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Post by ortiz34 on Oct 13, 2020 15:17:56 GMT -5
Just to add more fuel to the fire... Is the idea that Duran is playing with Caguas so that Caguas manager Alex Cora can get a much better look at his so he can evaluate him as manager of the 2021 Red Sox? Is that the stream of thought? I thought he was GM/Advisor, but sure.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 13, 2020 20:48:40 GMT -5
Alex Cora isn't the manager in Caguas. He used to be the GM.
But the relationship now is that Ramon Vazquez is the manager there and the GM is some relative of Cora's (a cousin I think?).
I wouldn't read into this having anything to do with Cora. We actually already know Cora loves Duran - he requested him repeatedly during spring training 2019 as one of the minor league guys who'd go up.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 14, 2020 4:02:32 GMT -5
I read the article and I'm confused here. How does retaining the staff except for Narron and Bjournson indicate that Cora is likely coming back? Didn't Bjournson come with Cora to Boston? They were both with Houston the year prior. I think he's one of Cora's guys. While the Tigers could certainly be a good fit - they could have the pieces to blossom sooner or later - I do believe that Mize and some others could blossom and turn that team around, the White Sox are already there and haven't scratched the surface of what they're capable of. Cora were put a great fit with the White Sox, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him with the White Sox. I'd have to think he'd love that job. I just hope Bloom wants him to come back, because if he does, then I think Cora would, because I do think his heart is in Boston, but...the ball is in Bloom's court come 10/31. He better hurry though if he wants him back, because if he doesn't, I could easily see the ChiSox swooping in (or whoever else) and quickly hiring Cora. Bloom can't drag out the process if he really wants Cora back. I suspect we will see a process and Cora going elsewhere and it'll be because Bloom really wanted to go with his own guy and start totally fresh. I think the idea is that they wouldn't have invited that many coaches to return on a coaching staff that Cora had helped put together if they were planning to hire someone new, and that of the two coaches let go, one was the only one Cora had nothing to do with. But that's a fair point on Bjornson though, and my guess is that this has to do more with dates on contracts than Cora ghost-running things behind the scenes, or this being set up as a soft landing spot for Cora. The bench coach position, which is probably the one that's going to matter most to the new manager, is of course, now open. They can't communicate with Cora while he's suspended, correct? What do you think he makes of this news?
I've never heard of a team firing the manager and then announcing that nearly all of the coaches have been invited back. And I can't see a compelling reason to do this now, other than to let Cora know what's cooking.
Vazquez's current job is to boil down all the analytics and scouting reports for the manager. It's telling that this is now a uniformed coach position, when it was originally handled by the Asst. to the GM, Jed Hoyer from 2003 or 2004 to 2005, and then Zack Scott from 2006 to at least 2009 (where my knowledge ends). It's at least as important as bench coach, so my guess is that Vazquez keeps his unnamed position and Roenicke returns as bench coach, as he has indicated he would if Cora returns as manager.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 17, 2020 23:39:53 GMT -5
Hmmm Replying to his 2017 cryptic tweet (which we later found out was when he agreed to a contract with Sox.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 18, 2020 6:50:21 GMT -5
Hmmm Replying to his 2017 cryptic tweet (which we later found out was when he agreed to a contract with Sox.
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Post by iakovos11 on Oct 18, 2020 8:29:21 GMT -5
It's his birthday today (or yesterday?)
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 18, 2020 16:34:16 GMT -5
It's his birthday today (or yesterday?) But why reply to a 3 year old tweet that we later learned was in reference to him getting his first manager job? But seriously. It’s been almost a month and we have heard of only one candidate tied to the manager opening (Cora). There have been no other external names or even interviews since we fired Roenicke. Seems odd that if they were not going to hire Cora we would have at least heard about other candidates by now.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Oct 18, 2020 17:44:36 GMT -5
Fenway has been leak proof lately. Bloom search was stealth as well. I assume we will hear of interview shortly though.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 18, 2020 19:03:08 GMT -5
It's prior to the World Series, there are 3 manager positions and 2 GM positions available right now. There are no interviews being leaked in any of the five cities. Coincidence ? I think not.
It's also not coincidental that either Cora or Hinge have been thought of as manager candidates in all three cities.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Oct 19, 2020 3:20:32 GMT -5
Personal opinion but Bloom is shoehorned into Cora.
It's not just the Owners and (most of the) Fans that want Cora back. It's also the Players who hold some of the biggest cards in the room sort of speak.
Players like Devers took a step back last year with his defense (led the league in 2020 with errors). Xander talked glowingly about wanting a guy like Cora all year. JDM took a step back without Cora. So did Benintendi.
I don't see how it can be anyone else but Cora. This team needs to correct some of the core players on this team. They performed best under Cora in one year in 2018. I think they roll with that kind of thinking.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 19, 2020 7:15:29 GMT -5
I mostly agree. I don't necessarily think Bloom has to bring back Cora, but I think if he doesn't then there's immense pressure to hit another absolute home run with the hire for the reasons you state.
There will certainly be some blowback to re-hiring Cora, but it won't be from within and it's otherwise the safest bet for him. Not that he's been afraid to make moves that come with blowback either.
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Post by ortiz34 on Oct 19, 2020 11:17:42 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 19, 2020 11:53:30 GMT -5
interesting poll: So far 50% yes to both
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Post by patford on Oct 19, 2020 14:06:29 GMT -5
The : X2 is a pretty strong hint. It could easily be read as him being named Sox manager for the second time. Also Cora was named manager on 10/22/2017 which was four days after his "Blessed" tweet on 10/18/2017.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 19, 2020 14:21:22 GMT -5
If they are going to re-hire Cora, why not just have let him serve his suspension, let Reonicke do his interim thing and bring him back in 2021.
They part ways, just to bring him and the whole staff back. I don't really buy it, and if it is true, seems totally unnecessary. The fans never really wanted to see him go.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 19, 2020 15:56:42 GMT -5
If they are going to re-hire Cora, why not just have let him serve his suspension, let Reonicke do his interim thing and bring him back in 2021. They part ways, just to bring him and the whole staff back. I don't really buy it, and if it is true, seems totally unnecessary. The fans never really wanted to see him go. Because remember, he didn't get suspended until April when they finished the Red Sox investigation. They didn't want to be scrambling to find a manager in April. They had to be proactive in January when they parted ways. Roenicke had the interim tag all year, right? They basically did just what you're saying - it's like they conditionally let him go pending the results of the second investigation when it was clear he was likely gone for at least 2020.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 19, 2020 16:09:04 GMT -5
If they are going to re-hire Cora, why not just have let him serve his suspension, let Reonicke do his interim thing and bring him back in 2021. They part ways, just to bring him and the whole staff back. I don't really buy it, and if it is true, seems totally unnecessary. The fans never really wanted to see him go. Because remember, he didn't get suspended until April when they finished the Red Sox investigation. They didn't want to be scrambling to find a manager in April. They had to be proactive in January when they parted ways. Roenicke had the interim tag all year, right? They basically did just what you're saying - it's like they conditionally let him go pending the results of the second investigation when it was clear he was likely gone for at least 2020. The Red Sox did remove the interim tag shortly after giving him the job: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29083927/sources-red-sox-removing-interim-tag-manager-ron-roenicke-title
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 19, 2020 16:14:30 GMT -5
OK I stand corrected. That does sound right. Point stands though.
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Post by jclmontana on Oct 19, 2020 18:10:36 GMT -5
If LA doesn’t win the WS this year, I would expect another manager opening, one that would obviously be very attractive. Not saying it would be fair or justified, just saying the axe would fall.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 19, 2020 18:13:47 GMT -5
If they are going to re-hire Cora, why not just have let him serve his suspension, let Reonicke do his interim thing and bring him back in 2021. They part ways, just to bring him and the whole staff back. I don't really buy it, and if it is true, seems totally unnecessary. The fans never really wanted to see him go. Because remember, he didn't get suspended until April when they finished the Red Sox investigation. They didn't want to be scrambling to find a manager in April. They had to be proactive in January when they parted ways. Roenicke had the interim tag all year, right? They basically did just what you're saying - it's like they conditionally let him go pending the results of the second investigation when it was clear he was likely gone for at least 2020. that makes sense, thanks.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 20, 2020 10:54:58 GMT -5
This is not great timing for Cora or Hinge:
From the full text link:
“The commissioner’s report says, other than Cora, this was ‘player-driven and executed.’” . . . Looks dirty to me...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 20, 2020 11:39:24 GMT -5
He's referring to the report that came out in January. That's not news. That's what we've been discussing above, in part referring to the Joe Kelly comments that called that finding bogus and the players looking for a scapegoat.
(Ray, fyi, not sure if you have a recurring autocorrect thing going on but it's "Hinch" not "Hinge")
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 20, 2020 11:51:13 GMT -5
Autobrain thing, I know but keep forgetting.
It making the news is bad timing because it reminds everyone that he's dirty. Prior to that, the assumptions have been that it was known to upper management. If you were a GM, would you trust Cora to share things with you ?
ADD: Also in the main article, it mentions cheating by the Red Sox & Yankees. January should be interesting.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 20, 2020 11:55:45 GMT -5
Autobrain thing, I know but keep forgetting. It making the news is bad timing because it reminds everyone that he's dirty. Prior to that, the assumptions have been that it was known to upper management. If you were a GM, would you trust Cora to share things with you ? Playing devil's advocate here, would you expect him to report this to Luhnow? "Hey Jeff, just wanted to let you know about this cool thing we're doing." Also, Hinch knew too. Wouldn't that be more on him than Cora? I'm not sure there's really a direct line of communication from the bench coach to the GM. How many conversations do we think Jerry Narron had with Chaim Bloom this year? As for the "making news" thing, I don't agree that it matters. It's not like everyone forgot why he's been suspended for a year.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 20, 2020 12:18:01 GMT -5
Yes I would at least for an off the record OK but more importantly, I wouldn't expect him to do it in the first place. If he didn't communicate it, it's because he thought the answer would be no. In the article it also mentions that he had a lot of interaction with the coaches. If you are the GM of a machine shop, do you only talk to the production manager or do you also meet with the department heads ?
And the implication is that it was Cora generated, not Hinch generated. The Red Sox do not need this look.
Playing the devil's advocate back, do you think having to fire a popular manager shortly after taking the job is one of Bloom's cherished memories ?
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