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Red Sox Sign Hunter Renfroe
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Post by kman22 on Dec 14, 2020 14:37:31 GMT -5
Also no relation to Hunter Renfrew of the Las Vegas Raiders.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 14, 2020 14:54:21 GMT -5
Love this signing. Would be decent value if he had 6+ years of service time. Because he only has 3, he more or less comes with two team option years. If the Sox win on this signing, they have a chance to win big. Most of the moves last offseason fit this same pattern.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 14, 2020 15:06:33 GMT -5
Yeah, it's hard not to like this player at this price. He can play left or right, he kills left-handed pitching, and he has a track-record as a power hitter. That gives the team a lot of options for a relatively small investment. It's one that could really shine if he delivers given the additional control he comes with.
One more plus for Bloom. He moves carefully and with a real understanding of value propositions it seems. This is not Dombrowski, that much is clear.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 14, 2020 15:07:21 GMT -5
Yeah it's a nice move. Renfroe was probably the perfect 4th outfield candidate. I think this ends the Puig speculation all together.
I do think this does put the chances that JBJ comes back at a really lower percentage. I don't see him coming coming back now.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 14, 2020 15:09:33 GMT -5
Renfroe playing mostly against LHP could do a LOT of damage at Fenway. He's got a pretty heavy career split and loves to pull the ball. Even without "fixing" him he's useful in a platoon role. He hit .146 against LHP last year and .239 the year before - and you have to go back to 2017 to find a sizable BA split between lefties and righting. There's more power against lefties, but not enough to makeup for the shortcomings. He's not the 'lefty masher' some are insinuating, but based on the feedback from the Red Sox they think he can be more than a platoon bat - which would require 'fixing' him. The power potential is huge, but there's risk with this signing. Hopefully the Red Sox are buying low. (keep in mind - the Rays cut him to avoid paying ~3.5m in arbitration)
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 14, 2020 15:12:04 GMT -5
Yeah it's a nice move. Renfroe was probably the perfect 4th outfield candidate. I think this ends the Puig speculation all together. I do think this does put the chances that JBJ comes back at a really lower percentage. I don't see him coming coming back now. I'm not so sure about that. He's right-handed and the others - including Bradley - are left-handed. Verdugo has little to no splits so Renfroe could spell both corners with Verdugo moving to center on the occasions when Bradley is getting a rest, if they decide to bring him back. It might actually make a reunion even more enticing.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 14, 2020 15:16:11 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that. He's right-handed and the others - including Bradley - are left-handed. Verdugo has little to no splits so Renfroe could spell both corners with Verdugo moving to center on the occasions when Bradley is getting a rest, if they decide to bring him back. It might actually make a reunion even more enticing. The Sox have never treated JBJ like a platoon since he's been here. At most he's sat out once a week against a LHP. I think this actually gives the Sox some leeway into signing another depth outfielder and cheaping out at the position. Duran is a half a year away.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 14, 2020 15:18:45 GMT -5
Renfroe playing mostly against LHP could do a LOT of damage at Fenway. He's got a pretty heavy career split and loves to pull the ball. Even without "fixing" him he's useful in a platoon role. He hit .146 against LHP last year and .239 the year before - and you have to go back to 2017 to find a sizable BA split between lefties and righting. There's more power against lefties, but not enough to makeup for the shortcomings. He's not the 'lefty masher' some are insinuating, but based on the feedback from the Red Sox they think he can be more than a platoon bat - which would require 'fixing' him. The power potential is huge, but there's risk with this signing. Hopefully the Red Sox are buying low. (keep in mind - the Rays cut him to avoid paying ~3.5m in arbitration) Not sure you'd be focusing on the batting average of a guy who hit .239/.331/.575 with 11 homers (and just 31 K, less than 25%) in 133 plate appearances. He was obviously awful this year, but there's a lot of bounceback possible, he has three years of team control, and he plays defense much better than most guys with this sort of profile.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 14, 2020 15:28:55 GMT -5
He hit .146 against LHP last year and .239 the year before - and you have to go back to 2017 to find a sizable BA split between lefties and righting. There's more power against lefties, but not enough to makeup for the shortcomings. He's not the 'lefty masher' some are insinuating, but based on the feedback from the Red Sox they think he can be more than a platoon bat - which would require 'fixing' him. The power potential is huge, but there's risk with this signing. Hopefully the Red Sox are buying low. (keep in mind - the Rays cut him to avoid paying ~3.5m in arbitration) Not sure you'd be focusing on the batting average of a guy who hit .239/.331/.575 with 11 homers (and just 31 K, less than 25%) in 133 plate appearances. He was obviously awful this year, but there's a lot of bounceback possible, he has three years of team control, and he plays defense much better than most guys with this sort of profile. If those 2 can hit .250 overall, we should get the champagne on ice! Hope it happens. I'll go make myself some Kool-Aid now. But seriously, you make a good point with the extra 2 arb years. That does add a fair bit more upside to this signing.
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Post by p23w on Dec 14, 2020 15:35:12 GMT -5
My favorite aspect of this signing is his name.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 14, 2020 16:28:53 GMT -5
Career .258/.339/.573 vs. LHP Plus, here's his 2019-20 spray chart overlaid on Fenway
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 14, 2020 16:50:27 GMT -5
Career .258/.339/.573 vs. LHP Plus, here's his 2019-20 spray chart overlaid on Fenway View AttachmentIf he can come close to that slash line vs lefties this will be a slam dunk of a signing. Looking at the spray chart there's some potential he could maybe even do a little better in fenway.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 14, 2020 16:53:20 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that. He's right-handed and the others - including Bradley - are left-handed. Verdugo has little to no splits so Renfroe could spell both corners with Verdugo moving to center on the occasions when Bradley is getting a rest, if they decide to bring him back. It might actually make a reunion even more enticing. The Sox have never treated JBJ like a platoon since he's been here. At most he's sat out once a week against a LHP. I think this actually gives the Sox some leeway into signing another depth outfielder and cheaping out at the position. Duran is a half a year away. I did not mean that it would be a platoon for Bradley, just a way to get him some time off once in a while - that's if he's even coming back.
Let's do the arithmetic. If there is a 162 game season, and it's looking more promising that it will happen, there are plenty of at-bats for four outfielders. Renfroe can also work as a DH to take advantage of the .200 point increase in OPS in his career against left-handers. Again, that may not be what they are planning, it's just one set of options.
Here are Renfroe's career splits. He walks more and Ks less, with a higher slugging pct also: I | Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | TB |
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| vs RHP | 388 | 1094 | 1014 | 131 | 219 | 51 | 1 | 61 | 152 | 65 | 341 | .216 | .268 | .449 | .717 | 455 |
| vs LHP | 230 | 495 | 431 | 63 | 111 | 24 | 2 | 36 | 74 | 53 | 104 | .258 | .339 | .573 | .912 | 247 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 12/14/2020.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 14, 2020 17:09:09 GMT -5
Of note Hunter was a Red Sox 2010 draftee,though in the 31st round. He wisely rejected the Sox offer to attend college. In 2013 the Padres made him the 13th overall pick in Round 1.
I remember him as a highly rated prospect in his early professional years.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 14, 2020 17:49:58 GMT -5
The Sox have never treated JBJ like a platoon since he's been here. At most he's sat out once a week against a LHP. I think this actually gives the Sox some leeway into signing another depth outfielder and cheaping out at the position. Duran is a half a year away. I did not mean that it would be a platoon for Bradley, just a way to get him some time off once in a while - that's if he's even coming back. Let's do the arithmetic. If there is a 162 game season, and it's looking more promising that it will happen, there are plenty of at-bats for four outfielders. Renfroe can also work as a DH to take advantage of the .200 point increase in OPS in his career against left-handers. Again, that may not be what they are planning, it's just one set of options. Here are Renfroe's career splits. He walks more and Ks less, with a higher slugging pct also: I | Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | TB |
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| vs RHP | 388 | 1094 | 1014 | 131 | 219 | 51 | 1 | 61 | 152 | 65 | 341 | .216 | .268 | .449 | .717 | 455 |
| vs LHP | 230 | 495 | 431 | 63 | 111 | 24 | 2 | 36 | 74 | 53 | 104 | .258 | .339 | .573 | .912 | 247 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 12/14/2020. Those enticing splits lean heavily on 2017 numbers. Here are the splits 2018-2020: vs LHP: .234/.318/.526 vs RHP: .216/.275/.463 Career .258/.339/.573 vs. LHP Plus, here's his 2019-20 spray chart overlaid on Fenway View AttachmentWhat that tells me - a lot of HRs and Flyballs are going to turn into doubles. This could raise his BA but may also lower his ISO. Anyone have a good vertical spray chart resource to verify?
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Post by unitspin on Dec 14, 2020 18:31:32 GMT -5
All I see is bases loaded no outs and then this part of the order 7- Bobby Dalbec Strike out swinging 8- Hunter Renfro Strike out Swinging 9- Michael Chavis Strike out looking If it was jbj he would hit into a double play.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 14, 2020 18:50:52 GMT -5
I don't see Renfroe getting any time at DH. He's a plus defender and would be wasted at that spot. I see Benintendi getting time at DH with Renfroe in RF and Verdugo in LF, if/when they find someone else to play CF.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 14, 2020 19:49:10 GMT -5
Career .258/.339/.573 vs. LHP Plus, here's his 2019-20 spray chart overlaid on Fenway View AttachmentWhat that tells me - a lot of HRs and Flyballs are going to turn into doubles. This could raise his BA but may also lower his ISO. Anyone have a good vertical spray chart resource to verify? I see zero evidence for that on that chart. Can you explain what you mean? There are a lot of fly outs into territory that is beyond the Green Monster. I've seen no video evidence that he hits Jim-Rich type line drives.
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Post by manfred on Dec 14, 2020 20:56:13 GMT -5
I mean... if he is a fourth outfielder, fine. But if this is a move that is projecting an outfield of Beni - Verdugo - Renfroe/platoon player x it is not something I’m excited about. That is not a good outfield — it is worse defensively by a lot than this year, and it is middling offensively. Yeah Renfroe has had a few good power years. He’s also had some bad years. Does this move make them any better when combined with JBJ walking? Don’t say saved money! They just did the money reset... we shouldn’t still be in cheapout mode.
So... meh.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 14, 2020 21:07:45 GMT -5
I mean... if he is a fourth outfielder, fine. But if this is a move that is projecting an outfield of Beni - Verdugo - Renfroe/platoon player x it is not something I’m excited about. That is not a good outfield — it is worse defensively by a lot than this year, and it is middling offensively. Yeah Renfroe has had a few good power years. He’s also had some bad years. Does this move make them any better when combined with JBJ walking? Don’t say saved money! They just did the money reset... we shouldn’t still be in cheapout mode. So... meh. View it for what it is, a 4th outfielder.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 15, 2020 2:41:57 GMT -5
Yeah it's a nice move. Renfroe was probably the perfect 4th outfield candidate. I think this ends the Puig speculation all together. I do think this does put the chances that JBJ comes back at a really lower percentage. I don't see him coming coming back now. I'm not so sure about that. He's right-handed and the others - including Bradley - are left-handed. Verdugo has little to no splits so Renfroe could spell both corners with Verdugo moving to center on the occasions when Bradley is getting a rest, if they decide to bring him back. It might actually make a reunion even more enticing. I don't see them paying Renfroe 3m to play PT as a FA in this climate. What could be going on is the scare over how far Benintendi has fallen the last 2 seasons as some insurance there. Wouldn't shock me to see DeShields/Pillar brought in also if price on them tumbles to what Renfroe got, or lower all, except Verdugo used in a rotation.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 15, 2020 4:31:51 GMT -5
I mean... if he is a fourth outfielder, fine. But if this is a move that is projecting an outfield of Beni - Verdugo - Renfroe/platoon player x it is not something I’m excited about. That is not a good outfield — it is worse defensively by a lot than this year, and it is middling offensively. Yeah Renfroe has had a few good power years. He’s also had some bad years. Does this move make them any better when combined with JBJ walking? Don’t say saved money! They just did the money reset... we shouldn’t still be in cheapout mode. So... meh. I don't see them paying Renfroe 3m to play PT as a FA in this climate. What could be going on is the scare over how far Benintendi has fallen the last 2 seasons as some insurance there. Wouldn't shock me to see DeShields/Pillar brought in also if price on them tumbles to what Renfroe got, or lower all, except Verdugo used in a rotation. Bloom: 'There's still a lot of offseason left. We don't know exactly how our outfield shapes up.' 'He has the potential to be more than a platoon player.' I'm puzzled. Are people unable to read between the lines, even when it seems completely obvious? Are they unwilling to do so, out of some unfortunate, perverse need to be as pessimistic as possible? Or have they simply forgotten Bloom's past statements? The Red Sox' official position is that they will try to, and hope to, re-sign Jackie Bradley, Jr..
Hence: "We don't know exactly how our outfield shapes up." = "We don't know for certain that we can re-sign JBJ." Quite possibly, also, "if we can't, we don't know for certain whether we can execute our plan B if we fail to re-sign him."
Hence: "'He has the potential to be more than a platoon player." = "One of the reasons we signed him is that, in the absence of JBJ, a plan B or C is to have Verdugo in CF and Renfroe as the regular in RF."
I'm sorry, but this is not open to debate. It couldn't be more plain.
I think plan B, if it exists, is a theoretical plan where the Springer and JBJ signings free up an OF or two in trade. The Mets would likely move Brandon Nimmo and the Jays Randal Grichuck if they signed a new CF.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 15, 2020 4:45:28 GMT -5
Think it's open to debate as much as anything else baseball related is on this site. Some of which goes on a dozen pages long rehashing the same exact points in extremely long posts and meticulous detail over the same items.
I also, which have posted before don't believe Bloom is going to go out and pay JBJ 8-10m+ AAV over 3y(or plus y) knowing his output offensively in the shortened season almost assuredly will disappear and what everyone saw the previous cpl of years will probably return, making it a bad deal which he isn't known for.
Show me a GM who doesn't give lip service to resigning his own players in a press conference, or looking to improve his club. Not trying to be snippy here. Just believe Bloom is going to be using "his" FA dollars.. The few spent towards pitching and not non critical areas.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 15, 2020 5:42:25 GMT -5
I mean... if he is a fourth outfielder, fine. But if this is a move that is projecting an outfield of Beni - Verdugo - Renfroe/platoon player x it is not something I’m excited about. That is not a good outfield — it is worse defensively by a lot than this year, and it is middling offensively. Yeah Renfroe has had a few good power years. He’s also had some bad years. Does this move make them any better when combined with JBJ walking? Don’t say saved money! They just did the money reset... we shouldn’t still be in cheapout mode. So... meh. The more I look at this move the more I like it. The cost, the years of control, the defense in right and the power swing to left could all add up to a very good move. Just looking at his spray chart and his 2017-2019 seasons leads me to see 30+ homers, more doubles and an improved OBP based on the short porch. As Bloom said, he can be more than a platoon player and for only 3 to 3.7 million that is a great move. We shall see.
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Post by orion09 on Dec 15, 2020 6:56:16 GMT -5
Career .258/.339/.573 vs. LHP Plus, here's his 2019-20 spray chart overlaid on Fenway View AttachmentJust for the fun of it, I ran some Statcast numbers yesterday, looking at launch angle and exit velo on batted balls to left field, and my sense is Renfroe probably just about breaks even at Fenway. He gains some HR and base hits due to the monster, but also loses some HR (balls off the wall) and base hits (because the LF is playing shallower). I think my very rough estimate was that, in a 162 game season, he would break even on base hits and gain 2 HR. Still, that spray chart looks pretty, and you have to think it's a good sign that he's a dead pull RHB with a high launch angle.
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