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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 9, 2018 20:32:01 GMT -5
Got a gut feeling but I think the Sox get Robertson on a two year deal. He's been connected to the Sox in almost every report. I don't think he wants to go back to the Yankees at this point.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 9, 2018 23:01:07 GMT -5
Ottavino is likely to be pricey but I'd be very happy with him and Robertson. If we got Ottavino, I'd prefer Kelly but mostly for homer reasons. . . . Better yet, sign Ottavino, Robertson and Kelly then trade Workman and Hembree for prospects. Our pen would be stacked in Boston and Pawtucket.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2018 2:19:15 GMT -5
MLBRumor's writeup: It’s “believed” that free-agent reliever Adam Ottavino is near the top of Boston’s bullpen wish list, Jon Heyman of Fancred tweets. The same is true of the previously reported David Robertson, per Heyman. With closer Craig Kimbrel and setup man Joe Kelly as their best remaining free agents, it’s no surprise that the world champion Red Sox are exploring the top of the market for bullpen help. Those two led full-time Red Sox relievers in innings pitched last season, and Kimbrel was particularly effective. The 33-year-old Ottavino may have been even better, though, as the former Rockie was among the game’s elite relievers in 2018 despite having to pitch his home games at the hitter-friendly Coors Field. Ottavino placed fourth among relievers in average exit velocity against (84.9 mph), sixth in fWAR (2.0), 11th in K/9 (12.98, against 4.17 BB/9), 13th in innings (77 2/3) and 17th in ERA (2.43), putting himself in position to score a lucrative contract in free agency.
www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/12/pitching-rumors-bosox-ottavino-giants-kikuchi-rangers.htmlADD: www.mlb.com/player/adam-ottavino-493603Adam Ottavino Bio. Adam Robert Ottavino … Brooklyn native lives in New York with his wife Brette and daughter Bradley … attended Northeastern University in Boston . . . Something I didn't know.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2018 18:22:37 GMT -5
So the Sox lost Robby Scott to waivers on a claim to the Reds.
I'm not sure if this precludes a move coming soon, but Scott is gone and I'm not exactly unhappy about it. I kind of thought his last pitch was being most likely thrown after his poor showing in September after being bad multiple times on callups.
I'm not sure if there's much of a place for Loogy's in today's baseball. Seems like sort of a waste of a pitching spot on a team.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2018 18:40:34 GMT -5
Except when the loogy is virtually unhittable by lefties, which should be the very definition of loogy. That is very valuable
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Post by soxfan50 on Dec 10, 2018 18:40:52 GMT -5
Ottavino is likely to be pricey but I'd be very happy with him and Robertson. If we got Ottavino, I'd prefer Kelly but mostly for homer reasons. . . . Better yet, sign Ottavino, Robertson and Kelly then trade Workman and Hembree for prospects. Our pen would be stacked in Boston and Pawtucket. How pricey for Ottavino? 3yrs/30 mill?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2018 18:43:25 GMT -5
Except when the loogy is virtually unhittable by lefties, which should be the very definition of loogy. That is very valuable I don't know Gerry, that still isn't real valuable. A bullpen guy who can get both RHB and LHB out while going multiple innings at times are at least double what a LOOGY is worth.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 10, 2018 18:54:15 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but spending big on the bullpen this offseason seems somewhat shortsighted and reckless. We have in-house options to try out while allocating potentially saved cash on 2020-2022 extensions. SOMEONE has to walk if we want to retain most of the core for the long haul.
Between Lakins, Feltman, Hernandez, and even Houck, I could see some effective power arms to mix in by May or June.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2018 18:57:09 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but spending big on the bullpen this offseason seems somewhat shortsighted and reckless. We have in-house options to try out while allocating potentially saved cash on 2020-2022 extensions. SOMEONE has to walk if we want to retain most of the core for the long haul. Between Lakins, Feltman, Hernandez, and even Houck, I could see some effective power arms to mix in by May or June. I have advocated signing someone they could flip after 2019. Credit to telson for coming up with that idea. Regarding Hernandez and Houck, I wouldn't start their service time early if they can help it if they think they can still start.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Dec 10, 2018 18:58:08 GMT -5
Per Silverman, DD will not be making a significant expenditure for a closer. DD indicated that they could sign a reliever with late-inning experience before Kimbrel signs somewhere. Silverman Link
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 10, 2018 18:58:19 GMT -5
Ottavino is likely to be pricey but I'd be very happy with him and Robertson. If we got Ottavino, I'd prefer Kelly but mostly for homer reasons. . . . Better yet, sign Ottavino, Robertson and Kelly then trade Workman and Hembree for prospects. Our pen would be stacked in Boston and Pawtucket. How pricey for Ottavino? 3yrs/30 mill? The Sox pen would be scary good with, as you say, some variation of Ottavino, Robertson, Barnes, Brasier, Kelly, Thornburg, Wright, Johnson. Pawtucket potential is likely scary already with Poyner, Feltman, Lakins, Houck, Brewer, Taylor, Walden, Gorst, Tapia; and Velasquez, Shawaryn, Shepherd and D. Hernandez being stretched out in the Rotation. In this scenario there really isn’t room for Hembree or Workman who have no options. However, DDo will sign them and either wait for inevitable injuries to give them room or, as you suggest, trade them against the future. They would both do well on other teams.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 10, 2018 18:58:19 GMT -5
Ottavino is likely to be pricey but I'd be very happy with him and Robertson. If we got Ottavino, I'd prefer Kelly but mostly for homer reasons. . . . Better yet, sign Ottavino, Robertson and Kelly then trade Workman and Hembree for prospects. Our pen would be stacked in Boston and Pawtucket. I like Ottavino’s arm a lot, not to mention that he’s pitched well in Avery tough environment, and he’s a Northeastern grad, which is really cool. But man, is he awful at holding runners on and generally controlling the running game. That could bite them in the a**. I’ve advocated signing three premier relievers, provided they go to three years on one only. I’d prefer Britton (3/30-35), Soria (dude had the lowest EV allowed in baseball last year and should be amenable to a two-year), and Robertson or Kelly, who I’d be ok with getting three years if it’s not too rich and he agrees to change his mix to CB/SL-heavy with about 15% CH. His non-fastball whiff rates are just stupidly good, across the board. Plus, he’s young enough that three years has significantly less risk than at 31-33, not to mention he has a rubber arm and can go multiple innings. I’m with you...sign three, trade the excess, and move one or more of those big names once Lakins and Feltman are established. Maximize bullpen strength this year, improve the farm a little, give the young guys time without pressure, and trade from excess (pretty high-value assets, too) to build the farm more, and reduce payroll in 2020.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 10, 2018 19:11:45 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but spending big on the bullpen this offseason seems somewhat shortsighted and reckless. We have in-house options to try out while allocating potentially saved cash on 2020-2022 extensions. SOMEONE has to walk if we want to retain most of the core for the long haul. Between Lakins, Feltman, Hernandez, and even Houck, I could see some effective power arms to mix in by May or June. Provided the guys they signed are 1) on market (or better, show-me) deals of ideally two but possibly three years 2) have good reputations (seems a foregone conclusion), and 3) pitch close to their reputation, they should be VERY easy to trade later on. There is a glut of high-end relief on the market this year, so it’s a buyer’s market. There are also several (Britton, Herrera, Soria, Robertson, Miller) who are older/had recent injury/performance issues, which will suppress their AAV (maybe) but also almost assuredly, length of terms. Guys like Robertson or Soria, whose performance has been very steady but who are mid-30s, and not so flashy (like, say Kelly who has helium on the strength of the postseason, Kimbrel future HOF creds, Miller his own playoff past, Britton a rep as ultra-elite just 2 years ago), could probably be gotten on fair two-year deals. That limits risk to an obtaining team, but still gives them another year of control. It’s kind of the perfect deal for a reliever you want to trade. If Lakins, Feltman, et al shove this summer, the Sox wouldn’t have any trouble flipping the relievers they’d signed unless they were pitching poorly, and even then they could probably still do it without having to pay down salary...they just wouldn’t get much back. But signing multiple relievers gives them tremendous depth (which could improve from in-house options on the farm), and provides them with a source to enrich the farm, costing nothing but money in a year where money is essentially no object.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2018 19:13:43 GMT -5
Alex Speier @alexspeier
Dombrowski, re: team’s interest in Kimbrel, notes team is already carrying a high payroll: “We’re not looking to make a per se big expenditure in that (bullpen) area.” Dombrowski says team preferred to bring Eovaldi back rather than putting money into closer.
Pete Abraham Verified account @peteabe
After our interview session with Dombrowski and Cora, pretty clear Sox aren’t waiting on Kimbrel. Willing to go to spring training without a set closer.
Evan Drellich Verified account@EvanDrellich Dombrowski acknowledged interest in a reliever, not necessarily a closer but someone with high leverage experience. Said the rotation is set.
Chris Cotillo Verified account @chriscotillo Sox are comfortable entering spring training without someone as named closer. Cited Brasier, Barnes as two internal candidates.
Alex Speier @alexspeier Dombrowski said that Team is ‘cognizant of some really important guys we want to keep long-term,’ who are eligible for free agency in next 1-2 years. Could make team more interested in short-term deals.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2018 19:15:04 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but spending big on the bullpen this offseason seems somewhat shortsighted and reckless. We have in-house options to try out while allocating potentially saved cash on 2020-2022 extensions. SOMEONE has to walk if we want to retain most of the core for the long haul. Between Lakins, Feltman, Hernandez, and even Houck, I could see some effective power arms to mix in by May or June. Provided the guys they signed are 1) on market (or better, show-me) deals of ideally two but possibly three years 2) have good reputations (seems a foregone conclusion), and 3) pitch close to their reputation, they should be VERY easy to trade later on. There is a glut of high-end relief on the market this year, so it’s a buyer’s market. There are also several (Britton, Herrera, Soria, Robertson, Miller) who are older/had recent injury/performance issues, which will suppress their AAV (maybe) but also almost assuredly, length of terms. Guys like Robertson or Soria, whose performance has been very steady but who are mid-30s, and not so flashy (like, say Kelly who has helium on the strength of the postseason, Kimbrel future HOF creds, Miller his own playoff past, Britton a rep as ultra-elite just 2 years ago), could probably be gotten on fair two-year deals. That limits risk to an obtaining team, but still gives them another year of control. It’s kind of the perfect deal for a reliever you want to trade. If Lakins, Feltman, et al shove this summer, the Sox wouldn’t have any trouble flipping the relievers they’d signed unless they were pitching poorly, and even then they could probably still do it without having to pay down salary...they just wouldn’t get much back. But signing multiple relievers gives them tremendous depth (which could improve from in-house options on the farm), and provides them with a source to enrich the farm, costing nothing but money in a year where money is essentially no object. To be fair, there are also Mark Melancon types. Along with all the dumb reliever trades the Red Sox have made in the last 5+ years. There is definitely risk involved.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2018 19:27:58 GMT -5
Dombrowski basically acknowledged Kelly's interest in the market and the Sox might get priced out here.
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Post by telson13 on Dec 10, 2018 19:28:31 GMT -5
Provided the guys they signed are 1) on market (or better, show-me) deals of ideally two but possibly three years 2) have good reputations (seems a foregone conclusion), and 3) pitch close to their reputation, they should be VERY easy to trade later on. There is a glut of high-end relief on the market this year, so it’s a buyer’s market. There are also several (Britton, Herrera, Soria, Robertson, Miller) who are older/had recent injury/performance issues, which will suppress their AAV (maybe) but also almost assuredly, length of terms. Guys like Robertson or Soria, whose performance has been very steady but who are mid-30s, and not so flashy (like, say Kelly who has helium on the strength of the postseason, Kimbrel future HOF creds, Miller his own playoff past, Britton a rep as ultra-elite just 2 years ago), could probably be gotten on fair two-year deals. That limits risk to an obtaining team, but still gives them another year of control. It’s kind of the perfect deal for a reliever you want to trade. If Lakins, Feltman, et al shove this summer, the Sox wouldn’t have any trouble flipping the relievers they’d signed unless they were pitching poorly, and even then they could probably still do it without having to pay down salary...they just wouldn’t get much back. But signing multiple relievers gives them tremendous depth (which could improve from in-house options on the farm), and provides them with a source to enrich the farm, costing nothing but money in a year where money is essentially no object. To be fair, there are also Mark Melancon types. Along with all the dumb reliever trades the Red Sox have made in the last 5+ years. There is definitely risk involved. Oh, absolutely. There always is. But I think picking steadier, older guys on short deals (Soria, Robertson) reduces that risk. The real risk is injury. I think if they’re going longer (3 yr), it should be on a younger guy like Kelly (and credit to you for pointing out a very clear path for him to get next-level) who’s been healthy for the most part, or Britton, who is formerly (recently) truly *elite* and whose value is suppressed by a very recoverable injury (the Achilles rupture). I’d plan to keep Britton around, and flip one (or both; tho I’m kinda enamored of signing and keeping Kelly now) of the two-year guys. Even following a bad year, I think they could easily find a team to take on a 1-1.3 year contract without having to pay it down...probably it just means the return is poor. But the Sox get value anyway, because of the added depth and upside in the interim.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2018 19:29:29 GMT -5
Also said in the midst of the reliever discussion (apparently, my assumption based on tweet timing):
Alex Speier @alexspeier
Dombrowski: Sox open to trading any of their 3 catchers. ‘It’s hard to carry all 3 on the big league club, but we’re also not just going to give them away.’ . . . One avenue might be to trade one of the three catchers for a cost controlled reliever.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2018 19:32:21 GMT -5
Dombrowski basically acknowledged Kelly's interest in the market and the Sox might get priced out here. I read the transcript of a WEEI interview with Kelly my yesterday (likely your this morning) which seemed to indicate that the Sox were very much in the hunt.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2018 19:34:51 GMT -5
Dombrowski basically acknowledged Kelly's interest in the market and the Sox might get priced out here. I read the transcript of a WEEI interview with Kelly my yesterday (likely your this morning) which seemed to indicate that the Sox were very much in the hunt. I think Kelly is going to need to take a discount to do it. Spending 20+ million on Kelly probably isn't a good decision.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2018 19:37:20 GMT -5
Dombrowski basically acknowledged Kelly's interest in the market and the Sox might get priced out here. Dombrowksi basically said nothing in that tweet. lol
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2018 19:40:19 GMT -5
Dombrowski basically acknowledged Kelly's interest in the market and the Sox might get priced out here. Dombrowksi basically said nothing in that tweet. lol Kelly is drawing a lot of interest. Dombrowski basically acknowledged it. That will create a market for Kelly. Just think a lot of wishful thinking with Sox fans if they think they're going to get this guy for a song.
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Post by michael on Dec 10, 2018 20:28:57 GMT -5
I read the transcript of a WEEI interview with Kelly my yesterday (likely your this morning) which seemed to indicate that the Sox were very much in the hunt. I think Kelly is going to need to take a discount to do it. Spending 20+ million on Kelly probably isn't a good decision. Unless it's $20M for ten years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2018 20:36:24 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Dec 10, 2018 21:42:36 GMT -5
No doubt in my mind that Dombrowski will make a strong pitch for Kelly, but if someone gets stupid there’s not much he can do.
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