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Post by Addam603 on Feb 17, 2020 21:09:35 GMT -5
Well this sucks.
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Post by joemayosparty on Feb 17, 2020 21:57:59 GMT -5
Living in Milwaukee for the past 10 years I now have a reason to follow the Brewers.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 17, 2020 22:00:41 GMT -5
He means a lot to a ton of families who have went through or are currently going through some awful stuff
That’s in addition to him being a quality player, great teammate, and a caring father. The Brewers are getting an absolute gem and we are worse off as a community without him. Best of luck to him, I hope he hits 15 dingers like I know he can in Milwaukee
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Post by kjkramer on Feb 17, 2020 22:32:17 GMT -5
I hope he gets paid
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 17, 2020 22:38:45 GMT -5
I will miss Brock. Amazing to see he had potentially his two best offensive years the last two years. Guy is so solid. Really sorry he couldn’t be worked into the plan.
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Post by soxaddict on Feb 17, 2020 23:55:01 GMT -5
Damn! Gonna miss Brockstar.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 18, 2020 2:45:38 GMT -5
Have no idea why they couldn't find space for a LH bat who can play all over the diamond, is a guy who really wanted to play here, who happens to also sport an OBP of .360 plus the past couple of years. Yeah, why could they use a guy like that?
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Post by pbsabredsox on Feb 18, 2020 7:55:33 GMT -5
I’ll of course echo what everyone says about Brock as a person and what he meant to Red Sox Nation. Us in the Section 10 community are devastated. Losing Brock and Mookie could crush our collective team OBP for 2020.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 18, 2020 10:18:56 GMT -5
Could have been a nice little trade piece at the deadline if this team's out of contention. Liked the player, but the fans certainly overrated him.
Considering their 2B situation it's suprising they'd let him walk.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 18, 2020 10:41:53 GMT -5
I get not wanting to pay a utility guy. That said, I would have considered starting him (or platooning) at 2B this year, asking him to mentor Downs next year. If there is a youth movement, having a guy like him around has its own value.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 18, 2020 11:12:22 GMT -5
Holt has always worn down in a starting role. It's telling that he couldn't find one.
That said, nice little spot for him in Milwaukee as Hiura's caddy and getting some time at 3B and in the outfield.
Good guy to have on your team and a quality person by all accounts.
As a baseball move, depends what he gets monetarily.
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Post by costpet on Feb 18, 2020 11:34:54 GMT -5
I read he made 6 mil last year. Gotta save that cash wherever you can. With attendance down and all.
If they start off poorly, the empty seats will say volumes. Couldn't happen to a better bunch of guys.
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 18, 2020 16:01:30 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 21, 2020 6:40:47 GMT -5
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Post by benfromma on Feb 21, 2020 8:46:47 GMT -5
Brock Holt was great guy, great in the community and a very good role player. There were many times when he was in our lineup at 2B, SS, 3B, 1B, and LF when he replaced our starters when either provided a spark or at least a solid contribution. But he was a utility player not a starter he was an average fielder and only an ok hitter. I don't think he was the main focus of the other team's scouting report on how to pitch to him. That being said he did have value either in the utility role or at 2B but it does not warrant mention at this magnitude. I have seen as much written about him as Mookie Betts who was really a difference maker. I will and the team will miss Brock but he will be replaced and whether he would have been on the team this year or not would not have had much impact in the standings unless we fixed our other holes. So let us end the Brock talk and begin our discussion on how we build another championship.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 21, 2020 8:51:08 GMT -5
Brock Holt was great guy, great in the community and a very good role player. There were many times when he was in our lineup at 2B, SS, 3B, 1B, and LF when he replaced our starters when either provided a spark or at least a solid contribution. But he was a utility player not a starter he was an average fielder and only an ok hitter. I don't think he was the main focus of the other team's scouting report on how to pitch to him. That being said he did have value either in the utility role or at 2B but it does not warrant mention at this magnitude. I have seen as much written about him as Mookie Betts who was really a difference maker. I will and the team will miss Brock but he will be replaced and whether he would have been on the team this year or not would not have had much impact in the standings unless we fixed our other holes. So let us end the Brock talk and begin our discussion on how we build another championship. Interesting take given there is a 64 page Mookie trade speculation thread, a 65 page Mookie trade discussion thread and this thread is less than 1 page. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 21, 2020 8:55:42 GMT -5
Brock Holt was great guy, great in the community and a very good role player. There were many times when he was in our lineup at 2B, SS, 3B, 1B, and LF when he replaced our starters when either provided a spark or at least a solid contribution. But he was a utility player not a starter he was an average fielder and only an ok hitter. I don't think he was the main focus of the other team's scouting report on how to pitch to him. That being said he did have value either in the utility role or at 2B but it does not warrant mention at this magnitude. I have seen as much written about him as Mookie Betts who was really a difference maker. I will and the team will miss Brock but he will be replaced and whether he would have been on the team this year or not would not have had much impact in the standings unless we fixed our other holes. So let us end the Brock talk and begin our discussion on how we build another championship. I think it swings both ways. There are people who will miss Brock because he was relatable and a guy who made it obvious how much he appreciates being a Red Sox and the fans of Red Sox nation. So if you go by that criteria, yes it's been overstated. But for me, it's not only the intangible of that. It's that they lost a guy who in his last two relatively healthy seasons(meaning no concussion situations which would obviously hamper performance) has an OBP around .370. That .370 figure is tangible, not intangible. His getting on base helps win games. Obviously he's not on the same planet as Mookie Betts. But my complaint is for the extra pocket change it costs to sign Brock Holt, you could have had him rather than committing to Peraza so damn early. Maybe Bloom is right and Peraza is a guy who's going to bounce back to what he was two years ago or even exceed it as he's young with room for growth. I don't trust guys with crappy BB/K ratios, so I think we're at the mercy of the BABIP gods or whatever hoping that enough balls he hits winds up for singles so that his BA is high enough so that his OBP doesn't suck. In other words I hate replacing a .370 OBP for a .290 OBP. If Chavis struggles and Peraza doesn't do anything you have a big hole at 2b until Downs is ready. With Holt, you have less risk or more certainty of league average offense at 2b, and less risk of a black hole at the position. Hopefully one of Chavis (my pick) or Peraza runs with the 2b job this season. Have a feeling whoever it is will be worse at avoiding outs than Holt has been. At least with Chavis there's the promise of big power. Maybe Holt's performance does suffer as he'll be 31 this year (or maybe it's 32?) and Peraza is on the way up and Bloom is right. I'm skeptical of this and would like to be proven wrong in this decision. But the point is that there are reasons to be unhappy about Holt leaving beyond his popularity. |
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Feb 21, 2020 9:58:17 GMT -5
Brock Holt was great guy, great in the community and a very good role player. There were many times when he was in our lineup at 2B, SS, 3B, 1B, and LF when he replaced our starters when either provided a spark or at least a solid contribution. But he was a utility player not a starter he was an average fielder and only an ok hitter. I don't think he was the main focus of the other team's scouting report on how to pitch to him. That being said he did have value either in the utility role or at 2B but it does not warrant mention at this magnitude. I have seen as much written about him as Mookie Betts who was really a difference maker. I will and the team will miss Brock but he will be replaced and whether he would have been on the team this year or not would not have had much impact in the standings unless we fixed our other holes. So let us end the Brock talk and begin our discussion on how we build another championship. I think it swings both ways. There are people who will miss Brock because he was relatable and a guy who made it obvious how much he appreciates being a Red Sox and the fans of Red Sox nation. So if you go by that criteria, yes it's been overstated. But for me, it's not only the intangible of that. It's that they lost a guy who in his last two relatively healthy seasons(meaning no concussion situations which would obviously hamper performance) has an OBP around .370. That .370 figure is tangible, not intangible. His getting on base helps win games. Obviously he's not on the same planet as Mookie Betts. But my complaint is for the extra pocket change it costs to sign Brock Holt, you could have had him rather than committing to Peraza so damn early. Maybe Bloom is right and Peraza is a guy who's going to bounce back to what he was two years ago or even exceed it as he's young with room for growth. I don't trust guys with crappy BB/K ratios, so I think we're at the mercy of the BABIP gods or whatever hoping that enough balls he hits winds up for singles so that his BA is high enough so that his OBP doesn't suck. In other words I hate replacing a .370 OBP for a .290 OBP. If Chavis struggles and Peraza doesn't do anything you have a big hole at 2b until Downs is ready. With Holt, you have less risk or more certainty of league average offense at 2b, and less risk of a black hole at the position. Hopefully one of Chavis (my pick) or Peraza runs with the 2b job this season. Have a feeling whoever it is will be worse at avoiding outs than Holt has been. At least with Chavis there's the promise of big power. Maybe Holt's performance does suffer as he'll be 31 this year (or maybe it's 32?) and Peraza is on the way up and Bloom is right. I'm skeptical of this and would like to be proven wrong in this decision. But the point is that there are reasons to be unhappy about Holt leaving beyond his popularity. It would be interesting to know what Brock's salary requirements were at the point when the Sox signed Peraza. Was Brock looking for significantly more in either money or years and now at this point had to settle for what was left on the table for an offer? |
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Post by kjkramer on Feb 21, 2020 11:24:17 GMT -5
How could we not match that offer? |
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 21, 2020 11:36:43 GMT -5
How could we not match that offer? Devil’s Advocate: Peraza will only be 26 this season and probably has a higher ceiling. |
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Post by soxin8 on Feb 21, 2020 11:56:19 GMT -5
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brisox
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Post by brisox on Feb 21, 2020 12:44:53 GMT -5
This is beautiful and we have lost a great player but a better human. |
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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 21, 2020 16:24:14 GMT -5
How could we not match that offer? We probably could have if he was willing to sign for that when we signed Peraza, which I bet he wasn't |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 22, 2020 12:04:48 GMT -5
FWIW, Steamer has Peraza as a 0.6-win player in 262 at-bats, Chavis as a 1.0-win player in 461 ABs, and Holt as a 0.2-win player in 325 AB.
ZiPS has Peraza at .7-wins in 546 at-bats, Chavis as a 0.7-win player in 470 ABs, and Holt as a 0.8-win player in 347 ABs.
Even if you prefer ZiPS, which has Holt as a marginally better player, it seems clear why a team might want to go with the 26yo with 3 years of control and 25yo with 5 years of control who make $3.5M combined over the free agent 32 yo who makes $4M against the CBT (salary plus next year's buyout, which I believe counts toward this year's cap but then would be credited against next year's figure if the Brewers exercise the option).
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 22, 2020 12:15:00 GMT -5
FWIW, Steamer has Peraza as a 0.6-win player in 262 at-bats, Chavis as a 1.0-win player in 461 ABs, and Holt as a 0.2-win player in 325 AB. ZiPS has Peraza at .7-wins in 546 at-bats, Chavis as a 0.7-win player in 470 ABs, and Holt as a 0.8-win player in 347 ABs. Even if you prefer ZiPS, which has Holt as a marginally better player, it seems clear why a team might want to go with the 26yo with 3 years of control and 25yo with 5 years of control who make $3.5M combined over the free agent 32 yo who makes $4M against the CBT (salary plus next year's buyout, which I believe counts toward this year's cap but then would be credited against next year's figure if the Brewers exercise the option). I get the finances, and it looks like they are looking for savings wherever they can find them, but all things being equal, I prefer the guy with a long record of value — on field and off — over a guy who might pan out as marginally worse than the guy we let go. If the Sox are in transition, culture is going to be enormously important, and Holt was one of the great veterans they had. That is a bummer. But I get it economically. Especially as a huge fan of Chavis, I’d love to see him with a veteran helping him develop at 2B. |
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