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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 23, 2018 12:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 23, 2018 12:56:28 GMT -5
Curious trade. Why trade Ellis now when they don’t need a roster spot, particularly for a PTBNL or cash? Why not wait a while to let market develop, and thus get something with greater value?
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 23, 2018 13:02:04 GMT -5
What market do you think was going to develop for Roenis Elias? The only way Elias was going to build value was by having him get major leaguers out, and he wasn't going to get the opportunity to do that in Boston. If the Red Sox didn't have a path for him, and the Mariners actively wanted him, sometimes you just have to do right by the player. And with Poyner back down and Jerez emerging (or at least looking interesting in the early going), they were going to start getting into a situation where they weren't even going to find adequate innings. Best to do that now.
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 23, 2018 13:15:29 GMT -5
They've also Beeks as a lefty that could maybe develop into a starter become a sold pen arm.
These ptbnl's can vary widely. It could be set up for decent proespect (with options, which is important) if Elias does well. Or a lesser prospect (also with options, hopefully) if he does less well.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2018 13:19:23 GMT -5
Yeah, as it is, it's getting pretty crowded in the Pawtucket pitching staff. As far as average left-handers, they have Poyner, Scott, and Jerez right now. And I watched Josh Smith the other day, and came away at least a bit intrigued with him as a sidearm LOOGY. His issue last year was walks, and if he's figured that out, he's interesting at least.
The timing does seem a little weird to me as well, don't get me wrong, but I could see them saying there weren't enough innings to go around for all of the arms in Pawtucket right now. Let's see who the player is, if the PTBNL materializes, before rushing to judgment.
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Post by jdb on Apr 23, 2018 13:29:44 GMT -5
Cash considerations could be international money also, right?
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Apr 23, 2018 13:34:59 GMT -5
Cash considerations could be international money also, right? I really wish DD went after more International dollars. Some clubs seem to do this much more than us. |
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Post by telson13 on Apr 23, 2018 14:44:09 GMT -5
Cash considerations could be international money also, right? I would certainly hope so. With the new non-pool limit ($10K I think), “lower”-cost players in that 25-100K range eat up dollars pretty quickly but they’re a good investment. The Sox also really, really need to restock the “high-upside” range of their system. A Torres/Jimenez-level prospect signed now would be knocking on the door in 4-5 years, right at or slightly after the time their roster crunch happens. If I’m the Sox (and I think Chris is spot-on here), I’m taking some of that AA/AAA and probably even some 40-man excess, and moving them to build the farm. Some intl bonus money and some lower-lever/higher-upside talent would help a lot. Right now the talent is MLB-concentrated, and probably will be for at least two, maybe three years. They dont need MLB-ready guys, they’re thinnest in high-end talent at the lower levels. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2018 14:58:16 GMT -5
Cash considerations could be international money also, right? No. That's just "we'll give you $XXXX for this player." If it's international bonus cap pool space, they call it that. For example, Seattle and Arizona made a trade this weekend for international bonus pool money. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2018 15:03:45 GMT -5
Cash considerations could be international money also, right? I really wish DD went after more International dollars. Some clubs seem to do this much more than us. The Red Sox traded for just about as much international money as they were allowed to trade for last year, so you're kind of off base here. They pretty much traded Longhi to the Reds for the money that was used to sign Daniel Flores (they received $2.75M for him and Flores got $3.1M), and traded Imeldo Diaz and Stanley Espinal to Arizona for an undisclosed amount as well. The previous two seasons, they were either banned from signing players period or limited to much smaller bonuses, so that's now a three year period in which they've done all you could have asked them to do in acquiring IFA bonus pool money. They started with $4.75M last year, and were allowed to trade up to $8,312,500. They reportedly traded up to $8M or so. Not sure what else you can ask them to do. |
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Post by bcsox on Apr 23, 2018 15:21:27 GMT -5
does it still remain true that Dombrowski has not traded for one prospect in his time as Sox GM? Just for my visual preference I would always rather even a low A player as you often dont hear about how the future considerations are worked out. I strike my previous question, I think we have a second baseman in the system Tobias? as a result of the Clay trade?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 23, 2018 15:27:46 GMT -5
does it still remain true that Dombrowski has not traded for one prospect in his time as Sox GM? Just for my visual preference I would always rather even a low A player as you often dont hear about how the future considerations are worked out. I strike my previous question, I think we have a second baseman in the system Tobias? as a result of the Clay trade? He came here in Aug 2015 and since he's been here beginning with the 2016 season the Red Sox have finished both the 2016 and 2017 seasons in first place and are trying to win it this year. It's not surprising that he wouldn't acquire many prospects. When the Tigers were collapsing he traded for prospects. He got Fullmer from the Mets for Cespedes and he got Norris and Boyd from the Jays for David Price. |
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 23, 2018 15:52:14 GMT -5
I don't get giving him away when he has only given up 2 hits, 2 walks and gotten 9 strikeouts in 7.1 innings. Couldn't we wait to see if his move to the bullpen meant anything?
I hope the PTBNL is something that makes me shut up about it and not just $50K which does absolutely nothing for anyone but John Henry.
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Post by ramireja on Apr 23, 2018 15:57:37 GMT -5
I don't get giving him away when he has only given up 2 hits, 2 walks and gotten 9 strikeouts in 7.1 innings. Couldn't we wait to see if his move to the bullpen meant anything? I hope the PTBNL is something that makes me shut up about it and not just $50K which does absolutely nothing for anyone but John Henry. I mean your two statements are kind of contradicting each other. You don't even know what the return is and yet you're upset over "giving him away." |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2018 16:10:32 GMT -5
does it still remain true that Dombrowski has not traded for one prospect in his time as Sox GM? Just for my visual preference I would always rather even a low A player as you often dont hear about how the future considerations are worked out. I strike my previous question, I think we have a second baseman in the system Tobias? as a result of the Clay trade? He came here in Aug 2015 and since he's been here beginning with the 2016 season the Red Sox have finished both the 2016 and 2017 seasons in first place and are trying to win it this year. It's not surprising that he wouldn't acquire many prospects. When the Tigers were collapsing he traded for prospects. He got Fullmer from the Mets for Cespedes and he got Norris and Boyd from the Jays for David Price. Yeah, this. I'm not sure who the team has traded that would have merited a true "prospect" return. They got Tobias from Philly for Buchholz, but again, what were you expecting for all of Buchholz's contract? I'm just not sure what else there is. And actually, Dombrowski's first trade was Alejandro De Aza for Luis Ysla, which was a pretty good prospect return for what he was trading. Ysla hasn't done anything but he was an intriguing bullpen prospect. By the way, you can always look at the website here, such as the team rosters page ( www.soxprospects.com/org.htm ) and rankings pages ( www.soxprospects.com/index.html ; www.soxprospects.com/moreprospects.html ) for players in the system, as well as the Transactions page ( www.soxprospects.com/transactions.htm ) for historical transactions. |
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 23, 2018 16:11:58 GMT -5
I don't get giving him away when he has only given up 2 hits, 2 walks and gotten 9 strikeouts in 7.1 innings. Couldn't we wait to see if his move to the bullpen meant anything? I hope the PTBNL is something that makes me shut up about it and not just $50K which does absolutely nothing for anyone but John Henry. I mean your two statements are kind of contradicting each other. You don't even know what the return is and yet you're upset over "giving him away." Right, because PTBNL is usually nothing. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2018 16:20:24 GMT -5
I mean your two statements are kind of contradicting each other. You don't even know what the return is and yet you're upset over "giving him away." Right, because PTBNL is usually nothing. Eh, Marco Hernandez was the PTBNL for Doubront, so not necessarily. It won't be a top 100 guy, but that doesn't mean the PTBNL will be useless. |
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 23, 2018 17:15:44 GMT -5
Right, because PTBNL is usually nothing. Eh, Marco Hernandez was the PTBNL for Doubront, so not necessarily. It won't be a top 100 guy, but that doesn't mean the PTBNL will be useless. That's the only one of significance that I can think of in the last 40 years.(not including recent draft picks that used to have to be traded that way or players on the DL like RDLR) He was rated 17th here when acquired. Hope you're right. Usually, PTBNL or cash is equivalent to a bucket of practice balls. |
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 23, 2018 17:26:47 GMT -5
Other PTBNL the Red Sox have received:
Pedro Beato to complete the Kelly Shoppach trade
Graham Godfrey to complete the Sandy Rosario trade
Kyle Kaminska to complete the Zach Stewart trade
This is hard to look up since PTBNL aren't always updated later on.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 23, 2018 17:55:42 GMT -5
The thing that I'll remember about Elias while he was here is that the Sox had no idea how he would succeed in the majors, and they still don't know.
Elias will be the ultimate "tweener" that I will ever see.
Hopefully Dave can find a good PBTNL. He found a good one in Luis Ysla a few years ago, even if he couldn't last on the 40 man roster, but that was a great kind of PTBNL to get in a small deal.
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Post by swingingbunt on Apr 23, 2018 17:59:03 GMT -5
George Kottaras was a PTBNL who amounted to very little as opposed to nothing at all.
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Post by ramireja on Apr 23, 2018 19:01:55 GMT -5
George Kottaras was a PTBNL who amounted to very little as opposed to nothing at all. Same with Beato for that matter. In fact, Pedro Beato's Red Sox contributions look a lot like.....Roenis Elias's Red Sox contributions. |
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Apr 23, 2018 19:30:22 GMT -5
30 years old this summer
Out of options after this year
.... He'll be back on waivers or a milfa soon. Likely
Might be a super 2 Arb eligible for 2019, which would make him a non-tender candidate
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Post by iakovos11 on Apr 23, 2018 19:31:53 GMT -5
I mean your two statements are kind of contradicting each other. You don't even know what the return is and yet you're upset over "giving him away." Right, because PTBNL is usually nothing. I'm sure they tried to get the best return possible. But as was pointed out, unless he's getting a chance to get out hitters at the major league level (and he's a ways down that list for the Sox right now), nobody is going to give Boston much. My guess is they have a list of a few names from Seattle that are intriguing to them. Maybe a lottery ticket guy or perhaps a highish floor guy with options. Flip no control into 3 years of control. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 20:33:44 GMT -5
Hopefully we get a decent prospect out of this. Looking at the Mariners prospect list, I'm not sure who would be an even match, but I know very little about those guys.
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