Addam603
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 10, 2020 18:07:54 GMT -5
I’m not advocating trading CV, but if they can get good value for him then I think it’s something they should consider.
The Rockies are a good fit. They’re leading the NL west but getting squat from their catchers. 30th in team WAR at the catching position.
The Rockies could build a package around their #3 prospect, Ryan Rolison. Advanced lefty hasn’t pitched above A+ but he’s in their player pool. 4 pitches that grade at least league average.
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Post by coke0myfavdrink on Aug 10, 2020 19:28:59 GMT -5
I’m not advocating trading CV, but if they can get good value for him then I think it’s something they should consider. The Rockies are a good fit. They’re leading the NL west but getting squat from their catchers. 30th in team WAR at the catching position. The Rockies could build a package around their #3 prospect, Ryan Rolison. Advanced lefty hasn’t pitched above A+ but he’s in their player pool. 4 pitches that grade at least league average. Who catches in boston if they trade cv?
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 12, 2020 21:02:20 GMT -5
In 2020? Plawecki, Lucroy, Jett Bandy? Doug Mirabelli? Scott Hatteberg?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 12, 2020 22:41:13 GMT -5
In 2020? Plawecki, Lucroy, Jett Bandy? Doug Mirabelli? Scott Hatteberg? Probably Jon Denney, tbh. Gotta see what we've got there
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Post by soxjim on Aug 13, 2020 0:41:21 GMT -5
I’m not advocating trading CV, but if they can get good value for him then I think it’s something they should consider. The Rockies are a good fit. They’re leading the NL west but getting squat from their catchers. 30th in team WAR at the catching position. The Rockies could build a package around their #3 prospect, Ryan Rolison. Advanced lefty hasn’t pitched above A+ but he’s in their player pool. 4 pitches that grade at least league average. I would trade him. He has good value. I'd put him on the block as well as Devers.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 13, 2020 5:40:51 GMT -5
Vasquez is basically the most valuable player on this team at this point (him and X). I am not even thinking about listening to offers for him.
3 reasons
He is cheap He plays the most important position on the club We have no replacement ready.
Do people really want to relive the Sandy Leon era ? When you have a productive catcher, you don't trade him.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 13, 2020 6:53:34 GMT -5
Vasquez is basically the most valuable player on this team at this point (him and X). I am not even thinking about listening to offers for him. 3 reasons He is cheap He plays the most important position on the club We have no replacement ready. Do people really want to relive the Sandy Leon era ? When you have a productive catcher, you don't trade him. This is exactly the reason why you consider moving him. This is a lost season and his value would be someone who can either be a good contributing player to a contender or someone who can shepard a young pitching staff. Right now the Sox have neither. The Sox have a couple of JAGs that can handle this staff. Call Wong up before the season ends to get a couple of ABs. If someone like Anaheim or San Diego calls and offers one of their top prospects for Vazquez then you sit Vazquez down and thank him for 2018 but drive him to Logan. The fact of the matter is that he's closer to 30 than 20 and this team is going to have at least a 2 year reset. Makes sense to at least explore options.
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Post by jdb on Aug 13, 2020 7:58:47 GMT -5
I think I’d listen and don’t think he’s a cornerstone guy. Twins look like they’d be a great fit. I think if we make a trade or two lowering the payroll you could still see a Wil Myers attached with prospects and the system could look totally different heading into the winter.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 13, 2020 8:03:17 GMT -5
This is exactly the reason why you consider moving him. This is a lost season and his value would be someone who can either be a good contributing player to a contender or someone who can shepard a young pitching staff. Right now the Sox have neither. The Sox have a couple of JAGs that can handle this staff. Call Wong up before the season ends to get a couple of ABs. If someone like Anaheim or San Diego calls and offers one of their top prospects for Vazquez then you sit Vazquez down and thank him for 2018 but drive him to Logan. The fact of the matter is that he's closer to 30 than 20 and this team is going to have at least a 2 year reset. Makes sense to at least explore options. I just wouldn't do it. I think it is too hard to find a decent catcher. Although nothing is certain, Vasquez can easily play at a similar level for another 4-5 years. If you think the Sox will be decent within that time, you don't trade good catching. It has to do with scarcity of good players at the position. We had Varitek all those years and it was a big bonus. Add. A smart rebuild doesn't mean just trading every valuable asset. There is guesswork, but I would bet that trading Vasquez is not on Bloom's radar right now.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 13, 2020 9:22:26 GMT -5
This is exactly the reason why you consider moving him. This is a lost season and his value would be someone who can either be a good contributing player to a contender or someone who can shepard a young pitching staff. Right now the Sox have neither. The Sox have a couple of JAGs that can handle this staff. Call Wong up before the season ends to get a couple of ABs. If someone like Anaheim or San Diego calls and offers one of their top prospects for Vazquez then you sit Vazquez down and thank him for 2018 but drive him to Logan. The fact of the matter is that he's closer to 30 than 20 and this team is going to have at least a 2 year reset. Makes sense to at least explore options. I just wouldn't do it. I think it is too hard to find a decent catcher. Although nothing is certain, Vasquez can easily play at a similar level for another 4-5 years. If you think the Sox will be decent within that time, you don't trade good catching. It has to do with scarcity of good players at the position. We had Varitek all those years and it was a big bonus. Add. A smart rebuild doesn't mean just trading every valuable asset. There is guesswork, but I would bet that trading Vasquez is not on Bloom's radar right now. Fair enough. I just look at some teams right now who are contending IMO and see the catchers on those squads. Its an important position for sure but other than say Will Smith and Realmuto can you really name a dual threat catcher on a contender? Its like point guard in the NBA. Just my opinion of course. My view on Smith might be skewed since I love the way him and to a lesser extent Murphy plays. I feel that if you're going to keep anyone Xander and Devers need to be untouchable. Benny too for the simple fact that his value is rock bottom right now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2020 11:18:51 GMT -5
You don't try and trade him. Yet if a team wants to get stupid, you certainly don't not move him either. It's just tricky because you have to get another catcher in that deal or another one. A team like the Padres could offer you a package that would be hard to turn down for example and they have young catchers. One in the majors and a highly rated guy in the minors, plus they have major league ready pitching.
Wanna think big include Myers and also send them Moreland to DH/1B. Highly unlikely, but crazy fun to talk about raiding an elite farm system.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 13, 2020 14:46:39 GMT -5
You don't try and trade him. Yet if a team wants to get stupid, you certainly don't not move him either. It's just tricky because you have to get another catcher in that deal or another one. A team like the Padres could offer you a package that would be hard to turn down for example and they have young catchers. One in the majors and a highly rated guy in the minors, plus they have major league ready pitching. Wanna think big include Myers and also send them Moreland to DH/1B. Highly unlikely, but crazy fun to talk about raiding an elite farm system. I've said this for the last few weeks. If the Angels want to move someone like Jo Adell or Marsh for Vazquez (won't happen lol but for arguments sake) the next conversation that Chaim needs to have with Christian better be along the lines of asking him which airline he prefers to fly for his trip to California.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 13, 2020 16:48:16 GMT -5
Vasquez is basically the most valuable player on this team at this point (him and X). I am not even thinking about listening to offers for him. 3 reasons He is cheap He plays the most important position on the club We have no replacement ready. Do people really want to relive the Sandy Leon era ? When you have a productive catcher, you don't trade him. Do you really want to be lousy for possibly 3 years and maybe more? If you aren't willing to part with some of your good major league players and your prospects coming up aren't that great-- hell yeah I can "settle" for Sandy Leon who was part of some very successful teams. Where is Vaz going to lead this team? He's a piece that needs greater parts. The Sox don't have enough "good enough" parts going forward. As for a replacement that's why you can package players in a trade or trade Devers and get a younger catcher along with more.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 13, 2020 17:00:17 GMT -5
Vasquez is basically the most valuable player on this team at this point (him and X). I am not even thinking about listening to offers for him. 3 reasons He is cheap He plays the most important position on the club We have no replacement ready. Do people really want to relive the Sandy Leon era ? When you have a productive catcher, you don't trade him. Do you really want to be lousy for possibly 3 years and maybe more? If you aren't willing to part with some of your good major league players and your prospects coming up aren't that great-- hell yeah I can "settle" for Sandy Leon who was part of some very successful teams. Where is Vaz going to lead this team? He's a piece that needs greater parts. The Sox don't have enough "good enough" parts going forward. As for a replacement that's why you can package players in a trade or trade Devers and get a younger catcher along with more. i don't view this team as bad as some do. There has been a big shock to the system with the loss of Mookie and Price. The team also had an abundance of back luck this year with pitching health. I am also not trading Devers based on a 20 game struggle. I stand by keeping Vasquez as being a smart move. We will have to disagree here. I can easily see us as contenders, even next year. Chaim and the FO will do what they can, we should have healthy pitchers back and we hopefully wont have CoVid issues. This orginization is not in as bad a shape as some think
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Post by soxjim on Aug 13, 2020 18:36:19 GMT -5
Do you really want to be lousy for possibly 3 years and maybe more? If you aren't willing to part with some of your good major league players and your prospects coming up aren't that great-- hell yeah I can "settle" for Sandy Leon who was part of some very successful teams. Where is Vaz going to lead this team? He's a piece that needs greater parts. The Sox don't have enough "good enough" parts going forward. As for a replacement that's why you can package players in a trade or trade Devers and get a younger catcher along with more. i don't view this team as bad as some do. There has been a big shock to the system with the loss of Mookie and Price. The team also had an abundance of back luck this year with pitching health. I am also not trading Devers based on a 20 game struggle. I stand by keeping Vasquez as being a smart move. We will have to disagree here. I can easily see us as contenders, even next year. Chaim and the FO will do what they can, we should have healthy pitchers back and we hopefully wont have CoVid issues. This orginization is not in as bad a shape as some think Well that;s where we disagree. For anyone who thinks this team is terrible and next year no good (as I do. By that I mean - "not near a contender to win it all.") then would you say then "trade Vaz?" I agree with you if the team can be good this year or next as a contender then I agree. But I don't believe it will happen. I think their future rests upon their starting pitching. Yes it was bad luck or whatever but it's time to move on and make decisions. If you think this team can bounce back 2021-- okay - that's a positive for the near outlook so keep what you can-- sure. But I don't see "positive." I don't trust the effectiveness of Sale next year and I'm scared to hell about ERod. Without those two bouncing back and Eovaldi remaining healthy, where are the Red Sox going? Where is Rafa Devers going to lead this team if Sale and ERod are not very good next year? Then how long do we wait for them and hope Eovaldi remains healthy? I see this team in dug-deep hole until there is some clarity from their starting pitching. And as promising as Devers is, and as good as Xander is-- they don't have pitching to sustain success to compete for titles. So I am not trading Devers because of his 20 game struggle. I would trade him to acquire multiple (3) prospects because imo we have to recognize we're in a major rebuild. We need "more quality players." One prospect to get is top tier catcher along with pitching. The Red Sox are not winning without quality starting pitching or if they build a supreme super bullpen. The only way to start to see quality pitching is either hope you get in FA or rebuild or just pray for luck. I don't see how they can be very good next year without Sale and ERod bouncing back, or if one bounces back very well and they get a terrific FA starter. So in 2018 while I was defending all the moves made by DD and JH throughout the year while quite a few were at the end ripping the Sox management for not getting relievers etc, - if I don't see by 2nd half of 2021 either the team being good or looking forward to top prospects coming available in 2022, then I'll be just like those in 2018 on here ripping mad at the organization for it's failure to see what was happening in 2020 (and maybe before.). I'm going to scream for the GM to be fired.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Aug 13, 2020 20:59:40 GMT -5
Years ago Ralph Kiner asked the Pirates for more money than they'd offered him for the coming season. Pittsburgh's response: We finished in last place with you. We can do so without you.
What's done is done. Payroll issues, trades, etc. No sense debating past decisions that have led us to today's situation. In my view, we need to be sellers, open to any and all trades. Take a page from Belichick and trade players a year before they decline. Boston's lineup has shown it won't win anything as presently constructed. Injured pitchers are far from a sure thing... and even if they do come back... it may be a year or so.
We shot our load and have multiple titles to show for it. Let's blow it up and get young studs under team control... and augment with perhaps a free agent here or there.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 14, 2020 9:00:43 GMT -5
Years ago Ralph Kiner asked the Pirates for more money than they'd offered him for the coming season. Pittsburgh's response: We finished in last place with you. We can do so without you. What's done is done. Payroll issues, trades, etc. No sense debating past decisions that have led us to today's situation. In my view, we need to be sellers, open to any and all trades. Take a page from Belichick and trade players a year before they decline. Boston's lineup has shown it won't win anything as presently constructed. Injured pitchers are far from a sure thing... and even if they do come back... it may be a year or so. We shot our load and have multiple titles to show for it. Let's blow it up and get young studs under team control... and augment with perhaps a free agent here or there. I agree with you on the rebuild part, but gotta disagree on having sold out future for multiple titles, pretty sure we only got 2018 from the most recent prospect purge.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2020 9:20:47 GMT -5
FWIW, I would trade Vazquez if the Sox either get a highly rated catching prospect in return or are able to swing that Padres wish/trade that nets Campusano (which would be a separate deal from a Vazquez trade given the Padres don't need Vazquez as they have Mejia).
It's not extremely likely that the next time the Sox are really good that Vazquez would be the catcher, but the Sox obviously shouldn't give him away. It's gotta be for somebody who makes the 2024 Red Sox really good.
We don't even know if Devers is on that team or if Bogaerts opts out after 2022. Like I said, I do anticipate the real possibility of no baseball in 2022 and a late start in 2023 which is why I'm looking at 2024 as the target year, which gives them a chance to really grow the system by then.
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Post by jdb on Aug 14, 2020 10:41:45 GMT -5
I think SD does need a C though since Meija doesn’t look like he will make it. If you could send Vazquez and take Myers and Hedges off the books it could be a trade that gets 3-4 top prospect or young guys. I saw on The Athletic Weathers got to spring training and is sitting 95-97 instead of low 90s which raises his ceiling to go with already high floor. If you could get him as a second piece I’d be thrilled. I also don’t see Vazquez matching his 2019 juiced ball numbers. Here’s the article about Weathers and a few other SD guys. www.mlb.com/news/padres-prospects-who-could-impact-big-league-club
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 14, 2020 12:15:17 GMT -5
This is mainly for fun.
Vazquez and Moreland for Meija, Quantrill and Morejon.
Gives you a young major league catcher and two young starters for the rotation.
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Post by jdb on Aug 14, 2020 15:14:45 GMT -5
This is mainly for fun. Vazquez and Moreland for Meija, Quantrill and Morejon. Gives you a young major league catcher and two young starters for the rotation. I wouldn’t hate it. Would prefer weathers in place of Morejon and don’t think they have any use for Moreland and extra payroll. I would imagine the lost revenue could add to the urgency to unload Meyers and I think we will have a little wiggle room to add a bad contract and buy some prospects. We could give Mejia on the job training for sure.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 14, 2020 16:03:19 GMT -5
Weather's was a high first round pick and if his velocity spiked then they likely don't want to trade him right?
That's why I went with the buy low guys, players I think they are more willing to trade. Guys that also ready right now.
My thoughts with Moreland was to DH and backup first. I don't buy Cronesworth's fast start and we'd pay his salary. I expect we'd pay most of anyone we trades salary to get a better return. Felt you needed a little more to get all three, insert Workman if you have too.
Adding Myers could do it, that just get's crazy complicated. Yet I'm not against a huge deal, they have a crazy deep farm system and tons of former top guys with no room to play them.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 14, 2020 17:32:36 GMT -5
If Vazquez goes to SD, I want Campusano back. I'm out on Mejia.
How about Vazquez and Workman for Myers, Hedges, Campusano, one of the however many arms (Weathers/Quantrill/Lucchesi, whatever), Head, Cronenworth? Too much? Kind of half-assed that one.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 14, 2020 17:50:06 GMT -5
FWIW, I would trade Vazquez if the Sox either get a highly rated catching prospect in return or are able to swing that Padres wish/trade that nets Campusano (which would be a separate deal from a Vazquez trade given the Padres don't need Vazquez as they have Mejia). It's not extremely likely that the next time the Sox are really good that Vazquez would be the catcher, but the Sox obviously shouldn't give him away. It's gotta be for somebody who makes the 2024 Red Sox really good. We don't even know if Devers is on that team or if Bogaerts opts out after 2022. Like I said, I do anticipate the real possibility of no baseball in 2022 and a late start in 2023 which is why I'm looking at 2024 as the target year, which gives them a chance to really grow the system by then. The underlined team in bold is my primary target. And the catcher is among my top two primary targets. Along with a high-ceiling prospect pitcher. Assume we play baseball in 2022 and you want a high ceiling prospect pitcher and the catcher, Campusano. How do you get them? Suppose the Red Sox traded Devers to the Padres for Patino, Campusano and Morejon? The Sox would have to give up a bit more, right? What would they have to give up to get these 3? Now think of this- starting in 2022 - you'd already have some prospects playing and from 2022 through 2024 you'd probably continually have quality prospects being called up. But as of right now, only Groome has a ceiling of a 1/2 starter and he is an enormous question. I realize pitchers can evolve into 1 or 2 just like 5th rd pick Mookie evovled into a super player. But think of how the team would look - with their prospects if they made this trade and then on a separate move trade Vaz with maybe an additional player and you can get another top prospect. The Sox would be rebuilt. OFC they have to hit on the trades etc. The proposed trade of Devers I made isn't because Devers isn't playing well. It's primarily to land some pitchers and have a catcher that can grow with them.
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Post by agastonguay13 on Aug 14, 2020 21:11:42 GMT -5
In 2020? Plawecki, Lucroy, Jett Bandy? Doug Mirabelli? Scott Hatteberg? Jason Varitek is already in camp, just get him a folding chair to set up back there. Pitching would probably improve.
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