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Post by grandsalami on Jun 30, 2018 15:42:34 GMT -5
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 30, 2018 16:17:59 GMT -5
While we're at it, we should spend half of the games running the bases clockwise for equality.
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 30, 2018 17:18:42 GMT -5
First they came for the lefthanders, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't lefthanded...
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 30, 2018 17:24:49 GMT -5
Well I do hate the shift as much as I hate guys who cannot stay inside the ball and beat the shift.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 30, 2018 18:12:54 GMT -5
Is anyone wondering why Scott Boras is making a opinon about this subject?
He doesn't care if it wasn't affecting his clients in a free agent year.
Go check out Harper's batting average. That's why he's begrudging the shift at the moment.
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Post by dawnbringr on Jun 30, 2018 18:26:01 GMT -5
Oh geez...
I never knew that Borass was also a brain-dead leftist.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 30, 2018 19:41:09 GMT -5
Oh geez... I never knew that Borass was also a brain-dead leftist. Wow I am sure Joe Mccarthy would be proud of you.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 30, 2018 21:36:03 GMT -5
Is anyone wondering why Scott Boras is making a opinon about this subject? He doesn't care if it wasn't affecting his clients in a free agent year. Go check out Harper's batting average. That's why he's begrudging the shift at the moment. Every time Boras opens his mouth there is a financial motive tied to his statement somewhere within his words. He is the bottom of the barrel as far as am concerned personally.
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Post by patford on Jun 30, 2018 21:40:30 GMT -5
It's always been my opinion that extreme infield shifts shouldn't be allowed. Two infielders should have to be on either side of second base . I never thought about the left handed bias before but it makes perfect sense. You simply can not vacate 1B while 3B can be left uncovered.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 30, 2018 21:44:06 GMT -5
Sounds like there should be a nationwide march for these pour tortured souls sometime soon.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 30, 2018 21:49:16 GMT -5
Practice bunting or make an adjustment, this is baseball not kindergarten.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 30, 2018 21:53:49 GMT -5
The safety concern bit was utterly fantastic, I love when cynicism gets so extreme you don't even know what you're talking about anymore.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 30, 2018 23:19:52 GMT -5
The shift is the best thing to happen to baseball in a hundred years. If you hate it, you just hate equality. Scott Boras is a joke and if you give him a second of your time, he's won.
It's insane that anyone thinks you can, or even should, have a rule that dictates precisely where the defensive fielders should be. Let's disallow curveballs, bunts, stolen bases and slides, too.
Someone draft up a rule that makes any sense. You want two fielders to the left side of second base? OK. I'll just have them start there and then take ten steps towards the outfield as the pitcher makes his windup. What a waste of time. Learn to bunt, you bums.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 30, 2018 23:43:38 GMT -5
Basketball has many rules that favor offense, as does Football. It just makes sense. Much more enjoyable watching teams score than great D. Things like the 3 second rule in Basketball really opened up the game, no touching after 5 yards and no illegal contact opened up passing in the NFL.
I just have to ask how is the shift the best thing to happen to Baseball in a hundred years? The DH and wildcards were much better for baseball than some stupid shift.
Do we really want more bunting in Baseball?
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 30, 2018 23:49:10 GMT -5
Basketball has many rules that favor offense, as does Football. It just makes sense. Much more enjoyable watching teams score than great D. Things like the 3 second rule in Basketball really opened up the game, no touching after 5 yards and no illegal contact opened up passing in the NFL. I just have to ask how is the shift the best thing to happen to Baseball in a hundred years? The DH and wildcards were much better for baseball than some stupid shift. Do we really want more bunting in Baseball? The NBA when it had illegal defense rules was almost unwatchable. We already have a rule that says the pitcher plus 7 fielders need to be between the plate, the outfield fence and teh foul lines. Imagine creating arbitrary additional rules that say the designated shortstop (define shortstop in the rulebook now) needs to be in a 2 degrees slice. Designated spots on the field where fielders need to be positioned even tough we have data that says David Ortiz hits the ball on the right side 88 pct of the time. OK, makes sense. It took baseball teams 140 years to figure out that certain players hit the ball to certain spots. It took basketball teams 80 years to discover that 3>2. Football teams still punt. Why ruin the glacial speed of innovation? The DH is great except half the league doesn't use it. The Wild Card is whatever. It's fun but what makes it an improvement over the old system? Why not have 3 wild card teams then? It's one thing to have a rule about postseason play and roster construction, it's entirely different to arbitrarily decide where teams should put their position players. You have a pitcher, catcher and 7 fielders—position them as you see fit. Every single team has data that says shifting your defense where the batter is likely to hit it is beneficial. Now we want to make a rule that says you can't do that? What a joke. Let's disallow relief pitchers too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 1, 2018 1:06:05 GMT -5
Basketball has many rules that favor offense, as does Football. It just makes sense. Much more enjoyable watching teams score than great D. Things like the 3 second rule in Basketball really opened up the game, no touching after 5 yards and no illegal contact opened up passing in the NFL. I just have to ask how is the shift the best thing to happen to Baseball in a hundred years? The DH and wildcards were much better for baseball than some stupid shift. Do we really want more bunting in Baseball? The NBA when it had illegal defense rules was almost unwatchable. We already have a rule that says the pitcher plus 7 fielders need to be between the plate, the outfield fence and teh foul lines. Imagine creating arbitrary additional rules that say the designated shortstop (define shortstop in the rulebook now) needs to be in a 2 degrees slice. Designated spots on the field where fielders need to be positioned even tough we have data that says David Ortiz hits the ball on the right side 88 pct of the time. OK, makes sense. It took baseball teams 140 years to figure out that certain players hit the ball to certain spots. It took basketball teams 80 years to discover that 3>2. Football teams still punt. Why ruin the glacial speed of innovation? The DH is great except half the league doesn't use it. The Wild Card is whatever. It's fun but what makes it an improvement over the old system? Why not have 3 wild card teams then? It's one thing to have a rule about postseason play and roster construction, it's entirely different to arbitrarily decide where teams should put their position players. You have a pitcher, catcher and 7 fielders—position them as you see fit. Every single team has data that says shifting your defense where the batter is likely to hit it is beneficial. Now we want to make a rule that says you can't do that? What a joke. Let's disallow relief pitchers too. I will say this from watching the game on Fox today, they sure made it sound like Baseball leaders hate it and will make a change. Not all innovation is good. The 3 point shot made Basketball better. How does crazy D make baseball better? It's like the exact opposite of the 3 point shoot. It takes away hits and runs. Why is that better? Yes its smart, but that doesn't mean it makes the game better. I have no ides how exactly you fix it, but extreme shifts just aren't good. They sure aren't fun to watch. Do you really enjoy watching shifts and the results? The wildcard gets more teams into the playoffs. We won a title in 2004 because of it. More teams meant you needed more playoff teams. Whats the negative? I don't see how changing this isn't the same as Basketball not allowing Center to just sit in the paint. Numbers say that's the smart play, yet it just clogs up everything. Takes away scoring and makes games a defensive slugfest. I don't know about you, but I really enjoy todays basketball. I love watching guys like Irving, Brown, and Tatum going to the basket. That wouldn't happen if massive centers just camped out in the paint.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 1, 2018 6:03:21 GMT -5
Baseball isn't basketball and it's ridiculous to compare the two sports. I don't care what basketball does. What has been done in basketball doesn't have anything to do with what baseball should do.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jul 1, 2018 10:30:16 GMT -5
The NBA when it had illegal defense rules was almost unwatchable. We already have a rule that says the pitcher plus 7 fielders need to be between the plate, the outfield fence and teh foul lines. Imagine creating arbitrary additional rules that say the designated shortstop (define shortstop in the rulebook now) needs to be in a 2 degrees slice. Designated spots on the field where fielders need to be positioned even tough we have data that says David Ortiz hits the ball on the right side 88 pct of the time. OK, makes sense. It took baseball teams 140 years to figure out that certain players hit the ball to certain spots. It took basketball teams 80 years to discover that 3>2. Football teams still punt. Why ruin the glacial speed of innovation? The DH is great except half the league doesn't use it. The Wild Card is whatever. It's fun but what makes it an improvement over the old system? Why not have 3 wild card teams then? It's one thing to have a rule about postseason play and roster construction, it's entirely different to arbitrarily decide where teams should put their position players. You have a pitcher, catcher and 7 fielders—position them as you see fit. Every single team has data that says shifting your defense where the batter is likely to hit it is beneficial. Now we want to make a rule that says you can't do that? What a joke. Let's disallow relief pitchers too. I will say this from watching the game on Fox today, they sure made it sound like Baseball leaders hate it and will make a change. Not all innovation is good. The 3 point shot made Basketball better. How does crazy D make baseball better? It's like the exact opposite of the 3 point shoot. It takes away hits and runs. Why is that better? Yes its smart, but that doesn't mean it makes the game better. I have no ides how exactly you fix it, but extreme shifts just aren't good. They sure aren't fun to watch. Do you really enjoy watching shifts and the results? The wildcard gets more teams into the playoffs. We won a title in 2004 because of it. More teams meant you needed more playoff teams. Whats the negative? I don't see how changing this isn't the same as Basketball not allowing Center to just sit in the paint. Numbers say that's the smart play, yet it just clogs up everything. Takes away scoring and makes games a defensive slugfest. I don't know about you, but I really enjoy todays basketball. I love watching guys like Irving, Brown, and Tatum going to the basket. That wouldn't happen if massive centers just camped out in the paint. I just don't see how you can watch a game and know that you are intentionally forcing a defense into a suboptimal position for the sake of what exactly? We have data that says shifting your defense into spots where certain hitters put the ball is good. So how can you legislate that out of the game and enjoy it? When some bum lefty pulls a ball between first and second and you pan over to the manager who is pissed that he couldn't move his shortstop over to fill that gap where this bum lefty hits the ball 78 percent of the time. So fun. Also the NBA today is a million times better, which was my point. You can play significantly more inventive defense now, and if you go back and look at even high-level mid-90s games it looks archaic. Which is what baseball games look like when you arbitrarily tell defenders where they can and cannot go.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 1, 2018 12:04:54 GMT -5
The only two set defensive positions you need in baseball is a catcher and a pitcher.
You can have 5 outfielders and 3 infielders and a million other combinations. You don't take away the shifting because you'd never see stuff like that again.
I wouldn't mind more bunting in baseball. It's a lost art.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 1, 2018 16:27:11 GMT -5
I wish you could spot a fielder behind the catcher to prevent a run scoring on a passed ball/wild pitch. I think that strategy would be cool.
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Post by patford on Jul 1, 2018 18:14:40 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 1, 2018 19:13:58 GMT -5
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they implemented rules to limit shifting. Not for the reasons Boras states necessarily, but just as a way to open the game up.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Jul 2, 2018 10:15:24 GMT -5
Baseball isn't basketball and it's ridiculous to compare the two sports. I don't care what basketball does. What has been done in basketball doesn't have anything to do with what baseball should do. Baseball is a game. It's not the same as any other game, no other game is the same as any other game. It's pertinent though that other games have had rule changes with both good and bad effects. You could include baseball in this, especially if you include changes in enforcement of rules. My initial inclination on this is to leave it along and hitters will eventually adjust. I've gradually though come around to what Chris wrote below. I'm not sure precisely what the answer is but rule changes can improve a sport. If they hurt the game you can always change the rule back, but that seems unlikely if the change is to play the game the way it was played for 100 years.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 2, 2018 10:19:25 GMT -5
If a hitter keeps hitting the ball in the same place within the field of play, you should be able to put a fielder there.
It says something that Boras does such a good job getting under people's skin that his bad takes on the shift get a thread whereas everyone else's bad takes on the shift get laughed at.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 2, 2018 10:23:16 GMT -5
Instead of banning shifting, they should swap 1st and 3rd bases based on what handed batter is up.
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