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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 24, 2018 12:14:06 GMT -5
Dude balls out and win the WS MVP and we're complaining about his very light salary because a player nobody cares about got DFA'd? I mean come on.
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Post by juanpena on Nov 24, 2018 13:33:06 GMT -5
The competition is not sitting still. No, sittingstill is on our side and takes great pictures.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 15:01:48 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care.
The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million.
It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 24, 2018 15:10:18 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care. The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million. It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending. A bit over dramatized, no ?
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2018 15:25:37 GMT -5
If a million dollars in extra salary is the difference between getting a much-needed piece at the trade deadline and not, the problem isn’t Pearce, it’s John Henry. There’s no plausible reason that the Red Sox salary budget should be hard capped at any particular number this year. Every team has a budget, but for a team like the Red Sox, it should be a soft budget, not a hard capped one, and a few extra million dollars for Pearce shouldn’t meaningfully affect their decision making at the deadline.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 24, 2018 15:35:23 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care. The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million. It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending. My only question what makes you think it will cost us a reliever? They blew by 237 last year and even had a deal lined up for a reliever that fell through. You'd have a good point if we didn't make moves last year because of the 237 line, but they just didn't care. What makes this year different? We won't be capped this year and 10 spots on a draft pick just isn't much when chasing a Championship. Just because the Rays release a guy that was due 5.25 million doesn't mean much. They are one of the poorest teams in Baseball and we are one of the richest. If you like Cron more OK, but the money is nothing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 24, 2018 15:41:49 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care. The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million. It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending. Didn't realize that the cheapskate Rays set the market for anybody. They're not willing to pay $35 million for Bryce Harper, so that means nobody should overpay to get him - because the Rays say so. Think about how little sense that makes. The cost of finding a platoon partner for Moreland will run the Sox 3 - 4 million and the odds are they'd get a lesser player and if they do and he isn't doing the job then it will cost more to replace him and then get the reliever you're talking about. Pedro, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is a little out there. THe Sox got a great deal for the perfect player that fits them perfectly for 2019, a season where they can spend whatever the hell they want as long as they don't do the same thing in 2020. I fail to see the issue here. Frankly I'm surprised Pearce didn't take his time and see if he could get a higher annual salary or more likely a 2 year commitment but the guy loved being in Boston so much all he cared was that he came back - so let's punish a guy for doing a great job last season, one he's capable of doing this year, and pay him less, so the Sox can prove how efficient they are - just like the market setting Rays franchise?!? Huh?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 15:45:51 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care. The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million. It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending. My only question what makes you think it will cost us a reliever? That's the thing, the Sox might blow past the payroll of last year's team to begin the season. We don't know the Sox spending limit on a payroll. This is uncharted territory for the Sox. The Sox just went past the 237 mark last year or so it seems. This year they are blowing doors way past it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 15:48:24 GMT -5
If a million dollars in extra salary is the difference between getting a much-needed piece at the trade deadline and not, the problem isn’t Pearce, it’s John Henry. There’s no plausible reason that the Red Sox salary budget should be hard capped at any particular number this year. Every team has a budget, but for a team like the Red Sox, it should be a soft budget, not a hard capped one, and a few extra million dollars for Pearce shouldn’t meaningfully affect their decision making at the deadline. This is what I hope what happens, but we don't know if this is actually the case or not. How much does Henry want to spend on one team in a year? We are about to find out.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Nov 24, 2018 17:35:54 GMT -5
If a million dollars in extra salary is the difference between getting a much-needed piece at the trade deadline and not, the problem isn’t Pearce, it’s John Henry. There’s no plausible reason that the Red Sox salary budget should be hard capped at any particular number this year. Every team has a budget, but for a team like the Red Sox, it should be a soft budget, not a hard capped one, and a few extra million dollars for Pearce shouldn’t meaningfully affect their decision making at the deadline. This is what I hope what happens, but we don't know if this is actually the case or not. How much does Henry want to spend on one team in a year? We are about to find out. Imagine this 2019 offense, Pedro, including bench: Betts. H, *, SS, GG Beni, H, (GG) JDM. *, SS, SS Bogaerts. H, *, SS Bradley, Nunez. H, *, GG Moreland, Pearce. *, (SS). GG Pedroia, Holt. H,**, SS, GG Vasquez, Swihart/Leon. H Bradley. H, *, GG It is an amazing lineup: “H” is homegrown, * is All Star, SS is Silver Slugger, and I threw in GG to show that defense is also considered pretty good at 1B, 2B, LF, CF, RF. Those in parentheses got votes. No need to mess with this team when DDo has already expressed the likelihood of exceeding the cap in 2019. I was going over some old posts and podcasts from several seasons. A recurring theme discussed how loose, motivated and confident certain players can make a team, historically. Among those mentioned were Papi, Pedroia, Kelly, Holt, Nunez, Sale, JDM and big praise for, wait for it, Pearce. No wonder they pulled together as a team with all these sparkplugs in one big engine. Our WS MVP belongs here in 2019, so pay the man with gratitude and joy.
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Post by malynn19 on Nov 24, 2018 17:40:26 GMT -5
John Henry is such a terrible owner and cheapskate that's why we will lose all our players to the Yankees or Dodgers and never ever win a World Series. I wish we had a different owner that would spend more than a measly 237 Million dollars. Why can't we be more like the Athletics or Rays they win (lol, I mean they really do) with so little, they are so savvy they would of given Pearce 5.1 million and we would of saved a buck for a reliever since we needed one in the Playoffs.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 18:16:25 GMT -5
John Henry is such a terrible owner and cheapskate that's why we will lose all our players to the Yankees or Dodgers and never ever win a World Series. I wish we had a different owner that would spend more than a measly 237 Million dollars. Why can't we be more like the Athletics or Rays they win (lol, I mean they really do) with so little, they are so savvy they would of given Pearce 5.1 million and we would of saved a buck for a reliever since we needed one in the Playoffs. Literally no one even insinuated any of this. John Henry is the best owner in Sox history. That isn't the problem here. Needs arise in the middle of a season. Maybe you need a middle infielder, or a starting pitcher, or whatever. Where should you be overspending? That's the potential 260 million dollar question here. Everywhere and act like there's no budget? Okay fine. Let the ridiculous snark continue. Let's see what happens on the 2019 trade deadline. Add- It's a completely fair question to ask how much money one team has to spend on one single season, especially in a ERA now where the CBA is punishing teams more than ever for spending.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 24, 2018 18:47:39 GMT -5
My only question what makes you think it will cost us a reliever? That's the thing, the Sox might blow past the payroll of last year's team to begin the season. We don't know the Sox spending limit on a payroll. This is uncharted territory for the Sox. The Sox just went past the 237 mark last year or so it seems. This year they are blowing doors way past it. You know the upper CBT tax level is 246m next year right? They've got like 20 million to play with, and that's assuming they keep every RP and catcher currently on the roster (both doubtful).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 18:53:16 GMT -5
That's the thing, the Sox might blow past the payroll of last year's team to begin the season. We don't know the Sox spending limit on a payroll. This is uncharted territory for the Sox. The Sox just went past the 237 mark last year or so it seems. This year they are blowing doors way past it. You know the upper CBT tax level is 246m next year right? They've got like 20 million to play with, and that's assuming they keep every RP and catcher currently on the roster (both doubtful). I thought it only went up by 2 or 3 million from the year prior? Either way, you're blowing way past that figure if you're resigning Eovaldi and a closer.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 24, 2018 19:09:30 GMT -5
My only question what makes you think it will cost us a reliever? That's the thing, the Sox might blow past the payroll of last year's team to begin the season. We don't know the Sox spending limit on a payroll. This is uncharted territory for the Sox. The Sox just went past the 237 mark last year or so it seems. This year they are blowing doors way past it. If they do what's the worry? They have more than enough revenue and just made a crap ton more after winning a Championship. They could go to 300 million and still likely make a ton of money. Perfect time to do if teams like the Yankees and Dodgers really have tight budgets. Its the smart play to maybe slightly overpay guys you really want on one year deals. I'd go crazy if I was the Red Sox owner right now with one year deals. Given the uncertainty of next year and the market it just makes sense. At the same time I find it hard to believe we even overpaid Pierce. Tampa doesn't set the market, you'd have a point if teams like the Dodgers or Yankees were dumping players like Cron over 5.25 million. That team had an opening day payroll of 78 million last year, we were like 235 million. Its apples to oranges my friend. It certainly won't stop them from making trades at the deadline.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 19:50:23 GMT -5
That's the thing, the Sox might blow past the payroll of last year's team to begin the season. We don't know the Sox spending limit on a payroll. This is uncharted territory for the Sox. The Sox just went past the 237 mark last year or so it seems. This year they are blowing doors way past it. If they do what's the worry? They have more than enough revenue and just made a crap ton more after winning a Championship. They could go to 300 million and still likely make a ton of money. Perfect time to do if teams like the Yankees and Dodgers really have tight budgets. Its the smart play to maybe slightly overpay guys you really want on one year deals. I'd go crazy if I was the Red Sox owner right now with one year deals. Given the uncertainty of next year and the market it just makes sense. At the same time I find it hard to believe we even overpaid Pierce. Tampa doesn't set the market, you'd have a point if teams like the Dodgers or Yankees were dumping players like Cron over 5.25 million. That team had an opening day payroll of 78 million last year, we were like 235 million. Its apples to oranges my friend. It certainly won't stop them from making trades at the deadline. It's basically the same argument on the Celtics side on things. Theoretically they could afford keep everyone, but realistically will they? I think the Sox are going to get that closer and probably Eovaldi if things don't blow way past 70 million in that case. Sure the Sox could afford anything theoretically. 300 million dollar payrolls and all, but realistically do they want to? I have serious doubts about that Umass my buddy. I think every dollar counts after the offseason because of how much money the Sox are going to have to spend to keep the same talent level as they did in 2018. That's what their goal is this offseason. To make one more run. It's not even my job to keep a record of John Henry's books on the 2019 season and I'm already cringing at it. That's a ton of money. John Henry has held back in the past from going too heavy on the books. The Texeira contract. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez. That's just some of the contracts he backed off of in the past. You just have to wonder if they are going to hit the brakes or they have a number they don't want to go past in 2019.
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Post by swingingbunt on Nov 24, 2018 20:20:36 GMT -5
You keep saying that we don't know the Sox payroll situation, but do you know who does? The guys that had no problem paying 6.25 to Pearce.
They certainly know more than anyone what payroll it's going to take to be successful this year, so you can probably save yourself the anxiety and drop the Chicken Little act you have going on.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 24, 2018 20:22:59 GMT -5
If they do what's the worry? They have more than enough revenue and just made a crap ton more after winning a Championship. They could go to 300 million and still likely make a ton of money. Perfect time to do if teams like the Yankees and Dodgers really have tight budgets. Its the smart play to maybe slightly overpay guys you really want on one year deals. I'd go crazy if I was the Red Sox owner right now with one year deals. Given the uncertainty of next year and the market it just makes sense. At the same time I find it hard to believe we even overpaid Pierce. Tampa doesn't set the market, you'd have a point if teams like the Dodgers or Yankees were dumping players like Cron over 5.25 million. That team had an opening day payroll of 78 million last year, we were like 235 million. Its apples to oranges my friend. It certainly won't stop them from making trades at the deadline. It's basically the same argument on the Celtics side on things. Theoretically they could afford keep everyone, but realistically will they? I think the Sox are going to get that closer and probably Eovaldi if things don't blow way past 70 million in that case. Sure the Sox could afford anything theoretically. 300 million dollar payrolls and all, but realistically do they want to? I have serious doubts about that Umass my buddy. I think every dollar counts after the offseason because of how much money the Sox are going to have to spend to keep the same talent level as they did in 2018. That's what their goal is this offseason. To make one more run. It's not even my job to keep a record of John Henry's books on the 2019 season and I'm already cringing at it. That's a ton of money. John Henry has held back in the past from going too heavy on the books. The Texeira contract. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez. That's just some of the contracts he backed off of in the past. You just have to wonder if they are going to hit the brakes or they have a number they don't want to go past in 2019. There's a difference between being fiscally prudent and not giving a player a long-term contract that they're not worth and paying a premium to give a player a one-year deal when you're probably going past the highest CBT mark anyway. John Henry can be sold on having a sky-high payroll for one more year when you consider the massive change in roster construction coming in 2020 and 2021, given that only a handful of key players currently on the roster are under contract past that point. Paying Pearce an extra couple million to take a one-year deal isn't comparable to not signing a player to a four- or five-year deal. Steve Pearce's contract will not keep them from doing anything this year. Please, just let this go.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 20:54:40 GMT -5
You keep saying that we don't know the Sox payroll situation, but do you know who does? The guys that had no problem paying 6.25 to Pearce. They certainly know more than anyone what payroll it's going to take to be successful this year, so you can probably save yourself the anxiety and drop the Chicken Little act you have going on. There's no anxiety here buddy. You make it personal a ton when it doesn't have to be. The Sox don't always make the right decisions either. I'm just not a homer. It's a discussion of the highest payroll in the history of the Boston Red Sox.
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Post by jmei on Nov 24, 2018 21:01:10 GMT -5
It's not even my job to keep a record of John Henry's books on the 2019 season and I'm already cringing at it. That's a ton of money. John Henry has held back in the past from going too heavy on the books. The Texeira contract. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez. That's just some of the contracts he backed off of in the past. You just have to wonder if they are going to hit the brakes or they have a number they don't want to go past in 2019. A one year, $6.25M deal for Steve Pearce is literally orders of magnitude separated from those contracts.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 24, 2018 21:05:59 GMT -5
It's basically the same argument on the Celtics side on things. Theoretically they could afford keep everyone, but realistically will they? I think the Sox are going to get that closer and probably Eovaldi if things don't blow way past 70 million in that case. Sure the Sox could afford anything theoretically. 300 million dollar payrolls and all, but realistically do they want to? I have serious doubts about that Umass my buddy. I think every dollar counts after the offseason because of how much money the Sox are going to have to spend to keep the same talent level as they did in 2018. That's what their goal is this offseason. To make one more run. It's not even my job to keep a record of John Henry's books on the 2019 season and I'm already cringing at it. That's a ton of money. John Henry has held back in the past from going too heavy on the books. The Texeira contract. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez. That's just some of the contracts he backed off of in the past. You just have to wonder if they are going to hit the brakes or they have a number they don't want to go past in 2019. There's a difference between being fiscally prudent and not giving a player a long-term contract that they're not worth and paying a premium to give a player a one-year deal when you're probably going past the highest CBT mark anyway. John Henry can be sold on having a sky-high payroll for one more year when you consider the massive change in roster construction coming in 2020 and 2021, given that only a handful of key players currently on the roster are under contract past that point. Paying Pearce an extra couple million to take a one-year deal isn't comparable to not signing a player to a four- or five-year deal. Steve Pearce's contract will not keep them from doing anything this year. Please, just let this go. I don't see it Chris. All of those contracts were worth the premium, the Sox just didn't want to pay it. I'll agree to disagree on overpaying on one contract isn't comparable to a multiyear deal, especially when the payroll situation is where it is. There's a history of Henry not going way past a certain point. When you're blowing past the second tax line by the time the season starts, it might create a problem in season. That's all. Take care all.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 24, 2018 21:27:06 GMT -5
Going past the second threshold is going past the second threshold whether it be by a little or by a lot.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Nov 24, 2018 23:03:13 GMT -5
If the worst case scenario is that Pearce is overpaid by 2-3 million (and only 2-3 million) I'd sign up for that with just about everyone on the roster.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 24, 2018 23:38:25 GMT -5
Yeap knew I was getting mocked. Don't care. The Sox set their own market on this player and bid against themselves most likely. The market is nontendering these players at 5 million, yet the Sox are buying at 6.25 million. It's not a extra "500 thousand" they are saving. The cost is a extra reliever at the deadline potentially unless the Sox keep spending and spending. My only question what makes you think it will cost us a reliever? They blew by 237 last year and even had a deal lined up for a reliever that fell through. You'd have a good point if we didn't make moves last year because of the 237 line, but they just didn't care. What makes this year different? We won't be capped this year and 10 spots on a draft pick just isn't much when chasing a Championship. Just because the Rays release a guy that was due 5.25 million doesn't mean much. They are one of the poorest teams in Baseball and we are one of the richest. If you like Cron more OK, but the money is nothing. Agreed. Pearce offers versatility, is playing for his hometown team, and came up big in a number of big spots (remember that series vs NY?!). They obviously liked him and wanted him to stay. Maybe they tossed a little extra cash his way for essentially that reason...it’s just a really, really good fit, on and off the field. Cron will almost assuredly get his rough arb number ($5-$6M AAV) from some team. They probably end up with similar deals. Someone could certainly argue Cron’s bona fides over Pearce’s (youth, durability), but for what the Sox wanted, Pearce was the perfect fit. He got a reasonable deal for being that fit. I, personally, am ecstatic they brought him back at a totally reasonable cost, and didn’t play hard ball over a million or two. Like, they rewarded the guy for his performance...how is that bad in any way? As you say, this team is most certainly not going to miss out on a player for that cash, at least not in 2019. They’re not going to sweat the cap until next year. I’m just really happy they treated a lifelong Sox fan who had a big part in a WS win, showed versatility and fearlessness, and really did his job about as well as it could be hoped, like a part of the family...they said “we want you here,” and showed it.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 25, 2018 11:31:50 GMT -5
The hilarious thing about this is that Pearce didn't even get a raise from last year after winning the WS MVP.
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