shame about Chavis. I really don't know what to believe. His statement was excellent, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's on the level. Who knows if he never had alcohol or did drugs? If he hasn't that's great, but the point is who knows if he's telling the truth?In this day of social media, I'd have to think he would have been instantly called out with pics if he had ever once done it. True. I think my comment was kind of stuck somewhere in the 20th century.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Apr 7, 2018 17:08:47 GMT -5
Just wondering if you guys are equating a stated and uncontroverted aversion to ingesting drugs and alcohol to not intentionally using performance enhancing substances? In stark contrast, the former are not going to help a player attain goals (MLB/money) and may well imperil them. The latter...?
I object on principle to taking known performance enhancers ..integrity of the game yada, yada...whether our guys do it (feel disheartened) or Yankee players get caught. '..serves them right,..ban them..the cheaters'.
An 80 game suspension is serious stuff and not meted out lightly. An opportunity was given Chavis to explain the results... which apparently went unchallenged. Further nothing satisfactorily explanatve or exculpatory was advanced despite Chavis having full knowledge of what he consumed...especially given his rep for being particularly conscious of that.
I revert to a prior post. ...All of us instinctively want to support, think well of and protect our teams' players. To feel otherwise drags us unwittingly, as fans, into the mentally unhealthy morass. That uncomfortable and untenable prospect skewers viewpoint.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 7, 2018 17:32:00 GMT -5
Just wondering if you guys are equating a stated and uncontroverted aversion to ingesting drugs and alcohol to not intentionally using performance enhancing substances? In stark contrast, the former are not going to help a player attain goals (MLB/money) and may well imperil them. The latter...? I object on principle to taking known performance enhancers ..integrity of the game yada, yada...whether our guys do it (feel disheartened) or Yankee players get caught. '..serves them right,..ban them..the cheaters'. An 80 game suspension is serious stuff and not meted out lightly. An opportunity was given Chavis to explain the results... which apparently went unchallenged. Further nothing satisfactorily explanatve or exculpatory was advanced despite Chavis having full knowledge of what he consumed...especially given his rep for being particularly conscious of that. I revert to a prior post. ...All of us instinctively want to support, think well of and protect our teams' players. To feel otherwise drags us unwittingly, as fans, into the mentally unhealthy morass. That uncomfortable and untenable prospect skewers viewpoint. For what it's worth, just since you bring it up, there's no clause in the minor league drug policy for "explaining" why you tested positive. I understand this comes from Chavis' statement, but I'm just saying, that's not something you can do. The following are the bases for an appeal: Perhaps he could claim exceptional circumstances or something if he figured out why he tested positive, but there's nothing that says you can "explain" why you tested positive as he's suggesting. That's an oversimplification. At any rate, it's REALLY hard to win any appeal under this regime. I have no idea how a player would ever get evidence regarding the chain of custody of his sample or a lab error. To be honest, if I were a minor league baseball player, I probably wouldn't even use over-the-counter protein powder given the chances it might have something in it that would cause a positive test. Personally, given the number of times these guys are tested in a given year, I typically assume a player who tests positive does so because he took the wrong supplement, so it's a suspension of stupidity more than it's a suspension of moral turpitude. The minor league drug program is so much stricter than the major league drug program (seriously, compare them sometime, and think about how much more often minor leaguers are suspended than major leaguers are), that it's pretty obviously, to me anyway, designed to lead to suspensions so MLB can say it's doing something about steroids without the players' union (in which most minor leaguers aren't members...) getting too upset. Consider this from the NYT piece. It's from 2016, but still, it bears keeping in mind, because if it happened then, it could happen now:
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Apr 8, 2018 11:02:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the policy info. and report. You're right, I was taking Chavis' statement at face value..which presumably was intended.
With possibly unlabeled PE in supplements, going thru team physicians/nutritionists is all the more underscored. These kinds of things shouldn't happen today.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Apr 8, 2018 12:04:35 GMT -5
I am certainly not condoning the use of illegal substances in sports, I just feel I have a broader view based on the history of baseball players. How long were greenies part of the clubhouse norm? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball It takes a lot to get thru a 162 game season and this stuff has been going on forever. Doesn't make it right but I am not going to vilify all that have done it. When a little utility guy gets busted with them you know it is wide spread.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 8, 2018 12:24:46 GMT -5
Not that it necessarily applies in the case of Chavis, but this is probably a good time to remind everyone that the minor leagues pay starvation wages. The incentives for minor leaguers who don’t have bonus money or family wealth to fall back on use PEDs are insane. If I were in that situation, I would use everything I thought I could get away with and probably more than that. The payoff is so crazy huge and the risk of getting caught is not that high AND the penalties aren’t even that huge if you do get caught. I’m honestly surprised by how few guys get popped for it.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 8, 2018 12:31:24 GMT -5
I mean, first off, I think it's plausible that he really didn't do this intentionally. Secondly, for the zillionth time, steroids aren't magic. Chavis has always been a big dude with power. Banned substances might make a difference around the margins, but they're not going to transform him into Barry Bonds any more than than they transformed Dee Gordon into Barry Bonds. Third, and speaking of Dee Gordon, we've seen time after time after time after time that guys who serve PED suspensions come back as approximately the same player they were before. Happened for Dee, happened for Cruz, happened for Peralta, on and on and on down the line. It sucks that he's missing another season of development time, but other than that, nothing has changed here. A lot has changed here. I don't blame players for cheating (or whatever you want to call it), but the notion that players don't take supplements, steroids, HGH....to get an advantages is naive. There are definite advantages to taking them...that is why players do. As far as what they may or may not do, no one can definitely say, sure. But the numbers back up that they can really improve performance...vis a vis...counting power stats. I mean the intent isn't to turn someone into Barry Bonds, that isn't going to happen. The intent is to increase your own performance. I don't think Chavis or anyone else for that matter, deserves any benefit of the doubt. People cheat all the time, it is part of the human experience.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 8, 2018 13:05:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 8, 2018 14:30:19 GMT -5
I mean, first off, I think it's plausible that he really didn't do this intentionally. Secondly, for the zillionth time, steroids aren't magic. Chavis has always been a big dude with power. Banned substances might make a difference around the margins, but they're not going to transform him into Barry Bonds any more than than they transformed Dee Gordon into Barry Bonds. Third, and speaking of Dee Gordon, we've seen time after time after time after time that guys who serve PED suspensions come back as approximately the same player they were before. Happened for Dee, happened for Cruz, happened for Peralta, on and on and on down the line. It sucks that he's missing another season of development time, but other than that, nothing has changed here. A lot has changed here. I don't blame players for cheating (or whatever you want to call it), but the notion that players don't take supplements, steroids, HGH....to get an advantages is naive. There are definite advantages to taking them...that is why players do. As far as what they may or may not do, no one can definitely say, sure. But the numbers back up that they can really improve performance...vis a vis...counting power stats.
I mean the intent isn't to turn someone into Barry Bonds, that isn't going to happen. The intent is to increase your own performance. I don't think Chavis or anyone else for that matter, deserves any benefit of the doubt. People cheat all the time, it is part of the human experience. I literally said they make a difference in my next sentence. And as far as the numbers showing that they make a big difference in power production, that's questionable at best. Yes, I'm aware that a handful of guys went crazy in the late 90s. There's a lot more data than that, and it's a lot less conclusive than you want it to do.
|
|
|
Post by soxfando on Apr 8, 2018 17:22:31 GMT -5
Have a hard time believing he took this intentionally.
|
|
|
Post by soxfando on Apr 8, 2018 17:27:13 GMT -5
A lot has changed here. I don't blame players for cheating (or whatever you want to call it), but the notion that players don't take supplements, steroids, HGH....to get an advantages is naive. There are definite advantages to taking them...that is why players do. As far as what they may or may not do, no one can definitely say, sure. But the numbers back up that they can really improve performance...vis a vis...counting power stats.
I mean the intent isn't to turn someone into Barry Bonds, that isn't going to happen. The intent is to increase your own performance. I don't think Chavis or anyone else for that matter, deserves any benefit of the doubt. People cheat all the time, it is part of the human experience. I literally said they make a difference in my next sentence. And as far as the numbers showing that they make a big difference in power production, that's questionable at best. Yes, I'm aware that a handful of guys went crazy in the late 90s. There's a lot more data than that, and it's a lot less conclusive than you want it to do. MLB juicing baseballs probably has more to do with increased/crazy power numbers. I mean, Giancarlo hit 59 homeruns last year and it's not even viewed as that "crazy". No reason to think they weren't also juicing baseballs in the late 90s.
|
|
|
Post by bruinsfan94 on Apr 8, 2018 19:17:17 GMT -5
I think he would have to be straight up insane to make up never using drugs or booze. That is a huge lie to tell because I doubt he was drinking alone. He was a star baseball player his whole life. His friends and family would know if he was drinking or not.
|
|
|
Post by bruinsfan94 on Apr 8, 2018 19:18:32 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's likely but I don't think it would be hard to imagine an ex girlfriend/boyfriend, or just a crazy friend putting something in his drink to screw him. People are crazy.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Apr 8, 2018 22:54:52 GMT -5
I mean, first off, I think it's plausible that he really didn't do this intentionally. Secondly, for the zillionth time, steroids aren't magic. Chavis has always been a big dude with power. Banned substances might make a difference around the margins, but they're not going to transform him into Barry Bonds any more than than they transformed Dee Gordon into Barry Bonds. Third, and speaking of Dee Gordon, we've seen time after time after time after time that guys who serve PED suspensions come back as approximately the same player they were before. Happened for Dee, happened for Cruz, happened for Peralta, on and on and on down the line. It sucks that he's missing another season of development time, but other than that, nothing has changed here. Yeah, just to be clear I very much agree with this. Like I said, people got used to steroids being tied to ridiculous HR totals when in fact it's probably used more often as a training aid of sorts to build stamina. Inevitably it will aid performance because your body just heals faster and you're fresher to muscle up hard balls traveling really fast. So when a guy with a pretty large injury history as Chavis gets busted for this, my completely uneducated guess is that at some point a guy will just do whatever he can in order to stay healthy. So I don't think performance, I think availability.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2018 11:32:52 GMT -5
I have no idea how this still happens by “accident”. Have your supplements tested and approved. It shouldn’t be that difficult and if baseball doesn’t have a process for this then these players shouldn’t be getting suspended.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 9, 2018 12:23:12 GMT -5
I have no idea how this still happens by “accident”. Have your supplements tested and approved. It shouldn’t be that difficult and if baseball doesn’t have a process for this then these players shouldn’t be getting suspended. It’s difficult to do that because the formulas change continually even with the same brand. They need some kind of certification process.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 9, 2018 12:36:45 GMT -5
I have no idea how this still happens by “accident”. Have your supplements tested and approved. It shouldn’t be that difficult and if baseball doesn’t have a process for this then these players shouldn’t be getting suspended. It’s difficult to do that because the formulas change continually even with the same brand. They need some kind of certification process. From the Minor League Drug Prevention and Treatment Program:
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2018 12:41:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean there's a ancillary problem that goes beyond baseball/pro-sports here that people ingest a bunch of unregulated garbage that they think is safe and legit because it's sold in the storefront between Build-a-Bear and Yankee Candle.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Apr 9, 2018 13:07:24 GMT -5
Perfect. There is no legitimate excuse short of an Act of God for testing positive. The approved supplements are identified. The onus is on the player. The days of "I didn't know", "I have no idea how it happened" or "I was just trying to recover faster and my friend 'Joe' swore by this stuff from the tropical canopy" are over.
I am glad the testing is becoming more sophisticated and more positives registered. The penalties are greater too. Let the players make their mark legitimately.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2018 13:19:32 GMT -5
But it's very possible that supplement he's been taking for years without issue is now made with Turinabol, because there's nothing saying they can't do so. That's a legitimate excuse. That doesn't mean it absolves him from wrongdoing and that he shouldn't serve his suspension and accept responsibility, but it's also fair to him to wonder what the hell happened and to be upset about it.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 9, 2018 13:41:26 GMT -5
If you look the certified supplements it's a rather small list given the amount of supplements out there. Which is surprising.
|
|
|