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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 23:20:46 GMT -5
there is debate on when is the proper time for a team to call up one it's top prospects for good.
when is the best time: when a player is in class AA, AAA, or out of spring training? (a player getting called up out of class A is very rare)
a few thoughts on this:
1) more common for smaller market teams to call up prospects from AA because they are in dire need or have no better options- but that is skipping an entire level and can hinder development. more rare for larger market teams to do.
2) making the team out of spring training usually puts pressure on a player to perform well- and that can hinder his full potential because of the pressure
3) if a prospect is called up in late april or early may, his service time is delayed and he remains under team control for another year in his prime (the nats and halos did this with harper and trout)
4) AAA is the most common level for a player to be called up from. it is the next level below the major league level. prospects can come from AAA after being there anywhere from a few weeks to a few years
5) teams need to beware of the fact that sometimes the competition level in AAA can be lower in AA. this can be attributed to AAAA players (minor league journeyman) that often occupy AAA that are not very talented or the fact that many truly great players never play a game in AAA because they called up from AA. sometimes with the lack of true talent, competition level can be lower, thus sometimes making the jump from AAA to the bigs more difficult than from AA. but i really dont know.
so when is the best time for a player to be called up from the minors? and when do you expect to see xb, jbj, barnes, RDLR, and webster in Boston?
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Post by bjb406 on Feb 22, 2013 5:14:05 GMT -5
2.) I have to disagree on this point. I think making the team out of spring training just gives the player confidence. Its much better to get a player's feet wet in April than it is to throw them to the wolves for the critical games in august/september and have them break under the pressure of the biggest games of the year (see Hansen, Craig). The red sox do that way too often. If you get some players a little experience early in the year, then come september a.) the young guys are more acclimated to the majors, b.) we have a better idea what to expect from them, and c.) the veterans should still be healthy. If you do it the other way then your veterans are already hurt some september and you end up relying on the young guys, putting more pressure on them when the are already pissing themselves having to play the first major league games during a playoff race.
4.) I also disagree that AA is ever harder than AAA. You may see fewer elite prospects in AAA because they often don't stay there long, but just because there may be more high ceiling players in AA, in general if they are currently good enough for AAA, then they are in AAA. For example Brandon Jacobs is a better prospect than Daniel Nava ever was, but right now Nava is probably the tougher out.
All that being said, I don't expect Bogaerts or Bradley to see the majors until the minor league season is over. But Brentz I think could force his way on pretty quickly with a big April/May if he didn't mess up his leg too badly, and Rubby and/or Webster are probably just waiting for someone in front of them to either get hurt or show everyone that they suck, so probably mid April.
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Post by bluechip on Feb 22, 2013 7:55:45 GMT -5
I think there are times when smaller market teams will wait longer than large markets to call up elite prospects because they are more concerned with the arbitration clock than large markets.
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Post by hammerhead on Feb 22, 2013 8:32:03 GMT -5
I don't really think you can come up with one set time frame that is good for all prospects. Every prospect is different and scouts look for certain indicators (mental capacity as well as physical) that they are ready for prime time. Some prospects get called up and sent back down a whole bunch and still turn into all-star level players. Some prospects don't even need the minor leagues. Most fall somewhere in between and it's up to the scouting department to pick the most ideal time to call up a prospect. Everyone is different and there is no definitive broad based answer that works for every team or every prospect.
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Post by raftsox on Feb 22, 2013 8:47:29 GMT -5
hammerhead is right. There is no "best for everyone" time to call a prospect up. Would Pedroia have been any good in 2007 if not for his 2006 appearances? He was bad for the first month+, should he have been in AAA? No way to know. Youkilis was on the shuttle for years, just like Nava is. It probably makes more sense to evaluate this concept on a prospect-by-prospect basis, within each organization. *for the record: Craig Hansen had control issues that were not caused by "late season call-up stress". Humorously, he was considered "closest to the majors" of his draft class. Damn though, I miss his slider.* I don't think there's a realistic scenario in which Webster or JBJ are called up before September. Bogaerts shouldn't be considered at all; he's most likely in AA all season. RDLR is almost a lock for a second half call-up, either to spell/augment the rotation's normal staff or to get some experienced innings out of the pen (a la Papelbon).
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Post by sibbysisti on Feb 22, 2013 8:57:58 GMT -5
Simple answer: you call a player up when he is ready. Scouts and coaches can best determine when that time arrives.
There may be other considerations such as burning an eligibility year or 40 man roster ramifications, but the bottom line is not to imperil the player's progress by calling him up too soon.
Every case is different.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2013 9:23:53 GMT -5
You can hurt a player by calling them up too late as well as too soon. Maybe not as much, but not giving them the proper opportunity or waiting too long can stall their development. No time frame or restrictions should be put on Xander. If he's progressing this year at the clip he has been the last couple then he should be called up like Machado was for the O's, hopefully as a shortstop. Drew will most likely either have real good trade value if he's playing well or be easy to replace if not.
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Post by raftsox on Feb 22, 2013 13:54:34 GMT -5
You can hurt a player by calling them up too late as well as too soon. Maybe not as much, but not giving them the proper opportunity or waiting too long can stall their development. No time frame or restrictions should be put on Xander. If he's progressing this year at the clip he has been the last couple then he should be called up like Machado was for the O's, hopefully as a shortstop. Drew will most likely either have real good trade value if he's playing well or be easy to replace if not. The last couple of years he started and spent the majority of the season in one league. Some time in the second half he was called up to the next level. Which, would put him in line for a second half call-up to AAA. Machado and the Orioles is a different situation than Bogaerts and the Red Sox. Different histories and different need.
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Post by Kevin Pereira on Feb 22, 2013 15:12:02 GMT -5
Everybody pretty much summed it up, but I'll say it again. It differs from prospect to prospect and team to team; the team needs to cater their needs, but only if a certain prospect is ready. I don't think there's really the perfect time to call a prospect up.
Bryce Brentz and Jeremy Hazelbaker were thrown into a playoff run in Pawtucket, and some can argue they weren't ready, but they made out okay -- and that sets them up for this season.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 22, 2013 16:13:50 GMT -5
I think the outline you created is a good start on evaluating whether or not a player should be called up, but as everyone else has mentioned this outline should be assessed on a per-player basis rather than used as a strict rule.
I also think I disagree with your fifth point of competition only because if I were to bet on a seven game series between any organizations AAA team and their AA team I would bet on the AAA team in every instance. You can definitely argue talent level though and whether it is better for a given prospect to face off against the best talent or the best players. (Think of whether facing a team of Highschool all-stars against a team of semi-pro adults in a basketball game - I'm going with the adults to wipe the floor with them)
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2013 19:19:30 GMT -5
We have no clue as to the Red Sox needs come July/ August
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