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7/25-7/28 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 28, 2019 21:22:00 GMT -5
Hey man, 5-2 against Rays and Yanks. This may be an uninspiring game, but the Sox have still sent a message and the Rays lost today, so... Sorry to break it to you but the rays came back from 8-1 down Oh. Well.... still lookin’ on the brightside!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 28, 2019 21:29:05 GMT -5
LOL the key here-
GET CHAPMAN SWEATING!!! Mission accomplished.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2019 21:31:03 GMT -5
Chapman has lost like 5-6 mph in the last 2 years.
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Jul 28, 2019 21:35:25 GMT -5
bennys on fire now
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 28, 2019 21:37:09 GMT -5
Chapman is amazing. The only way you win is to sign 3 or 4 of those guys.
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Post by wildcardwillie on Jul 28, 2019 21:37:39 GMT -5
Way to break it off in your own teams ass tonight Jackie He had a very bad game tonight. Lol!
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Post by wildcardwillie on Jul 28, 2019 21:38:24 GMT -5
Wow, you all are grumpy. The last three days' slaughtering of the Yankees really wasn't enough to carry you through a single loss? Yeah but 3 wins doesnt excuse bad baseball...
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2019 21:41:28 GMT -5
Wow, you all are grumpy. The last three days' slaughtering of the Yankees really wasn't enough to carry you through a single loss? Perspective. I'm back on board with this team; however, today was ugly for a number of reasons. Number one is that Sale looked pedestrian and Darwinzon, despite the error, also didn't do much to inspire confidence in tight situations. The other big factor is, while the comeback is implausible, a sweep would have made it more interesting. It's just the hole they dug for themselves. Even ripping off these wins you're still out of sight in the division. With that said, I'm pleased, but concerned about Sale and his October contributions.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 28, 2019 21:44:19 GMT -5
Sale among the league leaders in LOSSES is the big disappointment coming out of this game - what do we have with him for the rest of this season?
Also, where did the really sloppy play come from after what we did firsts three games in this series? Very 2019 Red Sox thing to do.
Big missed opportunity tonight - momentum killer. Gotta pick ourselves back up and roll Tampa.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 28, 2019 21:45:05 GMT -5
Well, tonight was a big poop sandwich, but at least Bogey’s staying hot, and Beni really does look like he’s turned a corner. A .300/.400/.500 Benintendi would go a LONG way towards solidifying their playoff aspirations. If he gets really hot (.330/.420/.550, like his stretch pre-ASB last year), it really lengthens the lineup at takes some pressure off the other guys (Betts, JDM, Bogey, Devers). Still, it’s coming down to SP and they genuinely *need* (not just want) Sale right. Price doesn’t log enough innings and Porcello is a mess this year. Eddie’s been pretty good, but I’m not sure he’s a guy you wanna count on yet as your rotation stopper.
Fingers crossed for Diaz-Wheeler for Groome, Chatham, and a lower level lottery ticket. C’mon Trader Dave...from the guy who flinches at most prospect trades, I’m begging you!!
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 28, 2019 21:53:37 GMT -5
Well, tonight was a big poop sandwich, but at least Bogey’s staying hot, and Beni really does look like he’s turned a corner. A .300/.400/.500 Benintendi would go a LONG way towards solidifying their playoff aspirations. If he gets really hot (.330/.420/.550, like his stretch pre-ASB last year), it really lengthens the lineup at takes some pressure off the other guys (Betts, JDM, Bogey, Devers). Still, it’s coming down to SP and they genuinely *need* (not just want) Sale right. Price doesn’t log enough innings and Porcello is a mess this year. Eddie’s been pretty good, but I’m not sure he’s a guy you wanna count on yet as your rotation stopper. Fingers crossed for Diaz-Wheeler for Groome, Chatham, and a lower level lottery ticket. C’mon Trader Dave...from the guy who flinches at most prospect trades, I’m begging you!! The main reason I don’t see that trade happening is the feeling of pure bliss I get thinking about it.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 28, 2019 22:02:26 GMT -5
Well, tonight was a big poop sandwich, but at least Bogey’s staying hot, and Beni really does look like he’s turned a corner. A .300/.400/.500 Benintendi would go a LONG way towards solidifying their playoff aspirations. If he gets really hot (.330/.420/.550, like his stretch pre-ASB last year), it really lengthens the lineup at takes some pressure off the other guys (Betts, JDM, Bogey, Devers). Still, it’s coming down to SP and they genuinely *need* (not just want) Sale right. Price doesn’t log enough innings and Porcello is a mess this year. Eddie’s been pretty good, but I’m not sure he’s a guy you wanna count on yet as your rotation stopper. Fingers crossed for Diaz-Wheeler for Groome, Chatham, and a lower level lottery ticket. C’mon Trader Dave...from the guy who flinches at most prospect trades, I’m begging you!! I'll grant they need Sale to be good or they aren't making much of a playoff run. But I feel like his struggles are a little overstated. He's got a FIP of 3.40 and an xFIP of 3.02. The FIP is 5th in the AL for qualified starters and the xFIP is 2nd-best. That's including today's clunker. And if you throw out his first four starts when he was lousy - I'm inclined to throw out this team's lousy start in general, in terms of what to expect going forward - he's got a 3.24 ERA/2.69 FIP/2.54 xFIP. Last season he was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and he hasn't been that this season. But he's still an ace, and I'd still feel better about him starting a playoff game than I would about almost any other pitcher in the league.
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Post by soxjim on Jul 28, 2019 22:25:58 GMT -5
If JDM opted out, it would be a serious risk that the best offer he got was 3/$45M. I don't think there's a chance in hell he opts out. Maybe the Red Sox should pay his hitting coach to quit coaching for the Dodgers. JDM swings at a lot of crap.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 28, 2019 22:30:48 GMT -5
Lousy game, but excellent series. It's sink or swim time for the Red Sox and so far they're swimming. If they can win 3 of the next 7 games they're in pretty good shape as the schedule eases up a bit.
The concern is that Chris Sale is still not his formerly dominating self, at least not for long stretches.
Last year with Eovaldi and Porcello pitching reasonably well or better as starters the Sox didn't need Chris Sale to be The Ace or at least 1A or 1B (along with Price).
This year, if Sale can't be more dominating it will be tougher for the Red Sox to advance far in the playoffs.
At least for now, I've got my eyes peeled on the trade deadline and can the Sox pull off a Groome/Chatham deal for Diaz? I think if that can happen that could be a huge deal for the Red Sox if the HR ball doesn't overly hound Diaz - I think he can be/is a legit stud of a reliever and I think his presence takes a bit of the pressure off the rest of the pen which could be huge. The roles get more sharply defined and things fall into order more easily.
I also wonder if the Red Sox can make another quiet deal for an inexpensive platoon RH bat who can play 1b and the OF (3b would be a bonus but not necessary) without giving up much. I believe Diaz and the Pearce bat whoever that is would be the final necessary role on this team to be filled. Then it's a matter of Sale, Eovaldi, and Porcello pitching better. The offense is already doing what you'd hope for.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2019 22:40:58 GMT -5
Well, tonight was a big poop sandwich, but at least Bogey’s staying hot, and Beni really does look like he’s turned a corner. A .300/.400/.500 Benintendi would go a LONG way towards solidifying their playoff aspirations. If he gets really hot (.330/.420/.550, like his stretch pre-ASB last year), it really lengthens the lineup at takes some pressure off the other guys (Betts, JDM, Bogey, Devers). Still, it’s coming down to SP and they genuinely *need* (not just want) Sale right. Price doesn’t log enough innings and Porcello is a mess this year. Eddie’s been pretty good, but I’m not sure he’s a guy you wanna count on yet as your rotation stopper. Fingers crossed for Diaz-Wheeler for Groome, Chatham, and a lower level lottery ticket. C’mon Trader Dave...from the guy who flinches at most prospect trades, I’m begging you!! I'll grant they need Sale to be good or they aren't making much of a playoff run. But I feel like his struggles are a little overstated. He's got a FIP of 3.40 and an xFIP of 3.02. The FIP is 5th in the AL for qualified starters and the xFIP is 2nd-best. That's including today's clunker. And if you throw out his first four starts when he was lousy - I'm inclined to throw out this team's lousy start in general, in terms of what to expect going forward - he's got a 3.24 ERA/2.69 FIP/2.54 xFIP. Last season he was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and he hasn't been that this season. But he's still an ace, and I'd still feel better about him starting a playoff game than I would about almost any other pitcher in the league. I get what you're saying, but you can't simply throw out games and cherry pick stats. They still mattered and it's a big reason the Sox won't win the division without a historic collapse on NYs part. With that said, I do think that part of his early struggles may have been because of the coaching staff holding him back. I believe this is why they worked out an extension. There's no way Sale would hurt his own value without some assurances.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 28, 2019 23:25:59 GMT -5
I'll grant they need Sale to be good or they aren't making much of a playoff run. But I feel like his struggles are a little overstated. He's got a FIP of 3.40 and an xFIP of 3.02. The FIP is 5th in the AL for qualified starters and the xFIP is 2nd-best. That's including today's clunker. And if you throw out his first four starts when he was lousy - I'm inclined to throw out this team's lousy start in general, in terms of what to expect going forward - he's got a 3.24 ERA/2.69 FIP/2.54 xFIP. Last season he was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and he hasn't been that this season. But he's still an ace, and I'd still feel better about him starting a playoff game than I would about almost any other pitcher in the league. I get what you're saying, but you can't simply throw out games and cherry pick stats. They still mattered and it's a big reason the Sox won't win the division without a historic collapse on NYs part. With that said, I do think that part of his early struggles may have been because of the coaching staff holding him back. I believe this is why they worked out an extension. There's no way Sale would hurt his own value without some assurances. You can't throw out the first 20 games of the season in terms of, like, the team's record. But I think you totally can if you're asking something like "how good can we expect Chris Sale to be the rest of the season." Whatever they were doing with spring training and all that, the starters weren't ready those first few weeks. That hurt them at the time and it's why we're fighting for a wild card instead of the division, but it says nothing about how they should do going forward.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 29, 2019 0:17:35 GMT -5
Well, tonight was a big poop sandwich, but at least Bogey’s staying hot, and Beni really does look like he’s turned a corner. A .300/.400/.500 Benintendi would go a LONG way towards solidifying their playoff aspirations. If he gets really hot (.330/.420/.550, like his stretch pre-ASB last year), it really lengthens the lineup at takes some pressure off the other guys (Betts, JDM, Bogey, Devers). Still, it’s coming down to SP and they genuinely *need* (not just want) Sale right. Price doesn’t log enough innings and Porcello is a mess this year. Eddie’s been pretty good, but I’m not sure he’s a guy you wanna count on yet as your rotation stopper. Fingers crossed for Diaz-Wheeler for Groome, Chatham, and a lower level lottery ticket. C’mon Trader Dave...from the guy who flinches at most prospect trades, I’m begging you!! I'll grant they need Sale to be good or they aren't making much of a playoff run. But I feel like his struggles are a little overstated. He's got a FIP of 3.40 and an xFIP of 3.02. The FIP is 5th in the AL for qualified starters and the xFIP is 2nd-best. That's including today's clunker. And if you throw out his first four starts when he was lousy - I'm inclined to throw out this team's lousy start in general, in terms of what to expect going forward - he's got a 3.24 ERA/2.69 FIP/2.54 xFIP. Last season he was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and he hasn't been that this season. But he's still an ace, and I'd still feel better about him starting a playoff game than I would about almost any other pitcher in the league. I’m hopeful it’s just an off year. Guys have them. And you’re right about his peripherals...they’re generally pretty good. But by the eyeball test, he’s had too many Matt Young games...not the wildness, but the pitching just well enough to lose. He doesn’t feel at all reliable to me this year. It’s probably a blip, and he could get real right in a real hurry, but I’m strangely not confident with him on the mound. It’s disconcerting.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 29, 2019 0:25:33 GMT -5
I know Sale was bad, but the defense throwing up the white flag and playing like the game was over....when it wasn't.
This offense can comeback from a three run deficit. The team needs to keep that in mind even when behind in later innings.
That was the disappointment for me. And it came from Xander, Holt and JBJ three guys who are supposed to be leaders on this defense.
That's all I have to say...
Oh yeah and Arod is a complete douche
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 29, 2019 1:01:56 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, but you can't simply throw out games and cherry pick stats. They still mattered and it's a big reason the Sox won't win the division without a historic collapse on NYs part. With that said, I do think that part of his early struggles may have been because of the coaching staff holding him back. I believe this is why they worked out an extension. There's no way Sale would hurt his own value without some assurances. You can't throw out the first 20 games of the season in terms of, like, the team's record. But I think you totally can if you're asking something like "how good can we expect Chris Sale to be the rest of the season." Whatever they were doing with spring training and all that, the starters weren't ready those first few weeks. That hurt them at the time and it's why we're fighting for a wild card instead of the division, but it says nothing about how they should do going forward. I get that, but the reasoning for this experimentation was because this team had fears of Sale breaking down late in the year. The idea was to not exert as much strain early on so that Sale could be stronger in July, August, September, October. We don't actually know if this philosophy is going to work or not. It's not predictive of his future success, but there's history and concerns of Sale not being his vintage self late in the year. We just don't know if basically tanking those early games is going to have a net positive result. There's an interesting SSS stat mentioned about Sale on the baseball reporters with Tony Mazz (which was mentioned on the program as a SSS). That when Sale throws as many pitches as he did against Tampa his next start's ERA is about 5 or 6. I can't really remember. I just blew it off as something not worth thinking about. I wonder now if there is some merit to it. If they didn't push Sale to get that extra inning, would he have been better against NY?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 29, 2019 3:00:07 GMT -5
Chapman is amazing. The only way you win is to sign 3 or 4 of those guys. He's been easily been worth his contract. You're screaming at your front lawn lawn knowing that that there's kids playing in the streets playing basketball at this point. That's all I picture here.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2019 7:21:26 GMT -5
OK, let's rearview this noise and get after another .700+ week!
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Post by incandenza on Jul 29, 2019 10:14:53 GMT -5
You can't throw out the first 20 games of the season in terms of, like, the team's record. But I think you totally can if you're asking something like "how good can we expect Chris Sale to be the rest of the season." Whatever they were doing with spring training and all that, the starters weren't ready those first few weeks. That hurt them at the time and it's why we're fighting for a wild card instead of the division, but it says nothing about how they should do going forward. I get that, but the reasoning for this experimentation was because this team had fears of Sale breaking down late in the year. The idea was to not exert as much strain early on so that Sale could be stronger in July, August, September, October. We don't actually know if this philosophy is going to work or not. It's not predictive of his future success, but there's history and concerns of Sale not being his vintage self late in the year. We just don't know if basically tanking those early games is going to have a net positive result. There's an interesting SSS stat mentioned about Sale on the baseball reporters with Tony Mazz (which was mentioned on the program as a SSS). That when Sale throws as many pitches as he did against Tampa his next start's ERA is about 5 or 6. I can't really remember. I just blew it off as something not worth thinking about. I wonder now if there is some merit to it. If they didn't push Sale to get that extra inning, would he have been better against NY? Well let's see. Here are his top pitch-count starts, followed by his ERA in the following start: 7/23 - 116 pitches - 10.13 4/28 - 111 - 0.00 5/08 - 108 - 2.57 5/14 - 108 - 5.06 5/31 - 108 - 0.00 He hasn't thrown more than 104 in any other game. Basically I don't see any correlation at all. But they've also managed his pitch counts pretty conservatively.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 29, 2019 10:17:27 GMT -5
I get that, but the reasoning for this experimentation was because this team had fears of Sale breaking down late in the year. The idea was to not exert as much strain early on so that Sale could be stronger in July, August, September, October. We don't actually know if this philosophy is going to work or not. It's not predictive of his future success, but there's history and concerns of Sale not being his vintage self late in the year. We just don't know if basically tanking those early games is going to have a net positive result. There's an interesting SSS stat mentioned about Sale on the baseball reporters with Tony Mazz (which was mentioned on the program as a SSS). That when Sale throws as many pitches as he did against Tampa his next start's ERA is about 5 or 6. I can't really remember. I just blew it off as something not worth thinking about. I wonder now if there is some merit to it. If they didn't push Sale to get that extra inning, would he have been better against NY? Well let's see. Here are his top pitch-count starts, followed by his ERA in the following start: 7/23 - 116 pitches - 10.13 4/28 - 111 - 0.00 5/08 - 108 - 2.57 5/14 - 108 - 5.06 5/31 - 108 - 0.00 He hasn't thrown more than 104 in any other game. Basically I don't see any correlation at all. But they've also managed his pitch counts pretty conservatively. Appreciate the homework. I do think they were referring to his career, but that alone to me should suggest it's likely not a thing with him.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2019 10:21:40 GMT -5
Sale isn't breaking down. He's having trouble with home runs, like every other fly ball pitcher in baseball.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 29, 2019 10:29:05 GMT -5
Sale isn't breaking down. He's having trouble with home runs, like every other fly ball pitcher in baseball. The command suggests something minor could be wrong with him. We know he had the toe injury to start the year, maybe he's been battling that all year.
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