redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 10:10:23 GMT -5
Bold prediction: Mookie signs extension with Dodgers that seems like something the Sox could have done. Verdugo is mediocre when healthy. Trade already being lumped in with Bagwell and Lynn by end of truncated season. You'll be proven correct soon enough as Lou Merloni is saying that according to his sources Mookie will be signing a ten year extension for between 350 - 400 million with the Dodgers. weei.radio.com/blogs/weei/mlb-rumors-mookie-betts-dodgers-close-to-long-term-deal
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 10:55:13 GMT -5
Joel Sherman is backing up what Lou Merloni is reporting - that fantasies of Mookie returning to the Red Sox are about gone.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 22, 2020 11:09:11 GMT -5
if true, it is disappointing, but not unexpected. Have to see the terms to really comment. I don't understand with this franchise, why a lot of our great ones leave, it seems. Purely anecdotal, but other large markets just don't seem to go through this as often (at least not during the players prime)
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Post by fisterroboto on Jul 22, 2020 11:17:59 GMT -5
Joel Sherman is backing up what Lou Merloni is reporting - that fantasies of Mookie returning to the Red Sox are about gone. I'm a bit out of the loop, have we already had the "We offered more. Mookie never wanted to be in Boston" stories leak from the FO, or will they happen now that he's not hitting FA?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 11:25:45 GMT -5
if true, it is disappointing, but not unexpected. Have to see the terms to really comment. I don't understand with this franchise, why a lot of our great ones leave, it seems. Purely anecdotal, but other large markets just don't seem to go through this as often (at least not during the players prime) The Red Sox didn't want to pay him what he perceived he'd get on the open market. It's that simple. Now that the market is more questionable perhaps the Dodgers are simply giving him the magic number he wanted, which the Sox wouldn't do and he's not looking to drum up competition. We'll never know for sure, but I do wish the Sox had offered him 10 years $363 million or something like that (Trout's total money) to see if Mookie would have accepted. Maybe he would have. Maybe he wouldn't have. But I would have felt better about the Sox' decision to trade him if they hadn't low-balled him. Offer him more money than what the highest paid player is getting and he turns it down, then ok, but if you lowball him and duh...he turns it down...I feel zero sympathy for the Red Sox management. The Sox have never developed a 5 tool (and he had other tools like plate discipline and great human being as well) player like Mookie before and it'll be quite a long time before they do so again. It's sad. The parallels are a bit different but they're there. 5 championships in the first two decades of the 20th century and they trade away (sell) the best player in the game because they don't want to pay him. Then in this century, 4 championships in the first two decades, and they deal one of the top players in the game (Trout is the best) because they don't want to pay him his worth. Thankfully David Ortiz was a DH, where they could chisel his value, (and he was also damn loyal) or else he wouldn't have lasted the duration of his career. The Red Sox can and do pay for big ticket items but when it comes to keeping the biggest, I would anticipate that a bigger fish gets that prize. At least thankfully this time it's the Dodgers, not the Yankees. And this time, Betts is 27, not 25 like Ruth who reshaped the entire game. At least the loss won't be in that stratosphere, but then again if the Sox don't win a championship for another 86 years....lol.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 22, 2020 11:29:54 GMT -5
if true, it is disappointing, but not unexpected. Have to see the terms to really comment. I don't understand with this franchise, why a lot of our great ones leave, it seems. Purely anecdotal, but other large markets just don't seem to go through this as often (at least not during the players prime) I prefer the bigger picture. It's not the ones you lose, it's the ones you have. We have 4 rings since 2004.
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Post by trajanacc on Jul 22, 2020 12:02:44 GMT -5
If Mookie gets 10/350....wow. If the free agent market is as depressed as people have been saying, the Sox should be able to get way better value the next few years than paying that. I love Mookie and he's a generational talent, but that amount of money always represents a huge risk, and it would seem that now it's also above market value.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 13:01:20 GMT -5
If Mookie gets 10/350....wow. If the free agent market is as depressed as people have been saying, the Sox should be able to get way better value the next few years than paying that. I love Mookie and he's a generational talent, but that amount of money always represents a huge risk, and it would seem that now it's also above market value. You'd have to figure that in a way Mookie is setting the market. He is the premier free agent in baseball. When is baseball going to have a free agent like Mookie anytime soon? The answer is it could be quite awhile. The Dodgers are not going to risk some rogue team making a huge offer. They invested a lot to bring Mookie over. I'm sure they valued Verdugo, Wong, and Downs and weren't interested in parting with them merely to just rent Mookie.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 22, 2020 13:10:33 GMT -5
Bold prediction: Mookie signs extension with Dodgers that seems like something the Sox could have done. Verdugo is mediocre when healthy. Trade already being lumped in with Bagwell and Lynn by end of truncated season. The return the Sox got was underwhelming from the get go. Now to see that Mookie could have actually have been signed before free agency is a kick in the balls. Either he hated the city or the Sox cheaped out.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 22, 2020 13:20:17 GMT -5
Bold prediction: Mookie signs extension with Dodgers that seems like something the Sox could have done. Verdugo is mediocre when healthy. Trade already being lumped in with Bagwell and Lynn by end of truncated season. The return the Sox got was underwhelming from the get go. Now to see that Mookie could have actually have been signed before free agency is a kick in the balls. Either he hated the city or the Sox cheaped out. ...or the world and baseball are in the midst of a cataclysmic financial change with uncertain long-term impact and his calculus changed.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 22, 2020 13:24:32 GMT -5
The return the Sox got was underwhelming from the get go. Now to see that Mookie could have actually have been signed before free agency is a kick in the balls. Either he hated the city or the Sox cheaped out. ...or the world and baseball are in the midst of a cataclysmic financial change with uncertain long-term impact and his calculus changed. I don't think Mookie wanted any part of staying in Boston.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 22, 2020 13:26:55 GMT -5
Bold prediction: Mookie signs extension with Dodgers that seems like something the Sox could have done. Verdugo is mediocre when healthy. Trade already being lumped in with Bagwell and Lynn by end of truncated season. The return the Sox got was underwhelming from the get go. Now to see that Mookie could have actually have been signed before free agency is a kick in the balls. Either he hated the city or the Sox cheaped out. And when the Dodgers pay 380M for twelve years and go 32 more years and still no World Series rings while the Red Sox save money to make another 3+ rounded teams who win then and now I won't cry in my beer.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 22, 2020 13:34:10 GMT -5
The return the Sox got was underwhelming from the get go. Now to see that Mookie could have actually have been signed before free agency is a kick in the balls. Either he hated the city or the Sox cheaped out. ...or the world and baseball are in the midst of a cataclysmic financial change with uncertain long-term impact and his calculus changed. Exactly. Mookie’s # went down due to the pandemic.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 22, 2020 13:35:37 GMT -5
The Betts trade looks a lot better right now in my eyes. You got two very good young players and a decent third guy for 60 games. You moved Prices salary when that would be almost impossible now and he opted out saving you money. So even if you kept Betts, you have no Sale or Price for this season.
It's been reported as 380 plus million over 13 years. If they went that big without competition, he was getting more on the open market if Covid didn't happen. I love Betts, wish him well, yet want no part of a 13 year deal. I'm glad he got his money and I'm also glad it wasn't from us.
You can't compare the Betts trade to Bagwell. We didn't give up a future HOF with 6 plus years of cheap control for almost nothing. We gave up 60 games for young players while dumping Prices money.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 22, 2020 13:39:20 GMT -5
So if he is getting a extension of 12 years at 350M how can anyone in the know think the total is 380M as stated now to beat Trout's 360M? Seems like 60 game season of 162 would be less than 10M salary this year plus trout's money had that 66M left too.
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 22, 2020 13:41:29 GMT -5
Also worth thinking about for the we should have kept Mookie crowd:
- Red Sox had no way of predicting the COVID-19 pandemic and how it woulf affect this season and beyond (both in amount games played and the finances $) - You keep Mookie to make another run without your best starting pitcher in Sale who is out for the season. - No Mookie trade means Price is still in Boston. He eventually opted out of this season so you can’t trade him and are still stuck with the contract. - Shorter season means that if you were out of it and got the sense that Mookie was going to leave in FA, you would not be able to get the return we did at the trade deadline.
Just way too complicated of a situation. I think Bloom struck at the right time regardless of Mookie now signing an extension with the Dodgers.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jul 22, 2020 13:46:26 GMT -5
Silver lining, it’s finally over! We can move on.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 22, 2020 14:19:14 GMT -5
if true, it is disappointing, but not unexpected. Have to see the terms to really comment. I don't understand with this franchise, why a lot of our great ones leave, it seems. Purely anecdotal, but other large markets just don't seem to go through this as often (at least not during the players prime) I prefer the bigger picture. It's not the ones you lose, it's the ones you have. We have 4 rings since 2004. that is true, but watching players from beginning to end has a special meaning also. 13 yrs / 380 million. Congrats to Mookie. He played his hand and it came up a royal flush add: they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but point well taken
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 22, 2020 14:55:12 GMT -5
Reading between the lines now I know why the Dodgers had that package and was willing to work with the Red Sox on that deal. I believe through backchannels He wanted to go there. Albeit he still did good but the KEY is they negoitiated a deal. This was not present with the Red Sox. The Sox talked to themselves. That last counteroffer was a joke.
This is my opinion. My only beef was the rush to sign Sale because the last two years he had to be managed. But I dont know down the line what Betts will look like. I just an partial to our guys.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2020 15:32:18 GMT -5
Well first of all: Second of all: this seems awfully risky for the Dodgers, considering they haven't even seen him play in Dodger Stadium yet. He has a career OPS at Fenway of .930 and on the road at .858, and, yes, I'm aware of the fallacy of assuming a guy will hit at their new home park as if it were a road park, but there are some real reasons to think he benefited especially from Fenway in a way that he won't benefit from Dodger Stadium. Like, he had a BABIP of .333 at Fenway, and .295 on the road, and I suspect a fair bit of that difference has to do with the Green Monster.
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Post by manfred on Jul 22, 2020 16:29:28 GMT -5
Also worth thinking about for the we should have kept Mookie crowd: - Red Sox had no way of predicting the COVID-19 pandemic and how it woulf affect this season and beyond (both in amount games played and the finances $) - You keep Mookie to make another run without your best starting pitcher in Sale who is out for the season. - No Mookie trade means Price is still in Boston. He eventually opted out of this season so you can’t trade him and are still stuck with the contract. - Shorter season means that if you were out of it and got the sense that Mookie was going to leave in FA, you would not be able to get the return we did at the trade deadline. Just way too complicated of a situation. I think Bloom struck at the right time regardless of Mookie now signing an extension with the Dodgers. Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 22, 2020 16:30:02 GMT -5
...or the world and baseball are in the midst of a cataclysmic financial change with uncertain long-term impact and his calculus changed. Exactly. Mookie’s # went down due to the pandemic. Its the 2nd biggest contract in history. I'm not sure how you can hang your hat on Betts taking a discount at 365 million. If anything you can argue the Sox should have held Betts and when this pandemic hit traded him to San Diego. Absorb Wil Myers terrible deal and get better players than the Dodgers gave up. Friedman is a boss. This is worse than the Lester deal. Lester was a really good pitcher but at least the Sox got Porcello out of the Cespedes transaction. None of the guys they got from LA have superstar potential. Oh well...
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Post by splendidsplinter on Jul 22, 2020 16:31:16 GMT -5
Love a bunch of Mookie. Hate long term deals. If he signs a 10 year plus deal for over $300 million I am definitely out. He’s been a great player for us and provided great value. I hope he has lots of success but I like spreading the money around.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 22, 2020 16:34:21 GMT -5
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2020 16:36:54 GMT -5
Also worth thinking about for the we should have kept Mookie crowd: - Red Sox had no way of predicting the COVID-19 pandemic and how it woulf affect this season and beyond (both in amount games played and the finances $) - You keep Mookie to make another run without your best starting pitcher in Sale who is out for the season. - No Mookie trade means Price is still in Boston. He eventually opted out of this season so you can’t trade him and are still stuck with the contract. - Shorter season means that if you were out of it and got the sense that Mookie was going to leave in FA, you would not be able to get the return we did at the trade deadline. Just way too complicated of a situation. I think Bloom struck at the right time regardless of Mookie now signing an extension with the Dodgers. Except the we-should-have-kept him crowd knew most of this at the time. Sale was hurt; we’d keep Price; you make an unlikely run. The hope was you sign him to, well, what Dodgers did (remember the he won’t sign anything counter argument)? Doesn’t it seem likely that the Sox just never made this offer? The current state of things doesn’t make it better. If the Sox had Mookie and Price and the latter opted out... but Mookie was resigned.... that would be a win, even if this garbage “season” is blown. How did Bloom “strike”? We traded the second best player in baseball for players who do not have a difference-maker ceiling. The trade was predicated on the idea that Mookie was always going to test the market. Well... that turned out to be false. So someone either lied or misunderstood. Yup. Would have loved to have seen the Sox offer about what LA did and see what he would have done. If he shopped it, then you know the Sox put their best foot forward and that Mookie really didn't want to stay. I mean offering more than Trout's total - you know the Sox didn't take the easy way out. Instead they make an offer that was obvious he would reject and obvious far less than he thought he'd get. At least they got something for him, but not the front line pitcher they hoped for, but two regular players and a useful bench guy. I mean, if the Sox really didn't intend to show Mookie the money then they did well to get something for him, but that's all I really get out of this. The Sox wanted him back but on their terms. They didn't want him THAT badly. I hope this doesn't totally backfire on them. Maybe they dodge a bullet, but it doesn't really feel like it. He's still damn young and whatever he does with the Dodgers you know he'd accomplish more if he stayed with the Sox (kind of like Freddy Lynn).
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