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Blue Jays denied permission to play in Canada
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Post by bluechip on Jul 18, 2020 14:25:18 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 18, 2020 17:46:03 GMT -5
Wow. How is that even possible ? MLB must have known this was a possibility and has contingency plan. I think I read they may play in Buffalo this year earlier, but i didn't understand context. If i am the owners, I would have a long memory on this.
Understand we live in weird times, but come on now.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 18, 2020 18:24:00 GMT -5
If I'm a Blue Jay I'm out. Just the logistics of being in America and going back if necessary and seeing family gives me a popsicle headache.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 18, 2020 18:31:12 GMT -5
Wow. How is that even possible ? MLB must have known this was a possibility and has contingency plan. I think I read they may play in Buffalo this year earlier, but i didn't understand context. If i am the owners, I would have a long memory on this. Understand we live in weird times, but come on now. No idea what idea what MLB knew or didn't or should have. But Canada is likely aware of how many states have had upticks in cases and they don't want that potentially getting carried into Canada. I'm not going to fault Canada for being cautious when much of the US has ignored the social distancing and masking requirements. If MLB wants to blackball them for it, then say goodbye to the Canadian market. And all the US owners are supposed to blame the Toronto owners for decisions of the Canadian government?
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Post by cheers on Jul 18, 2020 21:31:40 GMT -5
Just one more reason to declare war on them. They have been a big spiky thorn in our side for far too long. And Bieber.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 18, 2020 23:15:49 GMT -5
full retraction (apologies for commenting on my own comment): fake crowd noise makes MLB completely unwatchable for me. MLB as reality TV is not something I'm in on. Effectively Snooki at shortstop. I hope they dump this before games count. Even worse were what looked like fake cut outs of 'fans' ostensibly placed in the seats behind home plate..OMG! In other news, the Blue Jays have been told they cannot host games in Toronto by the Canadian government. Here's the relevant paragraph from the Times, quoting Immigration Minister, Marco Mendicino (a truly great handle in my estimation) : Dunne, aren't you up there in Buffalo? What do you think?
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Post by cheers on Jul 18, 2020 23:20:32 GMT -5
Maybe they will play in their AA ManchVegas ballpark?
Edit: Yeah, Buffalo makes more sense. I didn't know their AAA affiliate was there.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 18, 2020 23:38:23 GMT -5
Even worse were what looked like fake cut outs of 'fans' ostensibly placed in the seats behind home plate..OMG! In other news, the Blue Jays have been told they cannot host games in Toronto by the Canadian government. Here's the relevant paragraph from the Times, quoting Immigration Minister, Marco Mendicino (a truly great handle in my estimation) : Dunne, aren't you up there in Buffalo? What do you think? Somewhere in twitter a few days ago, I read the issue will be lighting and modifications for players lockers but fixable before the season starts.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 19, 2020 4:26:36 GMT -5
No idea what idea what MLB knew or didn't or should have. But Canada is likely aware of how many states have had upticks in cases and they don't want that potentially getting carried into Canada. I'm not going to fault Canada for being cautious when much of the US has ignored the social distancing and masking requirements. If MLB wants to blackball them for it, then say goodbye to the Canadian market. And all the US owners are supposed to blame the Toronto owners for decisions of the Canadian government? that is valid and i hadn't thought of it in those terms. However, that has to be weighed against the notions that the league is going to have tight controls over player conduct. There is an assumption that travel is going to be chartered. There are only 30 games and they will be without fans anyway. Some of the mitigation has been addressed, as best as possible, at this time. The US conduct during this pandemic has been borderline atrocious and so Canada has an interest in keeping their citizens safe, for sure, the question is if this is real CoVid threat for them to take this action. They obviously think it is. When I was talking owners, I meant Blue Jay owners specifically. They will likely have to pay rent on any other stadium. that wont make them happy. Perhaps Canada will reimburse, but I doubt it. Edit: there are 60 games total and players would be traveling in and out of country. Noteworthy.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 19, 2020 6:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2020 6:48:30 GMT -5
If I'm a Blue Jay I'm out. Just the logistics of being in America and going back if necessary and seeing family gives me a popsicle headache. You're assuming they all live in Toronto and are going to commute or something. My guess is they'll all live in hotels for the two-and-a-half months of the season or whatever. I doubt many of these guys have full-time residences in Toronto.
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Post by cba82 on Jul 19, 2020 8:03:39 GMT -5
Maybe they will play in their AA ManchVegas ballpark? Edit: Yeah, Buffalo makes more sense. I didn't know their AAA affiliate was there. Playing in Manchester makes very good sense: 1) A good facility, including hospitality suites that could be turned into mini locker rooms; 2) A hotel adjacent to the ballpark, and another a short walk away; 3) Easy bus ride to and from Boston for games vs. the Red Sox; 4) An airport right in Manchester; and 5) New Hampshire has among the lowest new-case rates in the country.
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Post by Canseco on Jul 19, 2020 11:01:48 GMT -5
I live in Buffalo, and it‘s pretty well set up for the Jays as a temporary home. The stadium was built in the late 80s with hopes of attracting a big league club, so it’s not your typical AAA park. It would obviously need some upgrades, as the article above mentioned, but should be okay for these circumstances. Lots of hotels within walking distance of the stadium, too, so players wouldn’t be put out too badly.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 19, 2020 11:42:55 GMT -5
Really, can’t the blue Jays basically play anywhere? It’s a TV season anyway? A college stadium or TD Ameritrade Park Omaha (the College World Series venue) or any minor stadium that has lights? Isn’t there a stadium in or New York City they could use? That would cut down on the travel.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jul 19, 2020 12:11:00 GMT -5
I think Hartford would make a great alternative site for the Blue Jay's. The ballpark is 3 years old, Bradley Airport is nearby permitting travel to the Northeast and Mid Atlantic easily and CT has one of the lowest rates of transmission in the county. Also, no ANTIFA! Just pesky billionaire s who want bailouts and don't pay taxes.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 19, 2020 15:02:01 GMT -5
Canada has 1/10th the population of the United States and 5 cities with over a million people. Apples and oranges. Aside from that, your success criteria is number of infections where many people (myself included) are more concerned with death rates. Canada's death rate (number of deaths divided by number of cases) is over 8%. The US is less than half that and has been trending around 1-2% for some time. We've done a far better job of keeping people alive than Canada and many other countries and I would consider that the ultimate measure of success. Won't get too much into red state blue state stuff, but there is clearly and obviously a difference in how red states and blue states are approaching things and it's impacting state decisions on reopening. It may not be wholly nefarious, but it is unquestionably deliberate. Comparing absolute numbers of cases in the US and Canada would indeed be apples to oranges, which is one reason I compared Canada to Florida. Canada has 37 million people, Florida has 21 million. But Florida is reporting about 30x as many cases. And the Blue Jays are scheduled to make three trips to Florida, and another one to Georgia where things are almost as bad. (That's the other reason I chose Florida for the comparison.) If you think death rates are a better indicator of the public health situation, Canada is averaging 11 deaths per day (and the trend is flat), Florida is averaging 100 (and the trend is rising). Canada as a whole is averaging 1 death per 3.36 million people per day; the US is averaging 1 death per 416,000 people per day - about 8x as many per capita. I guess all I'm saying is things are indisputably much worse in the US right now and I would have been surprised if the Canadians had decided differently. Just looking at population kinda misses the point he was making. Florida is 66,000 square miles, Canada is 3.8 million square miles. It's about population density. I don't think Canada is do anything special, they are just a lot more spread out.
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Post by jl1947 on Jul 19, 2020 16:42:42 GMT -5
How does the population density argument account for 30X count of COVID-19 cases. Tell the people in Toronrto, Montreal, Vancouver,Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa-Gatineau about population density. Each of them has a higher population than Jacksonville (which is really spread out in terms of density).
Toronto, for example, has about 6 1/2 times the population of Jacksonville and probably twice as dense. The smallest of the Canadian cities I listed above is about twice as large in population as the second largest populous city in Florida, Miami.
You would have to go to total metro area populations in Florida to make a better comparison.
While it is true that many Canadians live in sparsely populated areas, the density, as of 2014, almost 70% of Canadians lived in Metropolitan areas (69.9%) versus 91% in Florida. That is a little misleading though, because no city in Florida is as densely populated as any of the top five cities in Canada. Even so, a better comparison of density might be Boston v Montreal than any major city in Florida with any major city in Canada.
So even discounting for the mental gymnastics in applying conspiracy theories linking Canada with Blue State/Red State politization of COVID-19, the blaming of Canada for the consequences of our inadequate response to this pandemic is hard to justify.
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art
Veteran
Posts: 335
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Post by art on Jul 19, 2020 16:54:31 GMT -5
Comparing absolute numbers of cases in the US and Canada would indeed be apples to oranges, which is one reason I compared Canada to Florida. Canada has 37 million people, Florida has 21 million. But Florida is reporting about 30x as many cases. And the Blue Jays are scheduled to make three trips to Florida, and another one to Georgia where things are almost as bad. (That's the other reason I chose Florida for the comparison.) If you think death rates are a better indicator of the public health situation, Canada is averaging 11 deaths per day (and the trend is flat), Florida is averaging 100 (and the trend is rising). Canada as a whole is averaging 1 death per 3.36 million people per day; the US is averaging 1 death per 416,000 people per day - about 8x as many per capita. I guess all I'm saying is things are indisputably much worse in the US right now and I would have been surprised if the Canadians had decided differently. Just looking at population kinda misses the point he was making. Florida is 66,000 square miles, Canada is 3.8 million square miles. It's about population density. I don't think Canada is do anything special, they are just a lot more spread out. Most of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the US border. There are hardly any roads more than 200 miles from the border. If it's "about population density" why is South Korea (pop. 1338 per sq. mi.) doing so much better than the US (87 per sq. mi.)? It's all about policy, not population density.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2020 17:08:46 GMT -5
I deleted a bunch of irrelevant stuff. COVID rates etc are kind of relevant but let's not stray too far from the topic here folks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 18:21:13 GMT -5
How does the population density argument account for 30X count of COVID-19 cases. Tell the people in Totonrto, Montreal, Vancouver,Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa-Gatineau about population density. Each of them has a higher population than Jacksonville (which is really spread out in terms of density). Toronto, for example, has about 6 1/2 times the population of Jacksonville and probably twice as dense. The smallest of the Canadian cities I listed above is about twice as large in population as the second largest populous city in Florida, Miami. You would have to go to total metro area populations in Florida to make a better comparison. While it is true that many Canadians live in sparsely populated areas, the density, as of 2014, almost 70% of Canadians lived in Metropolitan areas (69.9%) versus 91% in Florida. That is a little misleading though, because no city in Florida is as densely populated as any of the top five cities in Canada. Even so, a better comparison of density might be Boston v Montreal than any major city in Florida with any major city in Canada. So even discounting for the mental gymnastics in applying conspiracy theories linking Canada with Blue State/Red State politization of COVID-19, the blaming of Canada for the consequences of our inadequate response to this pandemic is hard to justify. One of a hundred examples I could have given as to why Canada is different than Florida. You're missing the point, but I'm not going to to comment any further since I've already been censored/deleted.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 20, 2020 10:17:02 GMT -5
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Post by beavertontim on Jul 20, 2020 11:27:21 GMT -5
Indianapolis and Nashville both have nice stadiums. Not too far from the rest of the temporary division.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 20, 2020 14:09:24 GMT -5
I mean, they obviously are. That naturally follows from not being allowed to play in Toronto, right? ----- JJ Cooper just tweeted that apparently no minor league stadium meets MLB's lighting and clubhouse requirements. The one park that might meet them is TD Ameritrade in Omaha, which hosts the College World Series. This is a very bad situation. There's no clear answer. If they try to share a park with a team, the logistics are going to be a mess.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 20, 2020 14:45:45 GMT -5
I am somewhat surprised that BB&T in Charlotte doesn't have lighting that's considered adequate. No idea about the clubhouse situation (it's a newer park so it'd probably on the better side), but yeah that is no bueno.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 20, 2020 15:53:41 GMT -5
Would the old Ballpark in Arlington be an option? Wikipedia says:
I would think it could be unretrofitted easily enough. Now granted, they'd have to yield use of the 50,000 seat stadium to Major League Rugby, the behemoth of the American sporting scene, but apparently MLR has suspended play until 2021.
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