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6/17-6/19 Red Sox @ Twins Series Thread
cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2019 0:26:45 GMT -5
Bats should hopefully wake up against a tater waiter like Pineda
Very winnable series now. I wasn’t expecting Brewer and Brasier to lock it down but they looked competent (Brasier looked exceptional, really)
It’s not exactly a bullpen other teams fear but honestly if they go out and get a guy like Diekman for relatively cheap they might be cooking with some gas. Hell maybe they use Darwinzon as a loogy late in the season. Still no true closer but they should be able to mix and match better this way. They just need to add a lefty that can dominate LHH
Barnes/Workman/Walden/Brewer/Brasier and a lefty is good enough. It’s not ideal but you can win with it. There’s a lot of hard cutting stuff in that group that’s annoying to hit in October. Looking at 4 plus breaking balls in that group too. And all of them are 94+ when going right
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 0:56:28 GMT -5
Lol Devers is a goofball.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 4:20:03 GMT -5
This is literally a game you lose a week ago. Now, it's all spades. Baseball is a funny game.
The Sox need to keep pace though. They take the next 2 games, you most likely gain a game on Tampa and New York.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 4:47:41 GMT -5
Don’t look now, but Colten Brewer is starting to look like a “guy.” Take away a few abysmal early appearances, and he’s been pretty damn good. Still walks too many and gives up a bit of hard contact, and idk if his HR suppression is real, but they may have found something. He's had a nice run his last 7 appearances, but I wouldn't trust him just yet. Probably just depth for now at this point, which works. If Brewer is your first shuttle guy, then you're okay. The Sox still need another impact arm. A closer type would be ideal. Will Smith, Edwin Diaz, Kirby Yates, Felipe Vázquez, Ken Giles. Get one and you might be talking repeat in 2019. You would be shortening games on top of adding to the soon to be great rotation when Eovaldi gets back (unless he ends up in the bullpen). Would also love to see Derek Dietrich here to replace Nunez too.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2019 7:16:41 GMT -5
If they trade high end prospects for another reliever im jumping off the sagamore
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over against and expecting different results
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 18, 2019 8:13:14 GMT -5
I know they have there reasons but I want the Sox so badly to put Hernandez and Houck in Boston there is your lefty and righty late innings high leverage guys.
No more trading prospects for a one year rental. Because next year the Sox finally reset there payroll. They clear tha5 stupid money from Sandoval and I feel Porcello , Moreland and Pearce won’t be back. Amazing we won a title carrying about 40 million in dead money. People talk about us having the highest payroll . Which we did but it wasn’t utilized properly.
That was a good win last night.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 18, 2019 9:52:58 GMT -5
YES! Great freaking game! Let's hear about the math of the Red Sox now. Since you asked, Sox have to play .625 ball from here on out to win 95 games. According to current Fangraph projections that would get them 1st Wild Card. Using the same formula, to win the Division outright, they would need to play .659 ball the rest of the way (98 wins), or beat the NYY in their season series while playing .645 ball (97 wins), thus breaking a theoretical tie for first. Of course, these are just projections and anything can happen, though Tampa’s starting pitching overall looks better at this point than NYY’s, while the Bronx pen is elite.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 10:08:02 GMT -5
YES! Great freaking game! Let's hear about the math of the Red Sox now. Since you asked, Sox have to play .625 ball from here on out to win 95 games. According to current Fangraph projections that would get them 1st Wild Card. Using the same formula, to win the Division outright, they would need to play .659 ball the rest of the way (98 wins), or beat the NYY in their season series while playing .645 ball (97 wins), thus breaking a theoretical tie for first. Of course, these are just projections and anything can happen, though Tampa’s starting pitching overall looks better at this point than NYY’s, while the Bronx pen is elite. Red Sox are only 1.5 games back of the Yankees by pythag. And the Yankees' schedule has been far easier.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 18, 2019 10:34:48 GMT -5
When and if (big if) everyone is healthy, there's only one roster spot for Brasier and Brewer, as well as Shawaryn, Velasquez, and (cough) Thornburg.
The Sox have had the 8th best bullpen in MLB by Win Probability Added. They're 7th among playoff contenders and among the 11 serious contenders, they're 4th after the Astros, Brewers, and Rays. And they'll be adding Steven Wright.
So, the bullpen has a) has been a strength, and b) is deep and is getting deeper.
The notion that they didn't sign Adam Ottavino in the off-season (which I was sure was their plan) and have been fine without him, and yet are certain to trade players from a thin farm system for a reliever (in general a stupid idea) before the deadline, in order to improve a strength ... well, Pete Abraham seems to be angling for the memorial reward for lazy, incompetent sportswriting. (You know who it's named after, but I'm being respectful.)
I will take my chances on getting one above-average guy from Brasier, Brewer, Shawaryn, Velazquez, Hernandez, Houck, Lakins, Feltman, Mejia, and (nagging cough) Thornburg.
In the post-season, Wright's innings will be taken by starters as rovers. They didn't really trust Kimbrel last year, so the depth projects to be similar.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 18, 2019 11:16:18 GMT -5
When and if (big if) everyone is healthy, there's only one roster spot for Brasier and Brewer, as well as Shawaryn, Velasquez, and (cough) Thornburg.
The Sox have had the 8th best bullpen in MLB by Win Probability Added. They're 7th among playoff contenders and among the 11 serious contenders, they're 4th after the Astros, Brewers, and Rays. And they'll be adding Steven Wright.
So, the bullpen has a) has been a strength, and b) is deep and is getting deeper.
The notion that they didn't sign Adam Ottavino in the off-season (which I was sure was their plan) and have been fine without him, and yet are certain to trade players from a thin farm system for a reliever (in general a stupid idea) before the deadline, in order to improve a strength ... well, Pete Abraham seems to be angling for the memorial reward for lazy, incompetent sportswriting. (You know who it's named after, but I'm being respectful.)
I will take my chances on getting one above-average guy from Brasier, Brewer, Shawaryn, Velazquez, Hernandez, Houck, Lakins, Feltman, Mejia, and (nagging cough) Thornburg.
In the post-season, Wright's innings will be taken by starters as rovers. They didn't really trust Kimbrel last year, so the depth projects to be similar.
I'm pretty sanguine about the bullpen, but if it's not been as good as the Astros' or Rays' then that would call into question whether it would be a relative strength in the postseason. I don't think they have to do it, but it's not like there isn't some room for improvement. Having said that, I hope they don't go out and try to get a Proven Closer. I've loved Cora's usage of the bullpen so much this season - such a breath of fresh air after watching Kimbrel struggle outside of the pristine lab environment of a clean 9th inning. I also don't really know what else there is to improve on the team without breaking the bank, other than getting rid of Nunez, which we could do as soon as Pearce and Moreland are back. I guess our RFer has struggled a bit lately... platoon partner for him, maybe? (<-- eez joke)
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 11:31:29 GMT -5
When and if (big if) everyone is healthy, there's only one roster spot for Brasier and Brewer, as well as Shawaryn, Velasquez, and (cough) Thornburg.
The Sox have had the 8th best bullpen in MLB by Win Probability Added. They're 7th among playoff contenders and among the 11 serious contenders, they're 4th after the Astros, Brewers, and Rays. And they'll be adding Steven Wright.
So, the bullpen has a) has been a strength, and b) is deep and is getting deeper.
The notion that they didn't sign Adam Ottavino in the off-season (which I was sure was their plan) and have been fine without him, and yet are certain to trade players from a thin farm system for a reliever (in general a stupid idea) before the deadline, in order to improve a strength ... well, Pete Abraham seems to be angling for the memorial reward for lazy, incompetent sportswriting. (You know who it's named after, but I'm being respectful.)
I will take my chances on getting one above-average guy from Brasier, Brewer, Shawaryn, Velazquez, Hernandez, Houck, Lakins, Feltman, Mejia, and (nagging cough) Thornburg.
In the post-season, Wright's innings will be taken by starters as rovers. They didn't really trust Kimbrel last year, so the depth projects to be similar.
I'm pretty sanguine about the bullpen, but if it's not been as good as the Astros' or Rays' then that would call into question whether it would be a relative strength in the postseason. I don't think they have to do it, but it's not like there isn't some room for improvement. Having said that, I hope they don't go out and try to get a Proven Closer. I've loved Cora's usage of the bullpen so much this season - such a breath of fresh air after watching Kimbrel struggle outside of the pristine lab environment of a clean 9th inning. I also don't really know what else there is to improve on the team without breaking the bank, other than getting rid of Nunez, which we could do as soon as Pearce and Moreland are back. I guess our RFer has struggled a bit lately... platoon partner for him, maybe? (<-- eez joke) Howie Kendrick would be a nice Nunez replacement.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 13:22:00 GMT -5
If they trade high end prospects for another reliever im jumping off the sagamore Insanity is doing the same thing over and over against and expecting different results You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 18, 2019 14:01:47 GMT -5
If they trade high end prospects for another reliever im jumping off the sagamore Insanity is doing the same thing over and over against and expecting different results You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. They didn't trade prospects to get Foulke or Koji. They did to get Kimbrel, who was absolutely terrifying during the year they did win it with him. So... points to cdj on that one, I'd say. Side note: what's with all the "you"s all of a sudden? Makes it sound like you defected to another team or something.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 14:10:05 GMT -5
You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. They didn't trade prospects to get Foulke or Koji. They did to get Kimbrel, who was absolutely terrifying during the year they did win it with him. So... points to cdj on that one, I'd say. Side note: what's with all the "you"s all of a sudden? Makes it sound like you defected to another team or something. They couldn't have won it without those high leverage arms is my basic point. Lol sorry about the you's just wanted to put it in a better perspective of seeing it in a way he can see it himself. This team needs one more dominant arm. They're one short after Kimbrel walked. It doesn't need to necessarily need to be a closer. Will Smith is a example of a dominant arm you can get without the save attachments. The list of 5 names I mentioned are the 5 best options when it comes to relievers. You could try outside the box thinking and get a Aaron Sanchez and stick him in the rotation and move him to the bullpen later kind of thing. Basic point is, I think Dombrowski knows they're an arm short. They should go after quality, not quantity in this case. The Sox have plenty of Lakins, Brewers, Taylor's out there to fill for depth. Need someone who misses a lot of bats.
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Post by dirtdog on Jun 18, 2019 14:17:29 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 14:18:56 GMT -5
I think Velazquez is at least as good as Aaron Sanchez at this point. I don't think his 5.16 BB/9 and 7.8 K/9 are going to tick anywhere near better enough in the bullpen.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2019 14:29:10 GMT -5
If they trade high end prospects for another reliever im jumping off the sagamore Insanity is doing the same thing over and over against and expecting different results You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. Key word being “signed” And yeah it technically worked for Kimbrel. Great. We got one dominant year and two good but not great ones. SD now has a 22 yr old lefty making his debut while Kimbrel is with the cubs and we didn’t get a comp for him. And We still haven’t developed a starter in a decade. So while it worked and we got a WS (almost in spite of Kimbrel though as he wasn’t exactly good in the playoffs) it will still be painful for probably the next decade going forward.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 18, 2019 14:29:20 GMT -5
They didn't trade prospects to get Foulke or Koji. They did to get Kimbrel, who was absolutely terrifying during the year they did win it with him. So... points to cdj on that one, I'd say. Side note: what's with all the "you"s all of a sudden? Makes it sound like you defected to another team or something. They couldn't have won it without those high leverage arms is my basic point. Lol sorry about the you's just wanted to put it in a better perspective of seeing it in a way he can see it himself. This team needs one more dominant arm. They're one short after Kimbrel walked. It doesn't need to necessarily need to be a closer. Will Smith is a example of a dominant arm you can get without the save attachments. The list of 5 names I mentioned are the 5 best options when it comes to relievers. You could try outside the box thinking and get a Aaron Sanchez and stick him in the rotation and move him to the bullpen later kind of thing. Basic point is, I think Dombrowski knows they're an arm short. They should go after quality, not quantity in this case. The Sox have plenty of Lakins, Brewers, Taylor's out there to fill for depth. Need someone who misses a lot of bats. I guess the question for me is: how wide is the gap between the talent they already have, and the talent they could get without giving up one or more of the few good prospects they have? For me, I think there is a gap there, but it's pretty narrow - so for instance, to take your two examples, I don't think Sanchez would actually make them better, and I don't think Smith would come at a price I'd want to pay.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 18, 2019 16:04:19 GMT -5
If they trade high end prospects for another reliever im jumping off the sagamore Insanity is doing the same thing over and over against and expecting different results You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. They signed Eduardo Nunez and won.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:09:43 GMT -5
They couldn't have won it without those high leverage arms is my basic point. Lol sorry about the you's just wanted to put it in a better perspective of seeing it in a way he can see it himself. This team needs one more dominant arm. They're one short after Kimbrel walked. It doesn't need to necessarily need to be a closer. Will Smith is a example of a dominant arm you can get without the save attachments. The list of 5 names I mentioned are the 5 best options when it comes to relievers. You could try outside the box thinking and get a Aaron Sanchez and stick him in the rotation and move him to the bullpen later kind of thing. Basic point is, I think Dombrowski knows they're an arm short. They should go after quality, not quantity in this case. The Sox have plenty of Lakins, Brewers, Taylor's out there to fill for depth. Need someone who misses a lot of bats. I guess the question for me is: how wide is the gap between the talent they already have, and the talent they could get without giving up one or more of the few good prospects they have? For me, I think there is a gap there, but it's pretty narrow - so for instance, to take your two examples, I don't think Sanchez would actually make them better, and I don't think Smith would come at a price I'd want to pay. I think you basically take the best value out of Smith, Giles, Diaz, Vazquez, or Yates and you target one and trade for one. You walk into the postseason without upgrading, then Dombrowski is basically begging for critisism. Outside of those five arms, neither one misses enough bats or is worth the price of admission imo. You could have sign Holland in the off-season when the price tag was low and value was good, but trading prospects for a guy who might not even be that much better than what you have is more of a mistake then trading for a arm that is actually worth prospects, like a Holland.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:10:40 GMT -5
You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. They signed Eduardo Nunez and won. Yeap, and signed Julio Lugo and won. These players you highlighted actually made a huge impact in winning, so whatever.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:13:22 GMT -5
You did it with Kimbrel and won. You signed Foulke and won. You signed Koji and won. This team's depth is small until Wright is back. Wright can't help you win one postseason game either. Key word being “signed” And yeah it technically worked for Kimbrel. Great. We got one dominant year and two good but not great ones. SD now has a 22 yr old lefty making his debut while Kimbrel is with the cubs and we didn’t get a comp for him. And We still haven’t developed a starter in a decade. So while it worked and we got a WS (almost in spite of Kimbrel though as he wasn’t exactly good in the playoffs) it will still be painful for probably the next decade going forward. It won't be painful for me, neither Dombrowski. The time for signing players came and gone, the Sox cheaped out at the time. They basically walked into this year knowing that they're probably going to need to trade for a arm, while only paying half of his salary owed for the year (savings on CBT).
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 18, 2019 16:27:32 GMT -5
They signed Eduardo Nunez and won. Yeap, and signed Julio Lugo and won. These players you highlighted actually made a huge impact in winning, so whatever. Uhh, beg to differ on Kimbrel. He was awful and he was extremely lucky not to have blown multiple games in that run. And the won in '07 without a big name acquisition in the bullpen. So whatever. Mostly my issue though is that you're completely wrapped around the axle on the ideal construction of the Red Sox bullpen three and a half months from now, when that's clearly unknowable.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 16:33:09 GMT -5
Key word being “signed” And yeah it technically worked for Kimbrel. Great. We got one dominant year and two good but not great ones. SD now has a 22 yr old lefty making his debut while Kimbrel is with the cubs and we didn’t get a comp for him. And We still haven’t developed a starter in a decade. So while it worked and we got a WS (almost in spite of Kimbrel though as he wasn’t exactly good in the playoffs) it will still be painful for probably the next decade going forward. It won't be painful for me, neither Dombrowski. The time for signing players came and gone, the Sox cheaped out at the time. They basically walked into this year knowing that they're probably going to need to trade for a arm, while only paying half of his salary owed for the year (savings on CBT). They could pick up Cody Allen for nothing right now since he just got DFA'd. That's one of the guys you would have been happy with. $7 million saved.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:37:05 GMT -5
It won't be painful for me, neither Dombrowski. The time for signing players came and gone, the Sox cheaped out at the time. They basically walked into this year knowing that they're probably going to need to trade for a arm, while only paying half of his salary owed for the year (savings on CBT). They could pick up Cody Allen for nothing right now since he just got DFA'd. That's one of the guys you would have been happy with. $7 million saved. It's not a bad idea, but he would need to perform here up until the trade deadline in order to make the Sox feel as though they don't need more help beyond him.
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