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Mookie Betts signing an extension with LAD (13y/380M)
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Post by Smittyw on Jul 22, 2020 16:38:37 GMT -5
My main thought is just good for him for getting the sort of years and money he wanted, COVID and all.
I've already been through all the stages of grief here, and at least this saves us from suffering the Jon Lester route of getting our hopes up for a reunion only to have our hearts broken all over again in December...
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 16:43:04 GMT -5
Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. Yup. Would have loved to have seen the Sox offer about what LA did and see what he would have done. If he shopped it, then you know the Sox put their best foot forward and that Mookie really didn't want to stay. I mean offering more than Trout's total - you know the Sox didn't take the easy way out. Instead they make an offer that was obvious he would reject and obvious far less than he thought he'd get. At least they got something for him, but not the front line pitcher they hoped for, but two regular players and a useful bench guy. I mean, if the Sox really didn't intend to show Mookie the money then they did well to get something for him, but that's all I really get out of this. The Sox wanted him back but on their terms. They didn't want him THAT badly. I hope this doesn't totally backfire on them. Maybe they dodge a bullet, but it doesn't really feel like it. He's still damn young and whatever he does with the Dodgers you know he'd accomplish more if he stayed with the Sox (kind of like Freddy Lynn). Lynn is the comp I worry about. The return on him was nil. It doesn’t look as bad in retrospect because he was never the same. But that doesn’t mean the Sox lost what he was in California... because he might have been more like himself if he’d stayed. If Mookie’s numbers dip slightly, people will feel vindicated, but it doesn’t mean he would have dipped in a Sox jersey. And.... not to relitigate in detail, but I am not a believer in the return. God save us from Joe Rudi/Frank Tanana bad, but...
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2020 16:46:01 GMT -5
Also worth thinking about for the we should have kept Mookie crowd: - Red Sox had no way of predicting the COVID-19 pandemic and how it woulf affect this season and beyond (both in amount games played and the finances $) - You keep Mookie to make another run without your best starting pitcher in Sale who is out for the season. - No Mookie trade means Price is still in Boston. He eventually opted out of this season so you can’t trade him and are still stuck with the contract. - Shorter season means that if you were out of it and got the sense that Mookie was going to leave in FA, you would not be able to get the return we did at the trade deadline. Just way too complicated of a situation. I think Bloom struck at the right time regardless of Mookie now signing an extension with the Dodgers. Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. It's very easy to imagine how this could have unfolded without any lies or misunderstanding: Mookie had a sincere intention to test the market. Then the pandemic hit and everything went all to hell, and there's tons of talk about how depressed the free agent market is likely to be this winter; I feel like just a few days ago I was reading about how even guys like Mookie might be signing one-year deals. Then for whatever reason LA went ahead and offered him basically what I would've expected him to get in a normal free agent market anyway. And Mookie, offered the keys to a palace in the midst of a wide blasted landscape, very understandably said yes.
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 16:59:54 GMT -5
Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. It's very easy to imagine how this could have unfolded without any lies or misunderstanding: Mookie had a sincere intention to test the market. Then the pandemic hit and everything went all to hell, and there's tons of talk about how depressed the free agent market is likely to be this winter; I feel like just a few days ago I was reading about how even guys like Mookie might be signing one-year deals. Then for whatever reason LA went ahead and offered him basically what I would've expected him to get in a normal free agent market anyway. And Mookie, offered the keys to a palace in the midst of a wide blasted landscape, very understandably said yes. Ok, that seems reasonable. Nonetheless, I suppose it means the keep-Mookie side would have “lucked” into one more reason on top of all the rest. Patience rewarded.
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 22, 2020 17:05:25 GMT -5
12yrs/$365....amazing, through age 39. No trade? Opt out(s)?
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Post by Canseco on Jul 22, 2020 17:33:59 GMT -5
13 years? Hard pass. I love Mookie, but will take my chances with Verdugo and future payroll flexibility.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,295
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Post by radiohix on Jul 22, 2020 18:22:10 GMT -5
The Sox are totally signing Springer this winter
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 22, 2020 18:23:01 GMT -5
Still super salty about this. Remember when Mookie was the best player on the best Red Sox team ever?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 22, 2020 18:47:51 GMT -5
The Sox are totally signing Springer this winter I'm scared of Warner/Henry overreacting and giving Springer 250 million.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 22, 2020 19:00:41 GMT -5
Mookie is probably my favorite baseball player of all time (I'm in my early 20's and have been a baseball fan for maybe 10 years, so the only other guy really in consideration is Big Papi who is up there), but after seeing the deal I'm pretty okay with it. I like Downs and Verdugo a LOT and wouldn't feel super comfortable with that deal, so it sucks but I get it.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 22, 2020 19:06:36 GMT -5
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Post by soxaddict on Jul 22, 2020 19:16:01 GMT -5
Congrats to Mookie! He was one of my favorites and hated seeing him go, but I think the Red Sox made the right decision.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jul 22, 2020 19:20:30 GMT -5
Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. It's very easy to imagine how this could have unfolded without any lies or misunderstanding: Mookie had a sincere intention to test the market. Then the pandemic hit and everything went all to hell, and there's tons of talk about how depressed the free agent market is likely to be this winter; I feel like just a few days ago I was reading about how even guys like Mookie might be signing one-year deals. Then for whatever reason LA went ahead and offered him basically what I would've expected him to get in a normal free agent market anyway. And Mookie, offered the keys to a palace in the midst of a wide blasted landscape, very understandably said yes. Completely agree, testing the market might have been the mindset in a world where one didn't think it was possible for a team to play 1 game without fans, let alone 60 (with 102 cancelled). It's not unreasonable to think that his view has changed.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jul 22, 2020 19:48:05 GMT -5
I’m irrationally angry.
Not at Mookie and not at the Sox, I’m just upset I don’t get what I want. I wanted to watch him have a HOF career playing in Boston. You get attached to players. We all followed him here since he was about 20 years old. We watched him become an MVP.
It sucks he won’t have a “B” on his hat.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 22, 2020 20:04:23 GMT -5
Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. It's very easy to imagine how this could have unfolded without any lies or misunderstanding: Mookie had a sincere intention to test the market. Then the pandemic hit and everything went all to hell, and there's tons of talk about how depressed the free agent market is likely to be this winter; I feel like just a few days ago I was reading about how even guys like Mookie might be signing one-year deals. Then for whatever reason LA went ahead and offered him basically what I would've expected him to get in a normal free agent market anyway. And Mookie, offered the keys to a palace in the midst of a wide blasted landscape, very understandably said yes. This. Mookie needed to take this contract. Teams are looking at tiny revenue this summer (there is a reason the players didn’t want a revenue split). In the winter there was a real chance that no team offered him close to this much money. Then there is the possibility of a work stoppage, followed by changes to the compensation system. If you were his agent could you honestly tell Mookie he will get more this winter? Never mind the risk that he will be forced to take a one year deal, followed by a different compensation system (e.g hard cap [nfl] or max salary [NBA]).
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Post by swingingbunt on Jul 22, 2020 20:04:38 GMT -5
Do I think this too long of a contract? Let's see....kids just learning to read will be in college before it's finished.
Yes. I think it's too long of a contract.
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 20:08:39 GMT -5
Do I think this too long of a contract? Let's see....kids just learning to read will be in college before it's finished. Yes. I think it's too long of a contract. If they are reading that the Dodgers won a WS, it is not too long.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2020 20:34:00 GMT -5
I’m irrationally angry. Not at Mookie and not at the Sox, I’m just upset I don’t get what I want. I wanted to watch him have a HOF career playing in Boston. You get attached to players. We all followed him here since he was about 20 years old. We watched him become an MVP. It sucks he won’t have a “B” on his hat. Yeah. I get how things came to this pass, but at the end of the day it would have been a great thing for him to spend his career in Boston, and the Red Sox are the sort of team that has the resources to make that happen, and yet... it didn't happen. It just stinks.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 22:00:15 GMT -5
Yup. Would have loved to have seen the Sox offer about what LA did and see what he would have done. If he shopped it, then you know the Sox put their best foot forward and that Mookie really didn't want to stay. I mean offering more than Trout's total - you know the Sox didn't take the easy way out. Instead they make an offer that was obvious he would reject and obvious far less than he thought he'd get. At least they got something for him, but not the front line pitcher they hoped for, but two regular players and a useful bench guy. I mean, if the Sox really didn't intend to show Mookie the money then they did well to get something for him, but that's all I really get out of this. The Sox wanted him back but on their terms. They didn't want him THAT badly. I hope this doesn't totally backfire on them. Maybe they dodge a bullet, but it doesn't really feel like it. He's still damn young and whatever he does with the Dodgers you know he'd accomplish more if he stayed with the Sox (kind of like Freddy Lynn). Lynn is the comp I worry about. The return on him was nil. It doesn’t look as bad in retrospect because he was never the same. But that doesn’t mean the Sox lost what he was in California... because he might have been more like himself if he’d stayed. If Mookie’s numbers dip slightly, people will feel vindicated, but it doesn’t mean he would have dipped in a Sox jersey. And.... not to relitigate in detail, but I am not a believer in the return. God save us from Joe Rudi/Frank Tanana bad, but... I agree with your point about losing what Betts was in Boston compared to what he'll be in LA (which I suspect will still be an awesome player) with your Lynn comparison. I do think that the return will be better than a broken down Joe Rudi, an injured Frank Tanana who was a one year rental in transition (from flamethrower to finesse pitcher) and a never was in Jim Dorsey. Verdugo and Downs should be solid players. Wong could be useful. When I see Verdugo I think he can be a Shane Victorino type, a guy with a good hit tool, hitting around .280 - .300 with medium power - about 15 HRs/year when the ball isn't ridiculously juiced, with a strong arm, good range, and decent speed - to be fair Victorino when he was young had much better than decent speed. But I think Victorino is a decent comp. Downs should be a solid 2b. Should be able to hit .260 - .270 with some pop, like 20 HRs per year out of a 2b. Wong should display some power but will get short circuited by his K/BB ratio. The shame is that Graterol didn't have the arm to be the top notch starter they were looking for and I was surprised that they couldn't grab Gray or even Caleb Ferguson, if not Gonsolin or even Stripling out of the Dodgers' system. But the return should be better, but we're talking average to above average regulars with years of control, which isn't nothing. They just won't be Mookie Betts because nobody can be. The trade itself was less an issue for me than the idea that the Sox never extended themselves to put up a Mike Troutish offer which I think was pretty apparent as to what Mookie was looking for. Like I said, if he had turned that down, then I wouldn't blame the Sox for saying, the heck with it, let's trade him. But for the Sox to lowball him leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like they seriously didn't even try. I suppose by 2026 we'll be saying it's nice that the Sox don't have to pay Mookie $27 million/year when he starts to decline, but that won't make me feel that much better over the next several years.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 22:03:41 GMT -5
The Sox are totally signing Springer this winter I have alluded to that possibility in the past. It can add up as Springer is a Red Sox fan and grew up in New Britain, CT. If Dombrowski was here and they let Mookie go, I could totally see him signing Springer, but with Bloom, I'm not 100% sure. If there's a hometown discount of some sort, and Bloom feels there's value, then yeah, I could see it. I guess a lot will depend on Jarren Duran, if the Sox fall out of it and trade JBJ away and Duran gets an audition and looks like the future, but if he looks more like a #4 OF, then yeah, I could definitely see Springer. My guess is that the Sox will take their money and spend it on pitching help after the season, although I'm not really sure who's available. Or they could keep Duran in CF, sign Springer, and with Verdugo to complete the OF, trade Benintendi for pitching help if they don't like the free agent pitching market.
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Post by cheers on Jul 22, 2020 22:08:32 GMT -5
Best wishes to Mookie and his family. Enjoy being spectacularly wealthy. Thanks for the wonderful time in a Sox uniform. Hoping you have a 1st ballot HOF career, on a team that I hope never wins anything again. Ever.
I guess I should be more charitable re: the Dodgers, as they love taking bad contracts off our hands.
Allow me to rephrase.
Good luck Mookie, hope you are in the WS every year (but lose).
Sucks that we were not able to keep that guy around. Love him, but the price was too steep. I'm with the FO on this one.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 22:10:31 GMT -5
Best wishes to Mookie and his family. Enjoy being spectacularly wealthy. Thanks for the wonderful time in a Sox uniform. Hoping you have a 1st ballot HOF career, on a team that I hope never wins anything again. Ever. I guess I should be more charitable re: the Dodgers, as they love taking bad contracts off our hands. Allow me to rephrase. Good luck Mookie, hope you are in the WS every year (but lose). Sucks that we were not able to keep that guy around. Love him, but the price was too steep. I'm with the FO on this one. Well if the Dodgers are playing the Yankees in the World Series, then I hope Mookie gets his ring. Here's an interesting question: Will Mookie be remembered more as a Red Sox or as a Dodger? Like Carlton Fisk spent more years with the White Sox, but will always be remembered more as a Red Sox.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 22, 2020 22:19:25 GMT -5
Best wishes to Mookie and his family. Enjoy being spectacularly wealthy. Thanks for the wonderful time in a Sox uniform. Hoping you have a 1st ballot HOF career, on a team that I hope never wins anything again. Ever. I guess I should be more charitable re: the Dodgers, as they love taking bad contracts off our hands. Allow me to rephrase. Good luck Mookie, hope you are in the WS every year (but lose). Sucks that we were not able to keep that guy around. Love him, but the price was too steep. I'm with the FO on this one. Well if the Dodgers are playing the Yankees in the World Series, then I hope Mookie gets his ring. Here's an interesting question: Will Mookie be remembered more as a Red Sox or as a Dodger? Like Carlton Fisk spent more years with the White Sox, but will always be remembered more as a Red Sox. I don’t know if people in Chicago would agree with you on Carlton Fisk. There is a reason why players cannot choose their cap any more.
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Post by cheers on Jul 22, 2020 22:19:56 GMT -5
Best wishes to Mookie and his family. Enjoy being spectacularly wealthy. Thanks for the wonderful time in a Sox uniform. Hoping you have a 1st ballot HOF career, on a team that I hope never wins anything again. Ever. I guess I should be more charitable re: the Dodgers, as they love taking bad contracts off our hands. Allow me to rephrase. Good luck Mookie, hope you are in the WS every year (but lose). Sucks that we were not able to keep that guy around. Love him, but the price was too steep. I'm with the FO on this one. Well if the Dodgers are playing the Yankees in the World Series, then I hope Mookie gets his ring. Here's an interesting question: Will Mookie be remembered more as a Red Sox or as a Dodger? Like Carlton Fisk spent more years with the White Sox, but will always be remembered more as a Red Sox. Absolutely. A ring swiped from the MFY is a ring taken for all that is good and holy (says the agnostic). Also, I suspect he isn't going to be a 1st ballot HOF guy. I bet he will be really good for the next 5 years or so (ASG starter), then tail off. If that is the case, he'll be remembered as one of the Sox.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 22:22:38 GMT -5
Well if the Dodgers are playing the Yankees in the World Series, then I hope Mookie gets his ring. Here's an interesting question: Will Mookie be remembered more as a Red Sox or as a Dodger? Like Carlton Fisk spent more years with the White Sox, but will always be remembered more as a Red Sox. I don’t know if people in Chicago would agree with you on Carlton Fisk. There is a reason why players cannot choose their cap any more. Perhaps, and I know it comes off as homerish, but is there any more replayed highlight than his HR in Game 6 1975? I mean when you think Fisk you think of that moment and that moment came as a Red Sox. Did he really have any huge indelible moments as a White Sox? Maybe hitting a HR against the Bosox on Opening Day 1981? I know he helped lead the White Sox to their first post-season appearance in 24 years when they won the division but they went splat against the Orioles in the ALCS. And the ChiSox were largely mediocre thereafter for the next 10 years he was there.
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