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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2019 17:41:20 GMT -5
They used his family's poverty as leverage to buy out his first three years of free agency at FAR below market cost. If you're cool with that, or think it's a "union" issue and that employers taking advantage of their employees is just the invisible hand resolving the free market, whatever. What was the comparable for a player signing an extension as early as he did?
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 24, 2019 18:21:17 GMT -5
A pretty good comp is Andrelton Simmons, who had almost the exact same experience and service time when he signed for 7/$58M before the 2014 season. And Simmons was headed into his age-24 season, while Albies was 22. So Simmons got 7/$58. With those team options, Albies got 9/$45M. Simmons may have been over the Super-Two threshold, which means he'd have had one more arbitration season, so that's worth a few million for sure, but not that kind of difference.
If it was just the 7/$35 I'd have groaned but not said much more - it's those two two years of team options at $5M when he'd be 29 and 30 that push it way over the top.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 24, 2019 18:34:19 GMT -5
A pretty good comp is Andrelton Simmons, who had almost the exact same experience and service time when he signed for 7/$58M before the 2014 season. And Simmons was headed into his age-24 season, while Albies was 22. So Simmons got 7/$58. With those team options, Albies got 9/$45M. Simmons may have been over the Super-Two threshold, which means he'd have had one more arbitration season, so that's worth a few million for sure, but not that kind of difference. If it was just the 7/$35 I'd have groaned but not said much more - it's those two two years of team options at $5M when he'd be 29 and 30 that push it way over the top. Imagine if he's still a 5 win player making $5M a year? Did he even have an agent? I hope no one ever uses him again if so.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 24, 2019 22:49:55 GMT -5
General info:
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 25, 2019 10:21:10 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 25, 2019 14:24:29 GMT -5
A pretty good comp is Andrelton Simmons, who had almost the exact same experience and service time when he signed for 7/$58M before the 2014 season. And Simmons was headed into his age-24 season, while Albies was 22. So Simmons got 7/$58. With those team options, Albies got 9/$45M. Simmons may have been over the Super-Two threshold, which means he'd have had one more arbitration season, so that's worth a few million for sure, but not that kind of difference. If it was just the 7/$35 I'd have groaned but not said much more - it's those two two years of team options at $5M when he'd be 29 and 30 that push it way over the top. Imagine if he's still a 5 win player making $5M a year? Did he even have an agent? I hope no one ever uses him again if so. I'd leave some room that the agent advised him not to sign and he did anyway. That happens often enough to be a real possiblity. It got kinda public with the Bronson Arroyo situation in 2006.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 25, 2019 22:34:42 GMT -5
They used his family's poverty as leverage to buy out his first three years of free agency at FAR below market cost. If you're cool with that, or think it's a "union" issue and that employers taking advantage of their employees is just the invisible hand resolving the free market, whatever. Why do you think that? He got a $350,000 signing bonus and made $575,000 last year. Why do you assume that his employer is “taking advantage of him?” It’s certainly not a contract I would have advised him to sign. Nevertheless, this is not a situation where this player’s choice was to take the contract or his family would struggle in the short term. It’s not an amoral contract, it just does not fit into that box.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 26, 2019 10:38:49 GMT -5
Javier Baez is such an interesting player when talking an extension, because he's so undisciplined at the plate but he does so many other things so well that he's obviously extremely valuable. He's a wonderful defensive player with maybe the quickest tag I've ever seen. He's at 17.1 bWAR over his last four seasons with only a .319 OBP. For comparison's sake, Carl Crawford, who everyone likes to say in hindsight had a bad approach and that a collapse was forseeable, hit .302/.351/.457 in his four years before free agency. The Cubs have basically nobody signed long-term - which is a blessing and a curse, right? Their "2023 lineup" looks like crud but they also have the flexibility to put anyone in there, they have tons of money and no bad contracts on the books. But everyone is pretty flawed in their own way. Baez's approach hasn't improved, Bryant's defense has collapsed. Rizzo's older than those two but I think I actually like his game to be better at 35 than either of those - his strikeout rates are outstanding for someone with his power and patience. Going to be interesting to see who they try to extend, who they bring in, if they try to rebuild on the fly or what. I feel like there's a dangerous path there to being stuck in 85-win hell. Very interested to see how they move forward.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2019 11:21:29 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Nov 27, 2019 11:44:50 GMT -5
Pomeranz signs with the padres hopefully we don’t trade Mata for him at the deadline.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2019 12:32:23 GMT -5
I was reading on MLBtraderumors.com that Dylan Bundy might be dealt very soon. It says nothing is imminent, but that the Orioles are working to trade him.
Maybe even as badly as he's pitched, he might be worth a good look for the Red Sox. He's youngish, healthy, and still has upside given his pedigree. Maybe with a different coach and team, something will click. He doesn't make a ton of money and they need somebody to fill in Porcello's spot. Perhaps Bundy is a guy to look at?
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2019 12:43:04 GMT -5
I was reading on MLBtraderumors.com that Dylan Bundy might be dealt very soon. It says nothing is imminent, but that the Orioles are working to trade him. Maybe even as badly as he's pitched, he might be worth a good look for the Red Sox. He's youngish, healthy, and still has upside given his pedigree. Maybe with a different coach and team, something will click. He doesn't make a ton of money and they need somebody to fill in Porcello's spot. Perhaps Bundy is a guy to look at? I've always thought Bundy would be a beast in the bullpen.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 27, 2019 15:00:51 GMT -5
Pomeranz signs with the padres hopefully we don’t trade Mata for him at the deadline. Though I know it's tongue in cheek I don't think we would look to take on his 4 yrs at 8ish million per year as a bullpen arm given our cap implications. I think Chaim will excel at finding cheaper quality arms to fill the bullpen via free agency or trade. At least that is my hope rather than putting a sizable portion of the payroll into the bullpen in the future given the contracts that our position players deserve and our starting staff has on the books.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 27, 2019 15:07:52 GMT -5
4/34 for an Andrew Miller Starter Kit doesn't suck. Amazing how fast a pitcher can move his value, Pomeranz earned 34 million dollars in 28 innings.
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Post by taftreign on Nov 27, 2019 15:13:38 GMT -5
I was reading on MLBtraderumors.com that Dylan Bundy might be dealt very soon. It says nothing is imminent, but that the Orioles are working to trade him. Maybe even as badly as he's pitched, he might be worth a good look for the Red Sox. He's youngish, healthy, and still has upside given his pedigree. Maybe with a different coach and team, something will click. He doesn't make a ton of money and they need somebody to fill in Porcello's spot. Perhaps Bundy is a guy to look at? I've always thought Bundy would be a beast in the bullpen. Agreed. He has always seemed to be a guy who has two great pitches but not excel at the third. Times through the order: 1st Era 3.95 Fip 4.39 K/9 9.92 2nd Era 4.99 Fip 4.94 K/9 8.62 3rd Era 5.83 Fip 5.34 K/9 7.96 I think he would be a solid conversion candidate. Then again he does have value as a solid innings eater averaging 167 innings per season the past three so it would depend on what adjustments a team could make to get more out of him as a starter
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Post by taftreign on Nov 27, 2019 15:22:05 GMT -5
4/34 for the Andrew Miller Starter Kit doesn't suck. Amazing how fast a pitcher can move his value, Pomeranz earned 34 million dollars in 28 innings. I think there is an above average chance he can earn his salary or surpass it so this is probably a good deal for both sides. Entering his age 31 season he has always had decent stuff though always seemed to fall short of his potential. Currently I believe his contract places him about 20th on the AAV salary scale so not what our team needs right now.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2019 21:26:53 GMT -5
What I don't get with Pomeranz is that when he was awful in 2018 and finally moved to the bullpen, his 4 seamer ticked up from 88.6 to 90.9. Then in 2019 he does the same thing and he goes from 91.8 to 95.1 (and was hitting 98 in the playoffs). So I'm not sure that he's now a pitcher who is going to remain as dominant as he was in 28 innings last season. I'd be quite concerned with a 4 year deal for him. There's a huge difference for him throwing 90.9 and 95.1. He's so much more dominant with those extra mph to play off his curveball. And when he's 34-35, he may be just as bad as he was in 2018. Hell he could be next season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 28, 2019 7:07:48 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Greg Bird cleared waivers and is now a free agent.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 2, 2019 16:08:15 GMT -5
The Reds signed Mike Moustakas to a 4 year $64 million deal - to play 2b.
Surely they must be counting on a strike during years 3 and 4. Hard to imagine Moustakas lasting as a viable 2b over 4 years and they have Suarez and Votto at the corners for the foreseeable future.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Dec 3, 2019 6:49:55 GMT -5
I wonder if the Hernandez non-tender bodes well for a resigning of Brock Holt. I’d like to see him back because he is so easy to root for and I think he’s a great guy to have on a roster because of his positional flexibility. I hope they can make the money work to sign him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 3, 2019 16:29:33 GMT -5
Could just as easily mean they're comfortable with Lin, Chatham, and replacement-level players. I don't think it means anything re: Holt.
Ian made the point this morning that maybe the shoulder doesn't look good? I don't have better theories.
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Post by texs31 on Dec 3, 2019 16:38:26 GMT -5
Passan said that there is talk Sox want him back but maybe on a split contract (which could mean the shoulder-theory is valid)
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 3, 2019 17:52:05 GMT -5
Hernandez had 3 walks last season. He's never going to be more than a bench guy with that approach.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 3, 2019 18:33:30 GMT -5
Hernandez had 3 walks last season. He's never going to be more than a bench guy with that approach. I found myself thinking the same thing. He's a decent hitter when he makes solid contact, but pitchers quickly realized he would be vulnerable because of the willingness to extend himself on stuff he should be laying off of. He was rolling over quite a few pitches, and hitting weak fly balls to the opposite field on outside stuff. Not good.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 3, 2019 21:12:47 GMT -5
Hernandez had 3 walks last season. He's never going to be more than a bench guy with that approach. I found myself thinking the same thing. He's a decent hitter when he makes solid contact, but pitchers quickly realized he would be vulnerable because of the willingness to extend himself on stuff he should be laying off of. He was rolling over quite a few pitches, and hitting weak fly balls to the opposite field on outside stuff. Not good. Was thinking similarly this past season. Neither Marco nor Lin looked fully healthy, and the #’s agree. Marco is not as good a fielder or as versatile as either Holt or Lin. A healthy Holt is the best hitter of the three. Count me in for offering Brockstar a 2-3 year deal (maybe 2 + 1 @ 4M per) would benefit both him and the team, and re-signing Marco to a two way deal to see if he can fully recover. Either bring Lin up as a versatile bench-mate with Holt, or trade him. A bench with LHB Holt on it fits right in with Pedey, Chavis, Dalbec, Chatham and more than half the IF and OF available out there.
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