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Post by telson13 on Jan 27, 2019 17:21:40 GMT -5
most everyone seems to be assuming that Barnes is going to be the 'closer' next year, assuming the bullpen roster stays as it is. I don't recall Barnes ever taking on that role full-time, not even in the minors. I checked his stats and he's got a total of two saves over his whole professional career. Is there a chance that Brasier is chosen for this role instead? I know it would seem unfair to pass Barnes over for Brasier, since Barnes has been a decent veteran Red Sox pitcher, whereas Brasier has only pitched for the Sox for less than half a season, and the rest of last season for Pawtucket, I believe. However it seems like I remember reading or hearing that Brasier was the closer for Pawtucket, and definitely was mainly a closer with every other club he's pitched for, stateside, and I believe overseas too. He's got a pretty good track record as a closer in the minors (78 saves; 100 SOpps). Would it be improper to give Brasier the majority of the save situations over Barnes? Has DD and/or Cora already specifically addressed who the closer is going to be, or if it's going to be an open competition at ST? I can't recall hearing anything from them other than stating that both Brasier and Barnes are thought to be more than competent enough to fill Kimbrel's role. I also think Brasier should be the guy to get first crack at the closer role. He closed in Pawtucket and he seems to have the mentality for the position. Plus, I'd rather not remove Barnes in his role of pitching really high leverage innings in the 7th and 8th innings and maybe coming in with men on base. Yeah, I think Barnes is their best reliever right now (certainly the most talented, not to belittle Brasier at all) and he can go multiple innings. I think mimicking Tito’s Miller-Allen ca. 2016-17 usage is probably the ideal way to maximize them both. If not for that midsummer hiccup, Barnes’s final line would’ve rivaled MLB’s truly elite relievers. He just keeps getting more consistent, and the McCullers-ing he did to Houston in the playoffs tells me he’s got even more tricks up his sleeve.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 27, 2019 18:07:52 GMT -5
What happens if Moreland gets hurt or goes 3 months OPS'ing .500 like he seems to do? A team with Moreland on it, needs a Pearce also. And I wouldn't count on Chavis or Travis or Swihart (since he only hits as a LHB) and especially not Nunez. The relief pitching at the bottom of the barrel isn't going to significantly improve this team more than their minor league depth would. Especially if they had to give up Pearce to get it. You have so many different options on offense. You can have Devers split time at 1B and 3B with Nunez, Holt, and Lin splitting time at 3B. You don't have those options with our bullpen. I'd trust Chavis being a good platoon partner over expecting our other rookie pitchers to be very good relievers. Why wouldn't you? The guy hits, its his D that has been the issue, not his offense. Heck by mid-season Dalbec could be an option at 3B, heck maybe even 1B if need be. Can't count on Swihart when he's shown he can at least hit major league pitching? Sure not close to ideal, but he's proven. Yet lets count on minor league free agent guys to fill out our bullpen. Yea that sounds smart. Heck you could always give Martinez a first base glove also, allowing a guy like Pedoria to rest at DH. The options are endless and I'd rather Martinez at 1B than the OF. Everyone needs to stop acting like there won't be a couple of these bullpen guys that go on to be very good. Acting like they won't move the neddle is laughable and only true if you have a bunch of 1 bwar or better pitchers in our bullpen. How many of those do you think we have? I think the likelihood of Lakins or Feltman being able to step in and pitch roughly as well as Ty Buttrey did last year is vastly more likely than Bobby Dalbec making even remotely consistent contact against MLB pitching. I don’t think anyone is saying that there’s no chance one of those FA relievers could move the needle. I think it’s more that people see the likelihood of the Sox signing the guy who *does*, relative to Hembree, Workman, et al as being substantially less likely than Nunez et al providing sufficient production to make up for a major positional loss. For example, if the Sox were convinced Swihart can produce in line with his early career, they’d probably have shipped Vazquez already. It’s pretty clear the team thinks that if they sign a half-dozen minor league guys/reclamation projects, they’ll be more likely to find that “good” performer than they would spending that same outlay on a single reliever. They’re using volume to limit risk. Your argument presupposes that Brach, Kelley, whoever is GOING to be good. That’s not the case...they could easily be middling or bad.
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Post by soxjim on Jan 27, 2019 22:52:28 GMT -5
I think the disconnect here is that you don’t think sub-par offense at first base is a problem for this team, and the rest of us do. I think one thing to think about is that it's likely the Red Sox don't quite get the historic output from the combo of Betts and JDM that they did last year. If so they need the slack picked up. This would be helped by improvement everywhere else which is possible, but 1b is one of those areas. You figure you can't get less out of the catching offensively. You'd hope that Pedroia is mostly back and that they can be at least better than last year. You hope that JBJ builds on what he did in the 2nd half, that Benni blossoms, and that 1b is stabilized so they're not searching like they did last year when Hanley wasn't what he once was and Travis wasn't the answer. Of course the biggest addition to the offense would be the maturation of Devers at 3b. The Red Sox really didn't address 2b (hoping Pedroia is healthy) or catcher (hoping for regression to the mean there somewhat) so keeping 1b stable is important. I'd expect Beni to also improve.
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Post by sparkygian on Jan 28, 2019 5:19:01 GMT -5
Seems logical for the team/DD to say that there is absolutely no expectations for any of the Lakins/Feltman/Hernandez/Shawaryn types of prospects to be counted on in any significant way for the upcoming situation. Seems like that would be the right thing to say, politically speaking, especially since none of them are very highly regarded prospects, as far as making it onto top 100 lists. Putting pressure on them before they're 'definitely' ready for MLB is certainly risky. I'd be willing to bet though, that secretly DD is 'gambling' that one of them will come through for the Sox in the second half of the season. Especially Lakins.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 28, 2019 7:01:26 GMT -5
Seems logical for the team/DD to say that there is absolutely no expectations for any of the Lakins/Feltman/Hernandez/Shawaryn types of prospects to be counted on in any significant way for the upcoming situation. Seems like that would be the right thing to say, politically speaking, especially since none of them are very highly regarded prospects, as far as making it onto top 100 lists. Putting pressure on them before they're 'definitely' ready for MLB is certainly risky. I'd be willing to bet though, that secretly DD is 'gambling' that one of them will come through for the Sox in the second half of the season. Especially Lakins. It's just something you would say as GM. You don't want to come out and say those things because next thing you know Feltman and Lakins is all of a sudden having shoulder problems and the other is going to get Tommy John surgery. You came and said you expected one of the young guys to come up to help in the bullpen and all of a sudden no one came up due to injuries or innefectivnes in the minors. You know the Sox are secretly hoping all 3 (at least 2) are in a position to make a jump and a push to make the big league roster at some point in 2019 though.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 28, 2019 13:20:14 GMT -5
Seems logical for the team/DD to say that there is absolutely no expectations for any of the Lakins/Feltman/Hernandez/Shawaryn types of prospects to be counted on in any significant way for the upcoming situation. Seems like that would be the right thing to say, politically speaking, especially since none of them are very highly regarded prospects, as far as making it onto top 100 lists. Putting pressure on them before they're 'definitely' ready for MLB is certainly risky. I'd be willing to bet though, that secretly DD is 'gambling' that one of them will come through for the Sox in the second half of the season. Especially Lakins. It's just something you would say as GM. You don't want to come out and say those things because next thing you know Feltman and Lakins is all of a sudden having shoulder problems and the other is going to get Tommy John surgery. You came and said you expected one of the young guys to come up to help in the bullpen and all of a sudden no one came up due to injuries or innefectivnes in the minors. You know the Sox are secretly hoping all 3 (at least 2) are in a position to make a jump and a push to make the big league roster at some point in 2019 though. Exactly. They might not be “counting” on it, but you’d better believe Lakins gets a long look in ST and he, Feltman, Shawaryn, maybe Houck/Hernandez...get their shots over the summer if they’re pushing for them. It’s something to keep in their back pocket.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 28, 2019 14:22:53 GMT -5
It's just something you would say as GM. You don't want to come out and say those things because next thing you know Feltman and Lakins is all of a sudden having shoulder problems and the other is going to get Tommy John surgery. You came and said you expected one of the young guys to come up to help in the bullpen and all of a sudden no one came up due to injuries or innefectivnes in the minors. You know the Sox are secretly hoping all 3 (at least 2) are in a position to make a jump and a push to make the big league roster at some point in 2019 though. Exactly. They might not be “counting” on it, but you’d better believe Lakins gets a long look in ST and he, Feltman, Shawaryn, maybe Houck/Hernandez...get their shots over the summer if they’re pushing for them. It’s something to keep in their back pocket. Don't disagree, but I would think that the concern is how many games might slip away if the bullpen is unsettled between now and August/September. Unfortunately for the Sox they're not in a weak division where they can experiment a ton, and then come in with 93 wins and waltz to the division title. They're up against NY who won 100 last year and is likely to be better. That Wild Card game doesn't have to be a killer but it's definitely not something you want to have to play in. There is just so little room for error in the division race in the AL East unfortunately.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 28, 2019 17:13:52 GMT -5
You have so many different options on offense. You can have Devers split time at 1B and 3B with Nunez, Holt, and Lin splitting time at 3B. You don't have those options with our bullpen. I'd trust Chavis being a good platoon partner over expecting our other rookie pitchers to be very good relievers. Why wouldn't you? The guy hits, its his D that has been the issue, not his offense. Heck by mid-season Dalbec could be an option at 3B, heck maybe even 1B if need be. Can't count on Swihart when he's shown he can at least hit major league pitching? Sure not close to ideal, but he's proven. Yet lets count on minor league free agent guys to fill out our bullpen. Yea that sounds smart. Heck you could always give Martinez a first base glove also, allowing a guy like Pedoria to rest at DH. The options are endless and I'd rather Martinez at 1B than the OF. Everyone needs to stop acting like there won't be a couple of these bullpen guys that go on to be very good. Acting like they won't move the neddle is laughable and only true if you have a bunch of 1 bwar or better pitchers in our bullpen. How many of those do you think we have? I wouldn't count on Swihart to platoon with Moreland because Swihart's dominant hitting side is also left handed. Devers also would be in that position if you're moving him over to put Nunez at 3B. Maybe Chavis can make the jump, but I certainly wouldn't count on either he or Travis to be the platoon partner that Moreland really needs. The jump from AAA to the majors is huge for someone like Chavis who has a lot of questions that we can only hope will be resolved (instead of counted on) at this point. He also could use regular playing time for further development. The short side of a platoon isn't ideal for that. Have we not established that relief pitchers who sign one year $3 million deals do not reliably provide 1 WAR seasons? If they did, they'd be getting a lot more. They're about as likely to not even belong in the majors as they are to have a 1 win season. Holland, Kelley and Sipp will show you that if you look at their recent history. Hell, even Cody Allen was replacement level last season. A year ago Pearce was coming off a replacement level season and is now age 36. There's zero gurantees in Baseball. Yet I'd say the odds of guys like Brach, Wilson, Holland, Madson, heck even Kelley, Sipp, Romo having 1 war seasons or better is rather good. A few of those guys are going to do it. If you signed two of them the odds are rather good. I just have to ask, why is the jump from AAA to the major big for Chavis, yet everyone acts like its nothing for our young pitchers? The question on Chavis are his D, not his bat. Heck in my scenario your only counting on him being a part time player. I just have to laugh because our lone top 100 prospect who is that because of his bat is being treated like he's less of a bet than a guy like Feltman. No one is acting like he can help next year, yet almost everyone expects a guy that hasn't even pitched in AA to be in our bullpen.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 28, 2019 17:24:12 GMT -5
You have so many different options on offense. You can have Devers split time at 1B and 3B with Nunez, Holt, and Lin splitting time at 3B. You don't have those options with our bullpen. I'd trust Chavis being a good platoon partner over expecting our other rookie pitchers to be very good relievers. Why wouldn't you? The guy hits, its his D that has been the issue, not his offense. Heck by mid-season Dalbec could be an option at 3B, heck maybe even 1B if need be. Can't count on Swihart when he's shown he can at least hit major league pitching? Sure not close to ideal, but he's proven. Yet lets count on minor league free agent guys to fill out our bullpen. Yea that sounds smart. Heck you could always give Martinez a first base glove also, allowing a guy like Pedoria to rest at DH. The options are endless and I'd rather Martinez at 1B than the OF. Everyone needs to stop acting like there won't be a couple of these bullpen guys that go on to be very good. Acting like they won't move the neddle is laughable and only true if you have a bunch of 1 bwar or better pitchers in our bullpen. How many of those do you think we have? I think the likelihood of Lakins or Feltman being able to step in and pitch roughly as well as Ty Buttrey did last year is vastly more likely than Bobby Dalbec making even remotely consistent contact against MLB pitching. I don’t think anyone is saying that there’s no chance one of those FA relievers could move the needle. I think it’s more that people see the likelihood of the Sox signing the guy who *does*, relative to Hembree, Workman, et al as being substantially less likely than Nunez et al providing sufficient production to make up for a major positional loss. For example, if the Sox were convinced Swihart can produce in line with his early career, they’d probably have shipped Vazquez already. It’s pretty clear the team thinks that if they sign a half-dozen minor league guys/reclamation projects, they’ll be more likely to find that “good” performer than they would spending that same outlay on a single reliever. They’re using volume to limit risk. Your argument presupposes that Brach, Kelley, whoever is GOING to be good. That’s not the case...they could easily be middling or bad. Buttrey was worth .1 bwar last year. I mean if that is what you expect, I have zero issues with that. That won't solve our bullpen issues though. My main issue is it's a volume approach of guys signed to minor league deals with like half of them coming off of major injuries. Historically that's what good teams do to build depth, not day one bullpen guys. If I knew that the two biggest names in Simth and Thornburg were healthy and 100% back from injury I wouldn't mind. Yet it's not just can they pitch good, it's will they ever be the same? That is my issue we didn't just add guys that had an off year, we added a ton of injury questions. Given Thornburg and Smiths deals the Red Sox have major questions themselves and rightfully so.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 28, 2019 18:22:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't count on Swihart to platoon with Moreland because Swihart's dominant hitting side is also left handed. Devers also would be in that position if you're moving him over to put Nunez at 3B. Maybe Chavis can make the jump, but I certainly wouldn't count on either he or Travis to be the platoon partner that Moreland really needs. The jump from AAA to the majors is huge for someone like Chavis who has a lot of questions that we can only hope will be resolved (instead of counted on) at this point. He also could use regular playing time for further development. The short side of a platoon isn't ideal for that. Have we not established that relief pitchers who sign one year $3 million deals do not reliably provide 1 WAR seasons? If they did, they'd be getting a lot more. They're about as likely to not even belong in the majors as they are to have a 1 win season. Holland, Kelley and Sipp will show you that if you look at their recent history. Hell, even Cody Allen was replacement level last season. A year ago Pearce was coming off a replacement level season and is now age 36. There's zero gurantees in Baseball. Yet I'd say the odds of guys like Brach, Wilson, Holland, Madson, heck even Kelley, Sipp, Romo having 1 war seasons or better is rather good. A few of those guys are going to do it. If you signed two of them the odds are rather good. I just have to ask, why is the jump from AAA to the major big for Chavis, yet everyone acts like its nothing for our young pitchers? The question on Chavis are his D, not his bat. Heck in my scenario your only counting on him being a part time player. I just have to laugh because our lone top 100 prospect who is that because of his bat is being treated like he's less of a bet than a guy like Feltman. No one is acting like he can help next year, yet almost everyone expects a guy that hasn't even pitched in AA to be in our bullpen. Pitchers come up all the time and do well immediately. Brasier did, Austin Maddux did the year before. Marcus Walden and Bobby Poyner were serviceable. How many hitters without an elite hit tool do? I'm going to appeal to authority here and say that DDo agrees with me and disagrees with you. He has a lot more information than you do. Going into the season without a platoon 1B to help Moreland would be a crime against humanity. Also, I'm going to bet they are not done yet and will get a decent relief pitcher or two for Swihart.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 28, 2019 18:46:21 GMT -5
Kelley gone now too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 28, 2019 19:33:58 GMT -5
Geez, not even Shawn Kelley at this point. Other than Greg Holland, is there anybody left out there even worth looking at? They wouldn't even spend $3 million to try to improve the bullpen.
At this point they're not signing anybody. I just hope the Sox bullpen isn't such a big mess that it costs them somebody like Durbin Feltman or Darwinzon Hernandez or some prospect you'd really prefer not to trade in a trade to get a high leverage reliever.
So the only other possibility would be a trade for a reliever and I can't imagine that Blake Swihart, their most valuable chip would fetch that much (reliever that can impact) in a deal.
I just hope that if the Sox do indeed go over the luxury tax limit they don't wind up regretting who they deal away and letting other relievers they could have signed for relatively cheap go unsigned.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 28, 2019 21:22:18 GMT -5
I think the likelihood of Lakins or Feltman being able to step in and pitch roughly as well as Ty Buttrey did last year is vastly more likely than Bobby Dalbec making even remotely consistent contact against MLB pitching. I don’t think anyone is saying that there’s no chance one of those FA relievers could move the needle. I think it’s more that people see the likelihood of the Sox signing the guy who *does*, relative to Hembree, Workman, et al as being substantially less likely than Nunez et al providing sufficient production to make up for a major positional loss. For example, if the Sox were convinced Swihart can produce in line with his early career, they’d probably have shipped Vazquez already. It’s pretty clear the team thinks that if they sign a half-dozen minor league guys/reclamation projects, they’ll be more likely to find that “good” performer than they would spending that same outlay on a single reliever. They’re using volume to limit risk. Your argument presupposes that Brach, Kelley, whoever is GOING to be good. That’s not the case...they could easily be middling or bad. Buttrey was worth .1 bwar last year. I mean if that is what you expect, I have zero issues with that. That won't solve our bullpen issues though. My main issue is it's a volume approach of guys signed to minor league deals with like half of them coming off of major injuries. Historically that's what good teams do to build depth, not day one bullpen guys. If I knew that the two biggest names in Simth and Thornburg were healthy and 100% back from injury I wouldn't mind. Yet it's not just can they pitch good, it's will they ever be the same? That is my issue we didn't just add guys that had an off year, we added a ton of injury questions. Given Thornburg and Smiths deals the Red Sox have major questions themselves and rightfully so. I think we probably agree on most of the bullpen “issue,” I just think I’m more sanguine on the “real” difference between what they have and potential signees in the $3-5M range, say. Like, I agree that they’d be smart to sign Madson. I think they’d be well-served to add a few more (healthy) arms, especially AAAA type starters who can be converted to relievers. And I’m all for re-upping on Kimbrel if he takes a team-friendly deal, because they have tons of money and they’re going for it. I think you’re probably right on Chavis offensively; he seems fairly close to being “not zero or less” with the bat, but Pearce is there for defensive depth, too. And Chavis is their only real option in the minors, whereas they have a bunch of pitchers with excellent stuff who could probably step in and be “not zero or less” in relief, including Lakins, Feltman, Houck, Shawaryn, and Hernandez. Two of them have at least 1/2 season in AAA, and Shawaryn is a good bet to see a substantial uptick in stuff as a reliever, not to mention be absolute hell on RHH. I certainly get your point on, say, Brasier/Barnes being out and then there being substantial drop-off to whoever fills in (in the same way it would be problematic if they didn’t have Pearce and Moreland or Beni or JBJ went down). I guess three things make me feel better about the RP situation relative to the CIF/COF situation: For one, sans Pearce, they’d have a big hole vs LHP, and they’d be very shallow in the event of another injury. Pearce/JDM gives them tremendous high-quality depth, particularly in the presence of Holt/Lin. Nunez is a wasted roster spot, IMO. And as I mentioned, the fill-in depth beyond them on the team and in the minors is either shallow or has a lot of questions. So I like the Pearce signing because in one player, they protect themselves in a huge way at four lineup spots, including DH, 1b, and the COF. Two, they have SO many relievers, even with the injury questions, they’re bound to stumble into *somebody* pretty good. There’s just a ton more depth there, even if it’s not high-quality depth. The odds are in the team’s favor, and they have a pair of coaches in Bannister and Levangie who seem quite confident in being able to maximize what they have. Because they have two swingmen (three if Wright is healthy), they also have the ability to use starters as rovers just like the postseason, especially if they’re limiting their innings to start the year. Guy goes five innings/70 pitches, and then comes in on his normal throwing day. That means that in high-leverage situations, they’ll have/be willing to use high-quality arms: 1/2/3-caliber SP which basically equates to elite relief. That will also buy time to sort through their relief corps, both MLB and MiLB, and also possibly pick up guys who become available via trade or waivers. And, three, probably most importantly, I don’t buy the line that they’re intending to go to ST as constituted, so I still think Kimbrel probably comes back on a surprisingly cheap deal. At the very least, I get the sense that there must be some confidence in Smith/Thornburg internally, not to mention Tapia, Brewer, etc., to the effect that they’re willing to play this game of chicken. Like I said, I agree that they need more bullpen options (and I’m being very careful about my use of “need,” here), but I think if it comes down to Pearce or Brach/Kelley, say, Pearce is still a tougher piece to find and acquire in-season (or produce internally) than is the Brach/Kelley combo. I guess I’m not going to worry about the bullpen until the season actually starts and if it’s still fairly barren.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 28, 2019 22:31:46 GMT -5
Buttrey was worth .1 bwar last year. I mean if that is what you expect, I have zero issues with that. That won't solve our bullpen issues though. My main issue is it's a volume approach of guys signed to minor league deals with like half of them coming off of major injuries. Historically that's what good teams do to build depth, not day one bullpen guys. If I knew that the two biggest names in Simth and Thornburg were healthy and 100% back from injury I wouldn't mind. Yet it's not just can they pitch good, it's will they ever be the same? That is my issue we didn't just add guys that had an off year, we added a ton of injury questions. Given Thornburg and Smiths deals the Red Sox have major questions themselves and rightfully so. I think we probably agree on most of the bullpen “issue,” I just think I’m more sanguine on the “real” difference between what they have and potential signees in the $3-5M range, say. Like, I agree that they’d be smart to sign Madson. I think they’d be well-served to add a few more (healthy) arms, especially AAAA type starters who can be converted to relievers. And I’m all for re-upping on Kimbrel if he takes a team-friendly deal, because they have tons of money and they’re going for it.I think you’re probably right on Chavis offensively; he seems fairly close to being “not zero or less” with the bat, but Pearce is there for defensive depth, too. And Chavis is their only real option in the minors, whereas they have a bunch of pitchers with excellent stuff who could probably step in and be “not zero or less” in relief, including Lakins, Feltman, Houck, Shawaryn, and Hernandez. Two of them have at least 1/2 season in AAA, and Shawaryn is a good bet to see a substantial uptick in stuff as a reliever, not to mention be absolute hell on RHH. I certainly get your point on, say, Brasier/Barnes being out and then there being substantial drop-off to whoever fills in (in the same way it would be problematic if they didn’t have Pearce and Moreland or Beni or JBJ went down). I guess three things make me feel better about the RP situation relative to the CIF/COF situation: For one, sans Pearce, they’d have a big hole vs LHP, and they’d be very shallow in the event of another injury. Pearce/JDM gives them tremendous high-quality depth, particularly in the presence of Holt/Lin. Nunez is a wasted roster spot, IMO. And as I mentioned, the fill-in depth beyond them on the team and in the minors is either shallow or has a lot of questions. So I like the Pearce signing because in one player, they protect themselves in a huge way at four lineup spots, including DH, 1b, and the COF. Two, they have SO many relievers, even with the injury questions, they’re bound to stumble into *somebody* pretty good. There’s just a ton more depth there, even if it’s not high-quality depth. The odds are in the team’s favor, and they have a pair of coaches in Bannister and Levangie who seem quite confident in being able to maximize what they have. Because they have two swingmen (three if Wright is healthy), they also have the ability to use starters as rovers just like the postseason, especially if they’re limiting their innings to start the year. Guy goes five innings/70 pitches, and then comes in on his normal throwing day. That means that in high-leverage situations, they’ll have/be willing to use high-quality arms: 1/2/3-caliber SP which basically equates to elite relief. That will also buy time to sort through their relief corps, both MLB and MiLB, and also possibly pick up guys who become available via trade or waivers. And, three, probably most importantly, I don’t buy the line that they’re intending to go to ST as constituted, so I still think Kimbrel probably comes back on a surprisingly cheap deal. At the very least, I get the sense that there must be some confidence in Smith/Thornburg internally, not to mention Tapia, Brewer, etc., to the effect that they’re willing to play this game of chicken. Like I said, I agree that they need more bullpen options (and I’m being very careful about my use of “need,” here), but I think if it comes down to Pearce or Brach/Kelley, say, Pearce is still a tougher piece to find and acquire in-season (or produce internally) than is the Brach/Kelley combo. I guess I’m not going to worry about the bullpen until the season actually starts and if it’s still fairly barren. I would, too, but I think that ship is sailing away. I don't think the Sox will be offering a huge 1 year deal and jump into the 250 million range before the season even begins in re: to Kimbrel. These guys don't even want to spend 2 or 3 million on a reliever at this point. I know I'd feel better if Kimbrel was coming back but I think at some point some team (most likely Philly) will come up with 3 years 40 million or something like that which the Sox won't match. Who knows? Maybe Cincy (with the Realmuto deal a possibility) or San Diego (if they can deal for Kluber and/or somehow sign Machado) will fancy themselves as contenders and go after Kimbrel is they can see he won't be commanding outrageous dollars. At this point Dombrowski has already said the Sox have lost two relievers. He's pretty much said in every way to say that Kimbrel is not coming back. If Kimbrel did come back I'd feel a lot better about the pen, not that he or the pen would be infallible, but the level of certainty in high leverage would increase to a more comfortable point for me that then you can more easily experiment with the Colten Brewers of the world or ease in the Travis Lakins of the world, or withstand some regression from a guy like Brasier. As it is right now I'd hate to think what would happen if Matt Barnes got injured.
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Post by libertine on Jan 28, 2019 23:19:15 GMT -5
The only thing that seems to make sense is they are looking at relievers in return for the catcher they end up trading.
I can see not wanting to spend big money on a reliever. But with who are gone from last year I don't understand not being willing to spend anything on a reliever...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 29, 2019 0:53:03 GMT -5
I understand the school of thought that they could be looking for a reliever for one of the catchers but what kind of reliever would the Sox be able to fetch for a guy like Swihart who despite his "potential" (he actually did perform quite well in 2015) doesn't have a great reputation as a defensive catcher and didn't hit very well? Sure he could be a heckuva investment for another team but would a team part with a valuable reliever for a gamble like Swihart? At best I would think you'd get a Colten Brewer type.
And if that's Swihart's value (and perhaps it's not) then how would Vazquez, coming off his terrible season, or Leon hitting as badly as you can hit fetch more than Swihart in trade value?
I would think the Sox would need a reliever with some track record. How does Swihart or Vazquez or Leon get you that unless you're adding other value?
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Post by libertine on Jan 29, 2019 1:35:59 GMT -5
I think they could/should/would have to add other value to get something of note. Probably (a) lower tier prospect(s) in a package, with one of the catchers, for a reliever. Look at how we got Kimbrel to begin with. I am not saying they would be going after an elite closer, like a Kimbrel, with any potential package but someone with closer/high leverage experience from a rebuilding team. But I do agree just a catcher, no matter which one, will not bring all that much back on their own.
Unless they have that much confidence on what is still there from last season, the kids on the farm, and the Colten Brewers of the world they've signed this offseason. Right now the thought of that doesn't fill me with all that much confidence. Most of the decent FA's are off the board. So what are the options?
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Post by dmaineah on Jan 29, 2019 6:41:35 GMT -5
I think they could/should/would have to add other value to get something of note. Probably (a) lower tier prospect(s) in a package, with one of the catchers, for a reliever. Look at how we got Kimbrel to begin with. I am not saying they would be going after an elite closer, like a Kimbrel, with any potential package but someone with closer/high leverage experience from a rebuilding team. But I do agree just a catcher, no matter which one, will not bring all that much back on their own. Unless they have that much confidence on what is still there from last season, the kids on the farm, and the Colten Brewers of the world they've signed this offseason. Right now the thought of that doesn't fill me with all that much confidence. Most of the decent FA's are off the board. So what are the options? Nathan Eovaldi
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 29, 2019 7:09:05 GMT -5
I think they could/should/would have to add other value to get something of note. Probably (a) lower tier prospect(s) in a package, with one of the catchers, for a reliever. Look at how we got Kimbrel to begin with. I am not saying they would be going after an elite closer, like a Kimbrel, with any potential package but someone with closer/high leverage experience from a rebuilding team. But I do agree just a catcher, no matter which one, will not bring all that much back on their own. Unless they have that much confidence on what is still there from last season, the kids on the farm, and the Colten Brewers of the world they've signed this offseason. Right now the thought of that doesn't fill me with all that much confidence. Most of the decent FA's are off the board. So what are the options? Nathan Eovaldi Lol everytime. You're uncanny with your ideas sometimes lol. You find one sentence in page 37 of a thread and there it is. Eovaldi to closer. Relentless. I give you that. At this point, it's just funny to me at least.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 29, 2019 8:57:00 GMT -5
I think they could/should/would have to add other value to get something of note. Probably (a) lower tier prospect(s) in a package, with one of the catchers, for a reliever. Look at how we got Kimbrel to begin with. I am not saying they would be going after an elite closer, like a Kimbrel, with any potential package but someone with closer/high leverage experience from a rebuilding team. But I do agree just a catcher, no matter which one, will not bring all that much back on their own. Unless they have that much confidence on what is still there from last season, the kids on the farm, and the Colten Brewers of the world they've signed this offseason. Right now the thought of that doesn't fill me with all that much confidence. Most of the decent FA's are off the board. So what are the options? Nathan Eovaldi *shoots nerf gun*
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 29, 2019 9:53:06 GMT -5
I think they could/should/would have to add other value to get something of note. Probably (a) lower tier prospect(s) in a package, with one of the catchers, for a reliever. Look at how we got Kimbrel to begin with. I am not saying they would be going after an elite closer, like a Kimbrel, with any potential package but someone with closer/high leverage experience from a rebuilding team. But I do agree just a catcher, no matter which one, will not bring all that much back on their own. Unless they have that much confidence on what is still there from last season, the kids on the farm, and the Colten Brewers of the world they've signed this offseason. Right now the thought of that doesn't fill me with all that much confidence. Most of the decent FA's are off the board. So what are the options? Nathan Eovaldi Hello: Earth to dmaineah - it's been said every which way. Did you even bother to read what others posted and their supporting comments by Eovaldi himself?
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 29, 2019 16:07:43 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 29, 2019 16:08:55 GMT -5
Wasn't he the guy who got popped for steriods twice with the Mets?
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 29, 2019 16:10:10 GMT -5
Wasn't he the guy who got popped for steriods twice with the Mets? Thrice. Reinstated from a lifetime suspension last year.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 29, 2019 16:48:05 GMT -5
I understand why the Sox are interested but the guy's a 3 time steroid loser so it'll be hard to root for a guy like that, and it's not like his numbers are overwhelming to begin with. I hope they're not looking at him as a potential closer/high leverage guy.
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