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Passan: Baseball is Burning
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 16, 2020 12:12:43 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2020 12:21:52 GMT -5
Oh great response. Make it so that the Astros players never have to fear being pitched inside, ever. That's probably almost as much of an advantage as stealing signs.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 16, 2020 12:38:17 GMT -5
You know, the more we go down this rabbit hole, the Red Sox had a pretty good team and got swept out by the Astros. If Cody Bellinger feels they lost out on a ring and Aaron Judge lost an MVP, it's possible the Sox could have advanced and maybe John Farrell isn't fired.
But, by all means, keep protecting the players and team Manfred.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 16, 2020 12:48:56 GMT -5
Oh great response. Make it so that the Astros players never have to fear being pitched inside, ever. That's probably almost as much of an advantage as stealing signs. He has to do this, because some stupid ballplayers cant keep quiet. If he doesn't do something like this, he will be roasted also. In the end, the Umpires will be the ones determining intent on an inside pitch. Bellinger, Boone et al.....all these guys are proving that the modern day athlete will play the victim card just as easily as your everday Joe. Putting aside they are part of the same union and should not be undermining their solidarity publicly, there was a time when something like this would be handled by the players themselves, under the radar. We can debate whether that was correct also, but publicly calling for the Astros heads and complaining that somebody stole something from you is particularly incendiary and is just plain foolish. It brings more attention to something that isn't good for the game and it keeps it in the headlines for writers like Passan. ADD: I am not a Manfred fan...but i think he did a decent job handling the cheating story. |
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 16, 2020 13:21:37 GMT -5
We need to bring back selig
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Post by trajanacc on Feb 16, 2020 13:44:57 GMT -5
You know, the more we go down this rabbit hole, the Red Sox had a pretty good team and got swept out by the Astros. If Cody Bellinger feels they lost out on a ring and Aaron Judge lost an MVP, it's possible the Sox could have advanced and maybe John Farrell isn't fired. But, by all means, keep protecting the players and team Manfred. This should be obvious but the Astros didn’t “cost the Dodgers a ring” as Bellinger stated. If the Dodgers got a do-over and the Astros had been disqualified prior to the 2017 playoffs, the Dodgers still would have had to play the AL representative. There’s a ~50% chance the outcome would have been the same. It’s not like the MVP controversies where you could automatically award it to the 2nd place finisher. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 16, 2020 13:55:37 GMT -5
You know, the more we go down this rabbit hole, the Red Sox had a pretty good team and got swept out by the Astros. If Cody Bellinger feels they lost out on a ring and Aaron Judge lost an MVP, it's possible the Sox could have advanced and maybe John Farrell isn't fired. But, by all means, keep protecting the players and team Manfred. This should be obvious but the Astros didn’t “cost the Dodgers a ring” as Bellinger stated. If the Dodgers got a do-over and the Astros had been disqualified prior to the 2017 playoffs, the Dodgers still would have had to play the AL representative. There’s a ~50% chance the outcome would have been the same. It’s not like the MVP controversies where you could automatically award it to the 2nd place finisher. I don’t think you award it to the Dodgers, but you can strip the Astros and leave it vacant. They should also be fined to the point that teams and players realize they won’t be able to cheat, benefit, then apologize and get a slap on the wrist. I don’t know if Altuve got a bonus for the 2017 MVP, but if he did, he should be fined at least that amount. The players should be fined their WS shares. Otherwise, it was worth it. You get a title, a ring, cash, parades, and what is the cost? A wave of bad PR that you can likely ride out. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 16, 2020 13:55:46 GMT -5
You know, the more we go down this rabbit hole, the Red Sox had a pretty good team and got swept out by the Astros. If Cody Bellinger feels they lost out on a ring and Aaron Judge lost an MVP, it's possible the Sox could have advanced and maybe John Farrell isn't fired. But, by all means, keep protecting the players and team Manfred. This should be obvious but the Astros didn’t “cost the Dodgers a ring” as Bellinger stated. If the Dodgers got a do-over and the Astros had been disqualified prior to the 2017 playoffs, the Dodgers still would have had to play the AL representative. There’s a ~50% chance the outcome would have been the same. It’s not like the MVP controversies where you could automatically award it to the 2nd place finisher. I agree. I get his frustration, but he's probably not playing the Dodgers then and the Yankees were very good. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Feb 16, 2020 14:20:04 GMT -5
Commissioners need set terms. Manfred has way too much job security
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Feb 16, 2020 14:46:11 GMT -5
Manfred is an absolute joke and will keep sinking baseball's quickly sinking ship if nothing is done to stop him.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2020 14:55:30 GMT -5
And all of this leads to the obvious logical conclusion that Manfred will be harsher on the Red Sox than he should be. He can't go back and up the punishment for the Astros now.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2020 14:57:51 GMT -5
Oh great response. Make it so that the Astros players never have to fear being pitched inside, ever. That's probably almost as much of an advantage as stealing signs. He has to do this, because some stupid ballplayers cant keep quiet. If he doesn't do something like this, he will be roasted also. In the end, the Umpires will be the ones determining intent on an inside pitch. Bellinger, Boone et al.....all these guys are proving that the modern day athlete will play the victim card just as easily as your everday Joe. Putting aside they are part of the same union and should not be undermining their solidarity publicly, there was a time when something like this would be handled by the players themselves, under the radar. We can debate whether that was correct also, but publicly calling for the Astros heads and complaining that somebody stole something from you is particularly incendiary and is just plain foolish. It brings more attention to something that isn't good for the game and it keeps it in the headlines for writers like Passan. ADD: I am not a Manfred fan...but i think he did a decent job handling the cheating story. If he did a decent job, the baseball players who are furious with the Astros would be satisfied, not angry. Bellinger wouldn't have said a word if players were suspended for a year or more and Crane was forced to sell the team. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 16, 2020 15:12:59 GMT -5
And all of this leads to the obvious logical conclusion that Manfred will be harsher on the Red Sox than he should be. He can't go back and up the punishment for the Astros now. Sure they can. There's always, "new information has been made available". They might have tried to sweep this, but the uproar becoming louder might introduce guilt on buzzers which, "changes the complexion of the investigation and what we said punishments would be". I fully believe they were, but baseball is really trying to minimize what they did and players continue to be pissed. |
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2020 15:40:52 GMT -5
And all of this leads to the obvious logical conclusion that Manfred will be harsher on the Red Sox than he should be. He can't go back and up the punishment for the Astros now. Sure they can. There's always, "new information has been made available". They might have tried to sweep this, but the uproar becoming louder might introduce guilt on buzzers which, "changes the complexion of the investigation and what we said punishments would be". I fully believe they were, but baseball is really trying to minimize what they did and players continue to be pissed. That makes them look even more incompetent than they look now. They are in CYA mode now, they're not after true justice. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 16, 2020 16:15:21 GMT -5
He has to do this, because some stupid ballplayers cant keep quiet. If he doesn't do something like this, he will be roasted also. In the end, the Umpires will be the ones determining intent on an inside pitch. Bellinger, Boone et al.....all these guys are proving that the modern day athlete will play the victim card just as easily as your everday Joe. Putting aside they are part of the same union and should not be undermining their solidarity publicly, there was a time when something like this would be handled by the players themselves, under the radar. We can debate whether that was correct also, but publicly calling for the Astros heads and complaining that somebody stole something from you is particularly incendiary and is just plain foolish. It brings more attention to something that isn't good for the game and it keeps it in the headlines for writers like Passan. ADD: I am not a Manfred fan...but i think he did a decent job handling the cheating story. If he did a decent job, the baseball players who are furious with the Astros would be satisfied, not angry. Bellinger wouldn't have said a word if players were suspended for a year or more and Crane was forced to sell the team. i can respect that..but that sounds very authoritarian. He explained why he didn't and the MLBPA would have made that process incredibly difficult...rightly so for them. As far as selling the team, that wasn't in the calculus, nor should it be. I mean, players were cheating here, it happens all the time in sports, even if it came from the FO / leadership. They didn't have to do it. |
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 16, 2020 16:38:21 GMT -5
If he did a decent job, the baseball players who are furious with the Astros would be satisfied, not angry. Bellinger wouldn't have said a word if players were suspended for a year or more and Crane was forced to sell the team. He's doing a great job, at his actual job. He's not accountable to Cody Bellinger, he's accountable to Jim Crane and John Henry, and as far as those guys are concerned he's killing it. Got guys like you talking about the Red Sox can't afford Mookie Betts. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 16, 2020 17:09:26 GMT -5
My biggest issue with Manfred is that he didn't do enough to get out in front of this, do some damage control, and manage the conversation. The way this has been portrayed, you'd think nobody had ever stolen a sign before and I bet a lot of casual fans don't know the difference. The Astros did something that is legal, but did it in an illegal way. That phrase should have been beaten into our heads. I haven't listened to a ton about this, but I haven't heard him say anything close to this. With some half decent PR, this could have been something other than the "sign stealing scandal". He also should have managed the Houston front office better. That group hasn't said anything I've heard that I liked. They should have been given a script and told not to comment any further or be subject to further penalties. Doing something legal illegally is sort of the nature of a lot of crimes. Withdrawing money from a bank? Legal. Withdrawing other peoples’ money with a gun? Not legal. I’m not sure the distinction mitigates what they did in the least. And I think many believe far from making it worse than it was, they likely covered up or didn’t pursue it to the end. The buzzer thing is still suspicious, and when you have a situation in which conspiracy theories don’t sound crazy, you are in trouble. |
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2020 17:10:21 GMT -5
If he did a decent job, the baseball players who are furious with the Astros would be satisfied, not angry. Bellinger wouldn't have said a word if players were suspended for a year or more and Crane was forced to sell the team. He's doing a great job, at his actual job. He's not accountable to Cody Bellinger, he's accountable to Jim Crane and John Henry, and as far as those guys are concerned he's killing it. Got guys like you talking about the Red Sox can't afford Mookie Betts. Don't lump me in with those people. I've advocated pushing the payroll to $300M to sell off subsidized assets for maximum prospect returns like the Dodgers did. But I also see that baseball is getting an absurdly high percentage of its production from league minimum players. Red Sox need prospects regardless of whether Mookie is here or not. And I also want the Red Sox to re-sign Mookie, but also recognize the agony of a way too long contract if something bad happens. I spent the last 6 months arguing with all the people who wanted to trade Mookie! I do not care about the payroll amount, but I don't want the team to get old. And it will get old unless they rebuild in some way because there was very little on the way from this system. And I'm sorry but this cheating scandal is a huge cloud hanging over MLB's head. I'm not sure if they really are serious about stopping it in the future because of zero punishment for players. |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 16, 2020 21:57:47 GMT -5
Manfred is fast becoming the worst commissioner of the 4 major sports. He is making Goodell appear to be almost competent relative to how poorly he has handled the sign stealing situation in MLB.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Feb 16, 2020 22:05:07 GMT -5
Manfred is fast becoming the worst commissioner of the 4 major sports. He is making Goodell appear to be almost competent relative to how poorly he has handled the sign stealing situation in MLB. Accurate on substance but it comes down to the revenue. Manfred is not going anywhere unless the league suffers financially from this. So far no sponsors have pulled out of the game over this scandal. If anything expect viewing numbers to rise when people tune in to see if their local team throws at Bregmans ribs. |
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Post by prangerx on Feb 19, 2020 22:37:22 GMT -5
I don't see another team doing this type of sign stealing happening. Who is going to want to lose first and second round pick? Not to mention getting fired if your a GM or manager. Not to mention all the scrutiny the Astros are getting. I don't buy that the players association wouldn't have fought sanctions. Also lets not forget the Astros Front Office were the real masterminds, despite MLB's report.
Dan Wetzel just wrote a column about how Astros should be stripped of the title. Thats just ridiculous to me. There is no precedent for this. Astros were a good team that should have won a lot of games. I don think they won the World Series. just because of their scheme.
Baseball was right to come down on them and digital sign stealing in general but stripping titles and playing the victim card is overkill for me.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 20, 2020 0:05:47 GMT -5
And I'm sorry but this cheating scandal is a huge cloud hanging over MLB's head. I'm not sure if they really are serious about stopping it in the future because of zero punishment for players. I feel like this is on us as sports fans a little bit as well. We push our teams to win whatever the cost. The other day I saw Sergio Ramos on TV and I remember when that guy did a judo to remove Salah from that UCL finals that Real won and hey it's like nobody remembers. Whatever the cost. Steal signals? Do it! Shoot junk until your balls shrink and fall? Why not! Allow for an owner to inject shady money into a team in what is a clear money laudering scheme for child trafficking or sh*t? Don't mind if I do! They know the MLB won't strip them of the title. That never happens. They're going to play in front a lot of people, most Astros fans won't stop supporting and they will keep on keeping on. It's an impossible situation, it mixes a bad culture with sheer inanity from the people in power. |
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Post by bluechip on Feb 20, 2020 4:13:48 GMT -5
Manfred is fast becoming the worst commissioner of the 4 major sports. He is making Goodell appear to be almost competent relative to how poorly he has handled the sign stealing situation in MLB. As much as the players (and Patriots’ fans) hate Goodell he is a very successful commissioner. Look at how much money that league makes. MLB is also extremely profitable. Nevertheless, this scandal is dragging out and could (though it hasn’t yet) be a second Black Sox scandal when fans become concerned about the quality of the product on the field is the result of legitimate play. The league initially tried to cover that up as well. Then they hired a commissioner who restored confidence by banning all the players. (that commissioner was also a terrible and a major black mark against the league) |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Feb 21, 2020 19:25:11 GMT -5
Manfred is fast becoming the worst commissioner of the 4 major sports. He is making Goodell appear to be almost competent relative to how poorly he has handled the sign stealing situation in MLB. As much as the players (and Patriots’ fans) hate Goodell he is a very successful commissioner. Look at how much money that league makes. MLB is also extremely profitable. Nevertheless, this scandal is dragging out and could (though it hasn’t yet) be a second Black Sox scandal when fans become concerned about the quality of the product on the field is the result of legitimate play. The league initially tried to cover that up as well. Then they hired a commissioner who restored confidence by banning all the players. (that commissioner was also a terrible and a major black mark against the league) Now it is coming to light that Manfred has known about the Astros’ cheating since 2017 when the A’s reported it to him. Let’s see how long that Manfred lasts as he continues TJ shoe pool judgment throughout the cheating scandal. The NFL is being subsidized by Fantasy football and gambling. None of this success is attributable to Goodell who is an empty suit. |
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Post by bluechip on Feb 21, 2020 19:43:32 GMT -5
As much as the players (and Patriots’ fans) hate Goodell he is a very successful commissioner. Look at how much money that league makes. MLB is also extremely profitable. Nevertheless, this scandal is dragging out and could (though it hasn’t yet) be a second Black Sox scandal when fans become concerned about the quality of the product on the field is the result of legitimate play. The league initially tried to cover that up as well. Then they hired a commissioner who restored confidence by banning all the players. (that commissioner was also a terrible and a major black mark against the league) Now it is coming to light that Manfred has known about the Astros’ cheating since 2017 when the A’s reported it to him. Let’s see how long that Manfred lasts as he continues TJ shoe pool judgment throughout the cheating scandal. The NFL is being subsidized by Fantasy football and gambling. None of this success is attributable to Goodell who is an empty suit. Incorrect: www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article225279155.html |
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