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Red Sox sign Marwin Gonzalez
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Feb 12, 2021 13:18:24 GMT -5
Duran Gettys Rosario Wilson Jimenez
plenty of guys showing up in the next 4 to 18 months with outfield ability.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 12, 2021 14:11:46 GMT -5
CB is exploiting the new inefficiency in BB this winter: low OBP. It's underrated. Marwin Gonzalez posted a .377 in his cheaty, outlier 2017 season and hasn't had another year above .327. For his career, he's at a robust .317. He was .286 in a not so-SSS of 199 PAs last year. We could see some quick innings with him, Renfroe, Franchy and KKH getting playing time. But it's a one-year, low-money deal, so no harm. I guess. I expect those players were brought in because of their platoon skills. I'm not the GM so I could be wrong. But from that perspective, the blanket statement looks like it has holes in it. Renfroe (career): Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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vs LHP | 230 | 495 | 431 | 63 | 111 | 24 | 2 | 36 | 74 | 5 | 1 | 53 | 104 | .258 | .339 | .573 | .912 | .252 | 135 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 2/12/2021. Hernandez (career): Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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vs LHP | 412 | 893 | 784 | 112 | 206 | 45 | 5 | 37 | 100 | 5 | 2 | 98 | 162 | .263 | .345 | .474 | .820 | .286 | 122 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 2/12/2021.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 14:20:26 GMT -5
CB is exploiting the new inefficiency in BB this winter: low OBP. It's underrated. Marwin Gonzalez posted a .377 in his cheaty, outlier 2017 season and hasn't had another year above .327. For his career, he's at a robust .317. He was .286 in a not so-SSS of 199 PAs last year. We could see some quick innings with him, Renfroe, Franchy and KKH getting playing time. But it's a one-year, low-money deal, so no harm. I guess. I expect those players were brought in because of their platoon skills. I'm not the GM so I could be wrong. But from that perspective, the blanket statement looks like it has holes in it. Renfroe (career): Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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vs LHP | 230 | 495 | 431 | 63 | 111 | 24 | 2 | 36 | 74 | 5 | 1 | 53 | 104 | .258 | .339 | .573 | .912 | .252 | 135 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 2/12/2021. Hernandez (career): Split | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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vs LHP | 412 | 893 | 784 | 112 | 206 | 45 | 5 | 37 | 100 | 5 | 2 | 98 | 162 | .263 | .345 | .474 | .820 | .286 | 122 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original TableGenerated 2/12/2021. I agree, but it kinda makes me wonder again about trading Beni. If we’re in the platoon era, why not put him with Renfroe, with his career .283/.361/.459 against righties? His resign price would also dip if he was reduced to platoon, but it still keeps him in case he still reaches his peak.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 14:45:30 GMT -5
You need to go read up on advanced stats. Offensive bwar is adjusted per position. Gonzalez would put up a 2 oWAR in CF in from 2014-2019. Hence the his offense is easy to replace. Verdugo would have a higher oWAR in CF, Bradley's oWAR would go down in RF or LF. I figured, and yet it is also meant to be a measure you can use across the board — or else it would be cfoWAR, rfoWAR. Anyway, I’m not literally saying JBJ was a better offensive player in CF. Yeah if you moved Verdugo there, he’d be better. But then you need a RF! The point is, as center fielders go, JBJ is actually a good offensive one. Not Springer, not Verdugo, but very good. And better defensively. No offensive bwar is not meant to be used to compare hitters and tell you how good they are. It's a value to the team per position. Use OPS+ or wRC if you want to compare hitters and how good they are unless they play the same position. OPS+ is adjusted for park effect so you can compare all hitters and 100 is average. So last year Bradley was 118, 18% above average. Verdugo was 126 or 26% above average. These numbers aren't adjusted for position, it's just measuring their hitting. Yet Bradley was 89, 92 and 90 from 2017-2019, shifts have killed him since his peak years. Last year there's no difference in his shift numbers, so I feel very confident in saying it was just a hot streak in a limited amount of games. So if you want to project numbers for 2021 Bradley is about 10% below an average hitter, Verdugo about 20% above. That's a massive difference. What does that mean? Go look at Springer 2017 season, Verdugo at CF would post around 4 offensive war in a full season. It's all based off of averages at the position. CF has a lower offensive average. It's why you think Bradley's D war is low, because you don't realize the average for defense at CF is very high. The combo is different for every position. First Base and DH have the highest bar for offense. SS, CF and catcher have the lower bars on average yet this can change per season. Yet SS, Catcher and CF also have very high defensive bars, first base has a very low bar on average. I'm likely going to butcher this because getting my point across in a clear way isn't my strength. Yet think of advanced stats in this basic way, it's all about runs scored and runs allowed. You want to score as many runs while limiting runs allowed. The bigger your run differential is, the better your team should be. Think the movie money ball, they do a good job showing you how teams build a roster. He didn't look at losing Damon and Giambi based on average or HRs, it was runs. It's why Baseball Reference measure defense as defensive runs saved. So the question Bloom is really asking is, Does Verdugo in CF help the team or hurt the team? Is better offense there and likely less D better? Verdugo will get a big boost to his offensive bwar, yet his defensive bwar will go down. So he's brought in Hernandez and Gonzalez to help replace some of the D you lost with no Bradley. It's why to fully understand advanced stats you have to trust some defensive rating to show value to a team and player. To get offensive production he's going to platoon guys. I was bummed about Benintendi, yet he gets Cordero and now Gonzalez to replace him. He's really putting on a clinic of using advanced stats to build a team. Adding two guys in Hernandez and Gonzalez that I'd call super utility players because they can play so many positions. While allowing him to deepen the farm system. I wasn't very impressed with the way he built last year's team, it lacked depth in so many areas. I'm highly impressed by what he's done in the last year though. He clearly has a long-term plan and is doing a damn good job of giving us a very good chance this year while doing it.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 14:51:42 GMT -5
I figured, and yet it is also meant to be a measure you can use across the board — or else it would be cfoWAR, rfoWAR. Anyway, I’m not literally saying JBJ was a better offensive player in CF. Yeah if you moved Verdugo there, he’d be better. But then you need a RF! The point is, as center fielders go, JBJ is actually a good offensive one. Not Springer, not Verdugo, but very good. And better defensively. No offensive bwar is not meant to be used to compare hitters and tell you how good they are. It's a value to the team per position. Use OPS+ or wRC if you want to compare hitters and how good they are unless they play the same position. OPS+ is adjusted for park effect so you can compare all hitters and 100 is average. So last year Bradley was 118, 18% above average. Verdugo was 126 or 26% above average. These numbers aren't adjusted for position, it's just measuring their hitting. Yet Bradley was 89, 92 and 90 from 2017-2019, shifts have killed him since his peak years. Last year there's no difference in his shift numbers, so I feel very confident in saying it was just a hot streak in a limited amount of games. So if you want to project numbers for 2021 Bradley is about 10% below an average hitter, Verdugo about 20% above. That's a massive difference. What does that mean? Go look at Springer 2017 season, Verdugo at CF would post around 4 offensive war in a full season. It's all based off of averages at the position. CF has a lower offensive average. It's why you think Bradley's D war is low, because you don't realize the average for defense at CF is very high. The combo is different for every position. First Base and DH have the highest bar for offense. SS, CF and catcher have the lower bars on average yet this can change per season. Yet SS, Catcher and CF also have very high defensive bars, first base has a very low bar on average. I'm likely going to butcher this because getting my point across in a clear way isn't my strength. Yet think of advanced stats in this basic way, it's all about runs scored and runs allowed. You want to score as many runs while limiting runs allowed. The bigger your run differential is, the better your team should be. Think the movie money ball, they do a good job showing you how teams build a roster. He didn't look at losing Damon and Giambi based on average or HRs, it was runs. It's why Baseball Reference measure defense as defensive runs saved. So the question Bloom is really asking is, Does Verdugo in CF help the team or hurt the team? Is better offense there and likely less D better? Verdugo will get a big boost to his offensive bwar, yet his defensive bwar will go down. So he's brought in Hernandez and Gonzalez to help replace some of the D you lost with no Bradley. It's why to fully understand advanced stats you have to trust some defensive rating to show value to a team and player. To get offensive production he's going to platoon guys. I was bummed about Benintendi, yet he gets Cordero and now Gonzalez to replace him. He's really putting on a clinic of using advanced stats to build a team. Adding two guys in Hernandez and Gonzalez that I'd call super utility players because they can play so many positions. While allowing him to deepen the farm system. I wasn't very impressed with the way he built last year's team, it lacked depth in so many areas. I'm highly impressed by what he's done in the last year though. He clearly has a long-term plan and is doing a damn good job of giving us a very good chance this year while doing it. Man, look at the context. Guy was crapping on JBJ, and I was saying he was actually a very good player. That was it. Otherwise, I don’t care.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2021 14:53:24 GMT -5
I agree, but it kinda makes me wonder again about trading Beni. If we’re in the platoon era, why not put him with Renfroe, with his career .283/.361/.459 against righties? His resign price would also dip if he was reduced to platoon, but it still keeps him in case he still reaches his peak. Long-answer short: because those extra four players are worth a lot more than the marginal downgrade from a part-time Benintendi to a part-time Cordero. It's pretty clear the Royals still like Benintendi as a starter, and you should always trade players who other teams value more than you do.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 14:57:17 GMT -5
I agree, but it kinda makes me wonder again about trading Beni. If we’re in the platoon era, why not put him with Renfroe, with his career .283/.361/.459 against righties? His resign price would also dip if he was reduced to platoon, but it still keeps him in case he still reaches his peak. Long-answer short: because those extra four players are worth a lot more than the marginal downgrade from a part-time Benintendi to a part-time Cordero. It's pretty clear the Royals still like Benintendi as a starter, and you should always trade players who other teams value more than you do. I accept that by and large, though I disagree with the move. The principle you espouse in the last sentence? Yes. The marginal downgrade part is really what it hinges on, as all trades do. Hard to nail down how much the Royals value Beni until every name is named.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2021 15:06:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't have particular thoughts on the trade overall yet. But strictly on the "why not just keep Benintendi in a platoon role" question, if the Red Sox viewed Benintendi as a part-time player going forward then even Winckowski and three lottery tickets would make sense.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 15:09:27 GMT -5
No offensive bwar is not meant to be used to compare hitters and tell you how good they are. It's a value to the team per position. Use OPS+ or wRC if you want to compare hitters and how good they are unless they play the same position. OPS+ is adjusted for park effect so you can compare all hitters and 100 is average. So last year Bradley was 118, 18% above average. Verdugo was 126 or 26% above average. These numbers aren't adjusted for position, it's just measuring their hitting. Yet Bradley was 89, 92 and 90 from 2017-2019, shifts have killed him since his peak years. Last year there's no difference in his shift numbers, so I feel very confident in saying it was just a hot streak in a limited amount of games. So if you want to project numbers for 2021 Bradley is about 10% below an average hitter, Verdugo about 20% above. That's a massive difference. What does that mean? Go look at Springer 2017 season, Verdugo at CF would post around 4 offensive war in a full season. It's all based off of averages at the position. CF has a lower offensive average. It's why you think Bradley's D war is low, because you don't realize the average for defense at CF is very high. The combo is different for every position. First Base and DH have the highest bar for offense. SS, CF and catcher have the lower bars on average yet this can change per season. Yet SS, Catcher and CF also have very high defensive bars, first base has a very low bar on average. I'm likely going to butcher this because getting my point across in a clear way isn't my strength. Yet think of advanced stats in this basic way, it's all about runs scored and runs allowed. You want to score as many runs while limiting runs allowed. The bigger your run differential is, the better your team should be. Think the movie money ball, they do a good job showing you how teams build a roster. He didn't look at losing Damon and Giambi based on average or HRs, it was runs. It's why Baseball Reference measure defense as defensive runs saved. So the question Bloom is really asking is, Does Verdugo in CF help the team or hurt the team? Is better offense there and likely less D better? Verdugo will get a big boost to his offensive bwar, yet his defensive bwar will go down. So he's brought in Hernandez and Gonzalez to help replace some of the D you lost with no Bradley. It's why to fully understand advanced stats you have to trust some defensive rating to show value to a team and player. To get offensive production he's going to platoon guys. I was bummed about Benintendi, yet he gets Cordero and now Gonzalez to replace him. He's really putting on a clinic of using advanced stats to build a team. Adding two guys in Hernandez and Gonzalez that I'd call super utility players because they can play so many positions. While allowing him to deepen the farm system. I wasn't very impressed with the way he built last year's team, it lacked depth in so many areas. I'm highly impressed by what he's done in the last year though. He clearly has a long-term plan and is doing a damn good job of giving us a very good chance this year while doing it. Man, look at the context. Guy was crapping on JBJ, and I was saying he was actually a very good player. That was it. Otherwise, I don’t care. No he wasn't, he nailed Bradley 100%. Bradley's bat is easy to replace, it's nothing special. That's what I tried explaining to you. I get it advanced stats can be overwhelming at first, yet this is what the actual teams are doing. This board is like a master level college class in advanced stats and team building. If you have questions fire away.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 15:26:36 GMT -5
Man, look at the context. Guy was crapping on JBJ, and I was saying he was actually a very good player. That was it. Otherwise, I don’t care. No he wasn't, he nailed Bradley 100%. Bradley's bat is easy to replace, it's nothing special. That's what I tried explaining to you. I get it advanced stats can be overwhelming at first, yet this is what the actual teams are doing. This board is like a master level college class in advanced stats and team building. If you have questions fire away. 🙄 These past two years have, indeed, been a master-class in outfield development. Chapeau. Add: we all hope that’s right, by the way. But if the Frankenstein outfield falters, I hope you remember your casual arrogance.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 15:52:59 GMT -5
No he wasn't, he nailed Bradley 100%. Bradley's bat is easy to replace, it's nothing special. That's what I tried explaining to you. I get it advanced stats can be overwhelming at first, yet this is what the actual teams are doing. This board is like a master level college class in advanced stats and team building. If you have questions fire away. 🙄 These past two years have, indeed, been a master-class in outfield development. Chapeau. Add: we all hope that’s right, by the way. But if the Frankenstein outfield falters, I hope you remember your casual arrogance. Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,029
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Post by cdj on Feb 12, 2021 16:11:17 GMT -5
🙄 These past two years have, indeed, been a master-class in outfield development. Chapeau. Add: we all hope that’s right, by the way. But if the Frankenstein outfield falters, I hope you remember your casual arrogance. Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved. The guys initial quote was literally “Jackie Bradley stinks”. He is factually incorrect. That is an objectively false statement. Manfred is just arguing against that. And he’s right.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 16:25:32 GMT -5
Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved. The guys initial quote was literally “Jackie Bradley stinks”. He is factually incorrect. That is an objectively false statement. Manfred is just arguing against that. And he’s right. He also said his glove was great, yet wanted to move on due to his bat and contract demands. Manfred's reply was to use offensive war to prove him wrong, when the original poster was using OPS+. I have zero issues arguing the stinks part, not trying to arguing about his bat not being good using a positional adjusted offensive stat.
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 16:26:48 GMT -5
🙄 These past two years have, indeed, been a master-class in outfield development. Chapeau. Add: we all hope that’s right, by the way. But if the Frankenstein outfield falters, I hope you remember your casual arrogance. Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved. If you want to talk samples, I’d say a 3-year sample of MG that includes 2017 is suspect. 2016: oWAR .08. 2018: oWAR 1.8. 2019: oWAR: .7. 2017: oWAR 4.5! Wow. What was going on in 2017? As I wrote elsewhere, he has a career 99 OPS+ that goes down 7-9 points if you remove 2017! Wow. What was going on that year? He has slugged over .414 once. That was .530 in... 2017. Weird. What WAS going on that year? His second highest OBP is .327. Career of .317. But at his peak, he reached .377. Like he was seeing what was coning that year! When was that? Oh. 2017. Must’ve been La Nina?
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 16:28:17 GMT -5
The guys initial quote was literally “Jackie Bradley stinks”. He is factually incorrect. That is an objectively false statement. Manfred is just arguing against that. And he’s right. He also said his glove was great, yet wanted to move on due to his bat and contract demands. Manfred's reply was to use offensive war to prove him wrong, when the original poster was using OPS+. I have zero issues arguing the stinks part, not trying to arguing about his bat not being good using a positional adjusted offensive stat. But if we are talking about that position, why does the adjustment matter? I mean, if we were saying let’s put Dalbec in CF, it could make oWAR tricky. But CF to CF, seems fair.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 16:42:22 GMT -5
Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved. If you want to talk samples, I’d say a 3-year sample of MG that includes 2017 is suspect. 2016: oWAR .08. 2018: oWAR 1.8. 2019: oWAR: .7. 2017: oWAR 4.5! Wow. What was going on in 2017? As I wrote elsewhere, he has a career 99 OPS+ that goes down 7-9 points if you remove 2017! Wow. What was going on that year? He has slugged over .414 once. That was .530 in... 2017. Weird. What WAS going on that year? His second highest OBP is .327. Career of .317. But at his peak, he reached .377. Like he was seeing what was coning that year! When was that? Oh. 2017. Must’ve been La Nina? You are literally doing it again. In 2019 was Gonzalez bat better or worse? Why was his offensive bwar lower? Look at the positions he played. Are you going to remove Bradley's best season also? It's why I'm looking at the last three full years and career numbers. I'm not just focusing on one year. I don't expect 2017, just like I don't expect Bradley's career years. So for me the issue is D, not bat. Unless you're arguing against career numbers or want to look at last year's small sample size.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 12, 2021 16:51:58 GMT -5
He also said his glove was great, yet wanted to move on due to his bat and contract demands. Manfred's reply was to use offensive war to prove him wrong, when the original poster was using OPS+. I have zero issues arguing the stinks part, not trying to arguing about his bat not being good using a positional adjusted offensive stat. But if we are talking about that position, why does the adjustment matter? I mean, if we were saying let’s put Dalbec in CF, it could make oWAR tricky. But CF to CF, seems fair. You compared Bradley to Verdugo using offensive war, yet they played different positions. You can't do that to judge hitting, use OPS+ like the original poster was. Who were the two CFs you compared using offensive war? Like I said the question is Bradley in CF, Verdugo in RF versus Verdugo in CF with some Hernandez, versus who they have play RF. Verdugo is most likely going to be a much better bat in CF, the difference is D. Playing Verdugo and Gonzalez is the OF most likely gives you more offense, the question is does that out way the difference in D? Yet Gonzalez is fairly good in the OF.
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Post by Gwell55 on Feb 12, 2021 16:54:58 GMT -5
Explain to me how Bradley's bat isn't easy to replace? They just signed Gonzalez who was better from 2017 to 2019 for 3 million. I would say arrogance is looking at a small sample size and using position based bwar to judge a players hitting ability when trying to build a team for 2021. The argument for Bradley is his defense. That you want him in CF, Verdugo in RF because that's the best defensive OF. That the extra runs scored would be less than the runs saved. If you want to talk samples, I’d say a 3-year sample of MG that includes 2017 is suspect. 2016: oWAR .08. 2018: oWAR 1.8. 2019: oWAR: .7. 2017: oWAR 4.5! Wow. What was going on in 2017? As I wrote elsewhere, he has a career 99 OPS+ that goes down 7-9 points if you remove 2017! Wow. What was going on that year? He has slugged over .414 once. That was .530 in... 2017. Weird. What WAS going on that year? His second highest OBP is .327. Career of .317. But at his peak, he reached .377. Like he was seeing what was coning that year! When was that? Oh. 2017. Must’ve been La Nina? Naw I think it was Cheatty Cheatty Bang Bang
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2021 17:06:50 GMT -5
If you want to talk samples, I’d say a 3-year sample of MG that includes 2017 is suspect. 2016: oWAR .08. 2018: oWAR 1.8. 2019: oWAR: .7. 2017: oWAR 4.5! Wow. What was going on in 2017? As I wrote elsewhere, he has a career 99 OPS+ that goes down 7-9 points if you remove 2017! Wow. What was going on that year? He has slugged over .414 once. That was .530 in... 2017. Weird. What WAS going on that year? His second highest OBP is .327. Career of .317. But at his peak, he reached .377. Like he was seeing what was coning that year! When was that? Oh. 2017. Must’ve been La Nina? You are literally doing it again. In 2019 was Gonzalez bat better or worse? Why was his offensive bwar lower? Look at the positions he played. Are you going to remove Bradley's best season also? It's why I'm looking at the last three full years and career numbers. I'm not just focusing on one year. I don't expect 2017, just like I don't expect Bradley's career years. So for me the issue is D, not bat. Unless you're arguing against career numbers or want to look at last year's small sample size. I didn’t compare him to Bradley. I compared him to himself. My main point was his career numbers drop a lot if you take out 2017. My secondary point was that other than 2017 he has generally ranged from a below average offensive player to about average. My other point, implicitly , was we have legit reason to drop his 2017 — unlike arbitrarily dropping most players’ best season. It’s cool. Again, it’ll all come out in the wash. But the funny thing is... for all the Strat-o-Stats, I look at the WS of late, and I don’t see any examples of teams that need any zSTAT explanations. An idiot can see the Astros, the Sox, the Dodgers were teams made up of more better players than everyone else. The Nationals weren’t quite the Juggernaut, but they had two generational pitchers to go in short series. So we can debate if Marwin Gonzalez is a good hitter in a petri dish, but those sorts of conversations haven’t slowed down the behemoths as yet. I expect whatever the matchups may be, the Dodgers kick the Red Sox a—es up and down Harvard’s advanced physics labs everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 18:44:15 GMT -5
Also, why are you dragging Mookie Betts into a conversation about JBJ? Mookie is a legit superstar. His WORST season is better than JBJ’s BEST season. I’m not sure what you were going for there. I’m saying that your standards are out of whack if you think Bradley “stinks” as a player. You put a borderline hilarious lack of value on elite defense at a premium position. That’s what I’m going for. If a 3 WAR guy stinks then an 8 WAR guy is merely good. I’m also just taking JBJ’s years as a starter and averaging them out but ok, whatever helps you sleep at night Also just because I’m not embarrassing myself with a lack of baseball knowledge- I’m not for instance completely disregarding elite defense in center field- doesn’t mean I want to bring back Brock Holt. Anyways, this is the Marwin Gonzalez thread. Idk why you choose to hijack it with hyperbolic nonsense about JBJ “Hijack the thread”? That’s pretty funny. Anyway, take it up with Canseco. He’s the one who posted about JBJ before I did. P.S. I sleep GREAT at night.
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 18:47:39 GMT -5
He was 2 oWAR or more every year from 2016 on, except last year when he was 1.6 oWAR in 1/3 of a season. Verdugo was 1.5 oWAR. So.... those were their two best players, and JBJ was actually more valuable offensively. Honestly, if anything I think we underrate JBJ because when he was cold he looked so bad. But when you look at his total numbers for the Sox? Guy was really, really solid. You need to go read up on advanced stats. Offensive bwar is adjusted per position. Gonzalez would put up a 2 oWAR in CF in from 2014-2019. Hence the his offense is easy to replace. Verdugo would have a higher oWAR in CF, Bradley's oWAR would go down in RF or LF. Don’t bother with these guys. They can’t seem to keep Jackie Bradley Jr. straight from Ken Griffey Jr.
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Post by ramireja on Feb 12, 2021 19:15:06 GMT -5
No but seriously, let's actually not hijack the thread. There are JBJ threads if you want to talk about JBJ. Let's keep this thread to Marwin, thanks.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 12, 2021 20:35:07 GMT -5
MARWIN MARWIN MARWIN
YOU WERE A FRIEND OF MINE!!!
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Post by benzinger on Feb 12, 2021 23:53:33 GMT -5
No but seriously, let's actually not hijack the thread. There are JBJ threads if you want to talk about JBJ. Let's keep this thread to Marwin, thanks. Friggin’ Canseco. Always messing things up!
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 13, 2021 6:19:05 GMT -5
Thought this fangraphs chart on Gonzalez was interesting. Appears Gonzalez, springer, beltran, bregman were the biggest beneficiaries of that trash can thing. Gonzalez article
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