SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
A Mookie Betts Trade Return
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,794
|
Post by nomar on Jan 24, 2020 10:56:48 GMT -5
I want Patiño in the trade at a minimum. I’m not a big Urias guy but I guess he’d make logical sense too. He and Myers could fill our 1B and 2B holes this year.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 10:59:38 GMT -5
Baez may well be one of the elite closers in a couple years. Rest don't thrill me in a Betts deal, Quantril probably the best. Agree with poster above and some others who have resigned themselves to probable reality tho.. Betts is hitting FA. Us wanting him to stay won't help. Whether or not best offer is now, or in July is the tricky part pretty much as sad as it is. The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 24, 2020 11:01:19 GMT -5
Maybe the Red Sox can ask the Padres to throw-in Margot? Why? He's just not that good. He was a former top prospect here but Dombrowski was correct to trade him. You can't make this trade and not receive a top 5 prospect back. Especially if you're taking Myers. I don't care if Betts is leaving, the Sox are a contender to make the playoffs and part of that line of thinking is doing whatever you can to keep top talent. Mookie is perhaps the 2nd best player in the game. Of course he deserves a much better package than what the Diamondbacks got for Goldschmidt. Mainly because it completely wipes the Espinosa trade. The reason why I said, "throw-in" is because he's not that good, but maybe you catch lightning in a bottle with him going into his age 25 season. He's a suitable replacement for JBJ and unloading his money.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 11:02:29 GMT -5
Why? He's just not that good. He was a former top prospect here but Dombrowski was correct to trade him. You can't make this trade and not receive a top 5 prospect back. Especially if you're taking Myers. I don't care if Betts is leaving, the Sox are a contender to make the playoffs and part of that line of thinking is doing whatever you can to keep top talent. Mookie is perhaps the 2nd best player in the game. Of course he deserves a much better package than what the Diamondbacks got for Goldschmidt. Mainly because it completely wipes the Espinosa trade. The reason why I said, "throw-in" is because he's not that good, but maybe you catch lightning in a bottle with him going into his age 25 season. He's a suitable replacement for JBJ and unloading his money. I'd also much rather have Margot as a 4th OF than JDM. Let him give Benintendi and JBJ a rest vs. tough LHP.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 24, 2020 11:03:29 GMT -5
Baez may well be one of the elite closers in a couple years. Rest don't thrill me in a Betts deal, Quantril probably the best. Agree with poster above and some others who have resigned themselves to probable reality tho.. Betts is hitting FA. Us wanting him to stay won't help. Whether or not best offer is now, or in July is the tricky part pretty much as sad as it is. The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that. Because I think most people have given up on the Sox being very good in 2020 (maybe 82-85 wins). If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what he contributes to the 2020 team. So, it's a matter of do you value the 1st round pick more than whatever return they get.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 11:06:12 GMT -5
The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that. Because I think most people have given up on the Sox being very good in 2020 (maybe 82-85 wins). If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what he contributes to the 2020 team. So, it's a matter of do you value the 1st round pick more than whatever return they get. I think that's incredibly dumb. They still have a great lineup and a lot of great pitchers who could bounce back from very disappointing seasons. Their depth at the end of the roster is far better than last season. And to add to that, if the fans didn't think they can compete, then they should be screaming for a total rebuild by trading away everyone with any value to build around Xander and Devers. The Red Sox don't believe they have no chance so they're not doing that. They could get a haul for someone like Workman who has one year left and there has not been a single rumor about him.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2020 11:26:27 GMT -5
Maybe the Red Sox can ask the Padres to throw-in Margot? I believe Margot was mentioned as a possibility in a potential deal. He'd be a JBJ replacement, but certainly not a Mookie replacement. I'd rather the Sox go in a different direction as I think Duran can be at least 90% of what Margot is. My guess is they'd move JBJ to RF if they obtained JBJ. If that's the case they might as well trade JBJ for a corner OF who can hit better. I forgot - Myers would be the RF in this scenario.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2020 11:27:46 GMT -5
I want Patiño in the trade at a minimum. I’m not a big Urias guy but I guess he’d make logical sense too. He and Myers could fill our 1B and 2B holes this year. Not really. You'd have to ask the Brewers. They acquired Urias in a deal for Grisham.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 24, 2020 11:29:25 GMT -5
Because I think most people have given up on the Sox being very good in 2020 (maybe 82-85 wins). If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what he contributes to the 2020 team. So, it's a matter of do you value the 1st round pick more than whatever return they get. I think that's incredibly dumb. They still have a great lineup and a lot of great pitchers who could bounce back from very disappointing seasons. Their depth at the end of the roster is far better than last season. And to add to that, if the fans didn't think they can compete, then they should be screaming for a total rebuild by trading away everyone with any value to build around Xander and Devers. The Red Sox don't believe they have no chance so they're not doing that. They could get a haul for someone like Workman who has one year left and there has not been a single rumor about him. To be fair, I think some fans are screaming for that, but some of these contracts like Eovaldi are incredibly difficult to move. I honestly have no idea what to expect from the 2020 Red Sox. I don't love "downgrading" from Porcello to Perez, but considering Porcello was one of the worst pitchers in MLB last year 2020 Perez can't be much worse than 2019 Porcello. Price will be 34 this year and Sale and Eovaldi have injury concerns. If they don't get a full season out of E-Rod, Price, Sale, and Eovladi and if they don't live up to their potential, it's going to be a long year. They're going into this season with a garbage 5th starter and have no one ready for a promotion to fill in. They also have holes at 1B, 2B, potentially catcher if Vazquez was just hot for only half a season, and CF. A lot of high-end talent with no depth. That's not even discussing their bullpen which they've made no significant changes to or their lack of manager when we're a month away from pitchers and catchers reporting.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 11:33:54 GMT -5
I think that's incredibly dumb. They still have a great lineup and a lot of great pitchers who could bounce back from very disappointing seasons. Their depth at the end of the roster is far better than last season. And to add to that, if the fans didn't think they can compete, then they should be screaming for a total rebuild by trading away everyone with any value to build around Xander and Devers. The Red Sox don't believe they have no chance so they're not doing that. They could get a haul for someone like Workman who has one year left and there has not been a single rumor about him. To be fair, I think some fans are screaming for that, but some of these contracts like Eovaldi are incredibly difficult to move. I honestly have no idea what to expect from the 2020 Red Sox. I don't love "downgrading" from Porcello to Perez, but considering Porcello was one of the worst pitchers in MLB last year 2020 Perez can't be much worse than 2019 Porcello. Price will be 34 this year and Sale and Eovaldi have injury concerns. If they don't get a full season out of E-Rod, Price, Sale, and Eovladi and if they don't live up to their potential, it's going to be a long year. They're going into this season with a garbage 5th starter and have no one ready for a promotion to fill in. They also have holes at 1B, 2B, potentially catcher if Vazquez was just hot for only half a season, and CF. A lot of high-end talent with no depth. That's not even discussing their bullpen which they've made no significant changes to or their lack of manager when we're a month away from pitchers and catchers reporting. So some fans should be running the team instead of dummy Chaim Bloom. Got it.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2020 11:35:32 GMT -5
Baez may well be one of the elite closers in a couple years. Rest don't thrill me in a Betts deal, Quantril probably the best. Agree with poster above and some others who have resigned themselves to probable reality tho.. Betts is hitting FA. Us wanting him to stay won't help. Whether or not best offer is now, or in July is the tricky part pretty much as sad as it is. The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that. If they're trading him, then they're convinced they're not going to be able to re-sign him for what he wants or they think he doesn't want to stay in Boston. It's probably one or the other. You don't trade Mookie Betts to improve your team, and they don't want a draft pick after the 4th round as compensation for him. At this point I'd rather they go with what they have and see where it takes them in July. I still think contending teams will give the Sox a reasonable haul for Betts in June or July. Frankly I wouldn't expect the Sox to be much better than an 87 - 89 win team next season. They have done nothing to really improve themselves since they acquired Eovaldi in the Beeks deal in 2018. They did little to nothing to improve themselves in 2019 and have worked around the margins in 2019. Other competing teams have improved themselves. I think the Sox are a edge of wild card competition kind of team. They have a shot at the Wild Card, but they'll have a lot of competition for those spots. It's very possible Betts is gone by July if not sooner.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 24, 2020 11:44:16 GMT -5
To be fair, I think some fans are screaming for that, but some of these contracts like Eovaldi are incredibly difficult to move. I honestly have no idea what to expect from the 2020 Red Sox. I don't love "downgrading" from Porcello to Perez, but considering Porcello was one of the worst pitchers in MLB last year 2020 Perez can't be much worse than 2019 Porcello. Price will be 34 this year and Sale and Eovaldi have injury concerns. If they don't get a full season out of E-Rod, Price, Sale, and Eovladi and if they don't live up to their potential, it's going to be a long year. They're going into this season with a garbage 5th starter and have no one ready for a promotion to fill in. They also have holes at 1B, 2B, potentially catcher if Vazquez was just hot for only half a season, and CF. A lot of high-end talent with no depth. That's not even discussing their bullpen which they've made no significant changes to or their lack of manager when we're a month away from pitchers and catchers reporting. So some fans should be running the team instead of dummy Chaim Bloom. Got it. You don't think Chaim Bloom isn't trying to reduce salary? That's how they ended up with Perez over Porcello. It's pretty well-established that the Red Sox are trying to cut payroll, but again, no one wants Eovaldi or David Price at their current price tag. I also wouldn't put it past ownership to tell Bloom to reduce salary below the tax threshold, but try to be as competitive as possible, so I wouldn't blame Bloom when that plan doesn't workout, I'd blame Henry and company. It's like Robert Kraft telling Bill Belichick to win, but that he's not allowed to sign or re-sign any veterans like McCourty or Brady. Bloom hasn't really done anything yet. It's not his fault, but we really don't know what Bloom's plan or strategy for this team is yet.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 24, 2020 11:54:00 GMT -5
Just a thought. What if the Padres Pirates and Red Sox are working on a 3 team deal.
Sox get: Marte Quantrill Grisham and a few other prospects.
Pirates get JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million AAV and a fringe top 10 prospect
Padres get: Mookie
Probably very far fetched but just a couple thoughts. It's more likely than not that the Sox and Padres were using each other as leverage for the Dodgers and Pirates respectively.
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jan 24, 2020 11:57:40 GMT -5
Just a thought. What if the Padres Pirates and Red Sox are working on a 3 team deal. Sox get: Marte Quantrill Grisham and a few other prospects. Pirates get JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million AAV and a fringe top 10 prospect Padres get: Mookie Probably very far fetched but just a couple thoughts. It's more likely than not that the Sox and Padres were using each other as leverage for the Dodgers and Pirates respectively. Why would Pittsburgh do this?
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 24, 2020 12:02:00 GMT -5
Just a thought. What if the Padres Pirates and Red Sox are working on a 3 team deal. Sox get: Marte Quantrill Grisham and a few other prospects. Pirates get JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million AAV and a fringe top 10 prospect Padres get: Mookie Probably very far fetched but just a couple thoughts. It's more likely than not that the Sox and Padres were using each other as leverage for the Dodgers and Pirates respectively. Why would Pittsburgh do this? Get a replacement for Marte in JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million is probably not a bad player. Then again why would Pittsburgh do half of the stuff that they have done over the last few decades?
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 12:07:53 GMT -5
The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that. If they're trading him, then they're convinced they're not going to be able to re-sign him for what he wants or they think he doesn't want to stay in Boston. It's probably one or the other. You don't trade Mookie Betts to improve your team, and they don't want a draft pick after the 4th round as compensation for him. At this point I'd rather they go with what they have and see where it takes them in July. I still think contending teams will give the Sox a reasonable haul for Betts in June or July. Frankly I wouldn't expect the Sox to be much better than an 87 - 89 win team next season. They have done nothing to really improve themselves since they acquired Eovaldi in the Beeks deal in 2018. They did little to nothing to improve themselves in 2019 and have worked around the margins in 2019. Other competing teams have improved themselves. I think the Sox are a edge of wild card competition kind of team. They have a shot at the Wild Card, but they'll have a lot of competition for those spots. It's very possible Betts is gone by July if not sooner. Much of the 2018 team is still on the roster and the improvement can definitely come from there after a short offseason and not being prepared whatsoever for the beginning of 2019. We've seen time and time again that pitchers are not the same a year after they've been abused in the playoffs. Pedro, Schilling, even Craig Breslow.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,794
|
Post by nomar on Jan 24, 2020 12:09:35 GMT -5
I want Patiño in the trade at a minimum. I’m not a big Urias guy but I guess he’d make logical sense too. He and Myers could fill our 1B and 2B holes this year. Not really. You'd have to ask the Brewers. They acquired Urias in a deal for Grisham. Lol hey problem solved. Thank you lack of awareness
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 12:10:26 GMT -5
So some fans should be running the team instead of dummy Chaim Bloom. Got it. You don't think Chaim Bloom isn't trying to reduce salary? That's how they ended up with Perez over Porcello. It's pretty well-established that the Red Sox are trying to cut payroll, but again, no one wants Eovaldi or David Price at their current price tag. I also wouldn't put it past ownership to tell Bloom to reduce salary below the tax threshold, but try to be as competitive as possible, so I wouldn't blame Bloom when that plan doesn't workout, I'd blame Henry and company. It's like Robert Kraft telling Bill Belichick to win, but that he's not allowed to sign or re-sign any veterans like McCourty or Brady. Bloom hasn't really done anything yet. It's not his fault, but we really don't know what Bloom's plan or strategy for this team is yet. Actions speak a lot louder than words. When that changes, I'll make my opinions known. They have not dumped players just to reduce salary which they easily could have done by now. It seems to me that competing is a goal in 2020 based on what they have not done so far. That they are not even shopping Workman with one year of control left is proof of it. Same goes for Barnes.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 12:11:59 GMT -5
Why would Pittsburgh do this? Get a replacement for Marte in JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million is probably not a bad player. Then again why would Pittsburgh do half of the stuff that they have done over the last few decades? They don't need a 1 year replacement for Marte who isn't as good as Marte. Also, Wil Myers at $10 million is paying $20 million per WAR last season.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 24, 2020 12:13:58 GMT -5
If they're trading him, then they're convinced they're not going to be able to re-sign him for what he wants or they think he doesn't want to stay in Boston. It's probably one or the other. You don't trade Mookie Betts to improve your team, and they don't want a draft pick after the 4th round as compensation for him. At this point I'd rather they go with what they have and see where it takes them in July. I still think contending teams will give the Sox a reasonable haul for Betts in June or July. Frankly I wouldn't expect the Sox to be much better than an 87 - 89 win team next season. They have done nothing to really improve themselves since they acquired Eovaldi in the Beeks deal in 2018. They did little to nothing to improve themselves in 2019 and have worked around the margins in 2019. Other competing teams have improved themselves. I think the Sox are a edge of wild card competition kind of team. They have a shot at the Wild Card, but they'll have a lot of competition for those spots. It's very possible Betts is gone by July if not sooner. Much of the 2018 team is still on the roster and the improvement can definitely come from there after a short offseason and not being prepared whatsoever for the beginning of 2019. We've seen time and time again that pitchers are not the same a year after they've been abused in the playoffs. Pedro, Schilling, even Craig Breslow. You're banking a lot on rebound performances as well as health. Not to mention, again, John Henry wants to get under the 2020 luxury tax which means they have to peel talent away from this flawed team, not add to it.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 24, 2020 12:15:39 GMT -5
Much of the 2018 team is still on the roster and the improvement can definitely come from there after a short offseason and not being prepared whatsoever for the beginning of 2019. We've seen time and time again that pitchers are not the same a year after they've been abused in the playoffs. Pedro, Schilling, even Craig Breslow. You're banking a lot on rebound performances as well as health. Not to mention, again, John Henry wants to get under the 2020 luxury tax which means they have to peel talent away from this flawed team, not add to it. When that happens, we can talk again. For now, competing seems to be goal #1 with reducing salary as the #2 goal. The only thing I'm banking on is not having a repeat performance of a total dumpster fire of team pitching.
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jan 24, 2020 12:18:36 GMT -5
Why would Pittsburgh do this? Get a replacement for Marte in JBJ and Wil Myers at 10 million is probably not a bad player. Then again why would Pittsburgh do half of the stuff that they have done over the last few decades? I mean, Pittsburgh seems to be getting ready to commit to rebuilding. I don't see how an expiring JBJ contract and a subsidized Myers helps them. Also Pittsburgh gutted it's front office. Also Marte is a 3war player with atleast 2 years of affordable control. They can do a lot better than a Myers and JBJ.
|
|
|
Post by huskies15 on Jan 24, 2020 12:37:30 GMT -5
Heyman tweeted out that Marte trade rumors are heating up. He cited the Mets and Padres, which would change the outlook of a Mookie market
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 24, 2020 12:50:13 GMT -5
The best offer could also be Mookie remaining with the team and contributing to the 2020 Red Sox. I'm not sure why people continually ignore that. Because I think most people have given up on the Sox being very good in 2020 (maybe 82-85 wins). If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what he contributes to the 2020 team. So, it's a matter of do you value the 1st round pick more than whatever return they get. The Red Sox won 84 games last season despite not really trying the last 6 weeks of the season - or the first 4 weeks of the season, essentially - and that was with a disastrous performance by the rotation which is not likely to be repeated. It's also essentially the same group that won 108 games in 2018. We don't know how the season will go, of course, but I can't fathom thinking that a team with Sale, Price, Rodriguez, Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, etc., should just be written off. So some fans should be running the team instead of dummy Chaim Bloom. Got it. You don't think Chaim Bloom isn't trying to reduce salary? That's how they ended up with Perez over Porcello. Steamer projects Perez for a 4.59 ERA and Porcello for a 4.62 ERA. It's probable that Bloom thinks Perez is just better than Porcello, and he costs $3.5 million less. If "salary reduction" means replacing one player with another who is cheaper and also better, there's not a GM in the game who wouldn't do it. And beyond this example, there isn't anywhere on the roster that Bloom has given up talent for the sake of salary reduction.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2020 13:15:11 GMT -5
Because I think most people have given up on the Sox being very good in 2020 (maybe 82-85 wins). If that's the case, it doesn't really matter what he contributes to the 2020 team. So, it's a matter of do you value the 1st round pick more than whatever return they get. The Red Sox won 84 games last season despite not really trying the last 6 weeks of the season - or the first 4 weeks of the season, essentially - and that was with a disastrous performance by the rotation which is not likely to be repeated. It's also essentially the same group that won 108 games in 2018. We don't know how the season will go, of course, but I can't fathom thinking that a team with Sale, Price, Rodriguez, Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, etc., should just be written off. You don't think Chaim Bloom isn't trying to reduce salary? That's how they ended up with Perez over Porcello. Steamer projects Perez for a 4.59 ERA and Porcello for a 4.62 ERA. It's probable that Bloom thinks Perez is just better than Porcello, and he costs $3.5 million less. If "salary reduction" means replacing one player with another who is cheaper and also better, there's not a GM in the game who wouldn't do it. And beyond this example, there isn't anywhere on the roster that Bloom has given up talent for the sake of salary reduction. They were very trying, and I doubt that the players themselves were tanking. They were certainly trying when they lost 8 games in a row in the two series that were make or break for the season. Tampa and New York were simply a good deal better than them last season. 2018 is gone. It's over. Everything that could go right went right that year. Everything that could go wrong last year pretty much went wrong except for the maturation of Devers and Vazquez who actually plugged two holes on the 2018 team. I'm picking the Sox to win about 87 - 89 games because they're not as bad as last year and not as good as 2018, but I don't have them more than a handful of games better than last year because 1) they haven't improved their team at all, 2) other teams have, and 3) Alex Cora isn't around anymore and it's hard to be confident that the Sox will be as cohesive this season without him. I mean it's one thing to bank on Sale, Price, and Eovaldi being healthy, but if they don't improve the bullpen or improve the rotation it's hard to feel like they've hedged their bets enough. In other words, I think their pitching will be a little better, but I don't think it'll be anywhere near the level it was in 2018. Their offense is good, but it does have holes at 1b, 2b, and CF at the moment. There are definitely outs at the bottom third of the lineup. So the offense will be good but not good enough to support their pitching to be a 95 win type of team.
|
|
|