|
|
Post by grandsalami on Mar 18, 2013 10:31:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by ramireja on Mar 18, 2013 10:58:22 GMT -5
If I'm understanding this correctly, international signees would essentially be eligible for the Rule 4 draft? There's so much risk and uncertainty attached to these players (despite considerable upside) to the extent that I'm not really sure where most of these players would fit into the draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Mar 18, 2013 11:07:54 GMT -5
If I'm understanding this correctly, international signees would essentially be eligible for the Rule 4 draft? There's so much risk and uncertainty attached to these players (despite considerable upside) to the extent that I'm not really sure where most of these players would fit into the draft. You could say that about many high school players though. Think Lucas Giolito, for example. Obviously it's more extreme, because there is often little to no statistical basis on which to judge, but that alone doesn't mean it's a worse system than having all international players be free agents. Without making a normative statement regarding the fairness of such a system, watching teams weigh the risk-reward would be fascinating. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 11:23:30 GMT -5
i would just expand international spending. i think that things would get too complex if the there was an international draft. i also like the idea of signing international players. it makes things more interesting. it also makes a team less reliant on the draft. if they are a consistently good team, they have less of a chance of drafting good players. international signing allows them to sign players with talent that they couldn't usually draft. in addition, the sox may never have gotten xander if there was an international draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 18, 2013 11:30:04 GMT -5
Wow, what great news. I was really getting worried that 16 year old Dominican kids weren't being exploited enough already.
Do I even need to point out what a disaster the draft has been for Puerto Rican baseball?
|
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Mar 18, 2013 11:40:07 GMT -5
Interesting idea, but it leads to a lot of questions. First and foremost is how they deal with the issue of players having to pass background checks. Would they move the age requirement back to 17 or 18 so younger players had more time to clear ahead of their draft date? Or would teams have to pick players first and then potentially get stuck if they fail it? Or will it be now up to teams to do their own background checks if they wish to draft a player?
All in all I don't see the real downside, the NBA does the same thing and it hasn't limited opportunities for foreign born players in that sport at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2013 12:26:10 GMT -5
If we can't beat them lets just f... them.
Yes the NBA and Hockey have world wide draft but they are different sports. I don't follow the NBA much but the number of internationals in the league while high its still low in comparison to Baseball. Last year Dominicans were ~20% of Major League Baseball and if you take minor leagues into account that number is only bigger. I bet you with a draft under spending limits the % of Dominicans will drop significantly.
If they gonna do a stupid draft just do a separate one because that would give more opportunities to the International players to be drafted.
BTW: are they gonna give Latin American kid scholarships that if they don't want to sign initially they can go to college get an education and improve their draft position? lets make it equal for ALL.
|
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Mar 18, 2013 12:51:02 GMT -5
If we can't beat them lets just f... them. If they gonna do a stupid draft just do a separate one because that would give more opportunities to the International players to be drafted. BTW: are they gonna give Latin American kid scholarships that if they don't want to sign initially they can go to college get an education and improve their draft position? lets make it equal for ALL. Agree 100% |
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Mar 18, 2013 12:55:26 GMT -5
Bad for most of the international players. It would be good for the very best international players who will be drafted in the first round and sign for money which exceeds the current international cap.
|
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Mar 18, 2013 13:12:47 GMT -5
Well I think the system would have to allow for these kids to have leverage of some sort in order to address at least part of the inequalities. For example, an international player drafted who does not sign should be eligible for the following year's draft so they can turn down an offer they don't like and work to improve their status down the road, just like a HS kid in the US can use a scholarship as leverage to get a better offer.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2013 13:25:05 GMT -5
Where is he gonna get better? sitting at home or with a buscon?
But thats not even my main problem. Is that an inclusion into a draft with Americans the number of Latin American players in organized baseball will drop significantly. Puerto Rico is there as an example, don't give me that they had a #1 overall pick because that was ~20 years later and its ONE guy from the lot. Puerto Rico used to be what the Dominican is now, look at them now since they were included in the draft.
A separate draft at least give volume for players to have chances to be drafted.
I'll wait to see what they come up with but a world wide draft with Americans included would VERY bad for Baseball in Latin America. The numbers of players will drop significantly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Henley on Mar 18, 2013 13:31:43 GMT -5
Well I think the system would have to allow for these kids to have leverage of some sort in order to address at least part of the inequalities. For example, an international player drafted who does not sign should be eligible for the following year's draft so they can turn down an offer they don't like and work to improve their status down the road, just like a HS kid in the US can use a scholarship as leverage to get a better offer. You can't compare the situations of a US high school player to a player of a similar age in the DR, Venezuela, etc. No kids from those areas have even a partial scholarship to use as leverage. |
|
|
|
Post by raftsox on Mar 18, 2013 14:17:49 GMT -5
Where is he gonna get better? sitting at home or with a buscon? But thats not even my main problem. Is that an inclusion into a draft with Americans the number of Latin American players in organized baseball will drop significantly. Puerto Rico is there as an example, don't give me that they had a #1 overall pick because that was ~20 years later and its ONE guy from the lot. Puerto Rico used to be what the Dominican is now, look at them now since they were included in the draft. A separate draft at least give volume for players to have chances to be drafted. I'll wait to see what they come up with but a world wide draft with Americans included would VERY bad for Baseball in Latin America. The numbers of players will drop significantly. I agree. High School and College players in the US and Canada have had years of competition for scouts to evaluate them. I imagine the situation in the DR (and other countries) is like that in PR; younger graduation from HS, little to no collegiate opportunities, poor HS structure for games (if it exists), etc. MLB would need to establish many facilities around each country or island where kids can go for exhibition to a group of scouts for inclusion in the draft. |
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2013 14:30:27 GMT -5
There is no HS baseball in DR(Some guys don't even go to school) nor college baseball. There are a bunch of trainer run leagues that have pop up recently all over the country.
|
|
|
|
Post by elguapo on Mar 18, 2013 15:14:58 GMT -5
Abolish the draft.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2013 15:35:09 GMT -5
Something that came to mind with the NHL/NBA comps....
You know where most of the international players for those sports come from? Europe, even the ones that are not Europeans go through Europe 1st. You know what is in Europe that is not in Latin America? professional leagues that are VERY competitive and sustain talent development at high levels. I mean during the lockouts in does leagues some guys were making a ton of money over there.
Latin America, sadly, is a third world country and non of them have the money to sustain professional leagues at high levels. The best they can do is run of the mill scouts leagues that run like weekly showcases where players don't develop much if at all its design to show what scouts want to see not development of Baseball skills.
The comparison between NHL/NBA and MLB don't work in any shape or form.
Then they'll say it was an unintended consequence. At this point I believe it is intended. I guess they are tired of signing Dominicans for 20K and they becoming stars.
|
|
|
|
Post by mainesox on Mar 18, 2013 16:50:54 GMT -5
If I'm understanding this correctly, international signees would essentially be eligible for the Rule 4 draft? There's so much risk and uncertainty attached to these players (despite considerable upside) to the extent that I'm not really sure where most of these players would fit into the draft. Maybe. It sounds like they are essentially weighing two options, one would be to just throw them into the current rule 4 draft, but the other would create a second, completely separate draft for international players. Not completely sure how I feel about this idea either way, but my gut feeling is that it won't end well. |
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 18, 2013 18:19:09 GMT -5
BTW: are they gonna give Latin American kid scholarships that if they don't want to sign initially they can go to college get an education and improve their draft position? lets make it equal for ALL. HA! cute. |
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 18, 2013 18:49:37 GMT -5
I wonder if the World Trade Organization wouldn't be interested in this initiative. If it's part of the overall Rule 4 draft it won't have much to do with the free market, that's for certain. Even if it isn't part of that fixed pool, odds are that the process will be about keeping costs down for MLB clubs by limiting the choices available to draftees. I don't think pedro's ideas are all that far off from what I'd like to see as reality. If you're going to limit their options, then give these kids a chance, whether or not it's in baseball.
|
|
|
|
Post by bentossaurus on Mar 18, 2013 20:42:51 GMT -5
If they gonna do a stupid draft just do a separate one because that would give more opportunities to the International players to be drafted. BTW: are they gonna give Latin American kid scholarships that if they don't want to sign initially they can go to college get an education and improve their draft position? lets make it equal for ALL. Now, if they do a separate draft with hard-slotting, teams won't be able to lowball them. Where you were drafted is what you get. Problem is, I already imagine the slots value would be dirt cheap. |
|
|
|
Post by prangerx on Mar 19, 2013 9:21:23 GMT -5
So Buster Onley is claiming that the owners might be willing to make conccessions to the union to make this work. With perhaps a higher minimum salary and less service time requirements.
I dont know i think the owners would be crazy to give up any service time.
|
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Mar 19, 2013 9:52:43 GMT -5
Something that came to mind with the NHL/NBA comps.... You know where most of the international players for those sports come from? Europe, even the ones that are not Europeans go through Europe 1st. You know what is in Europe that is not in Latin America? professional leagues that are VERY competitive and sustain talent development at high levels. I mean during the lockouts in does leagues some guys were making a ton of money over there. Latin America, sadly, is a third world country and non of them have the money to sustain professional leagues at high levels. The best they can do is run of the mill scouts leagues that run like weekly showcases where players don't develop much if at all its design to show what scouts want to see not development of Baseball skills. The comparison between NHL/NBA and MLB don't work in any shape or form. Then they'll say it was an unintended consequence. At this point I believe it is intended. I guess they are tired of signing Dominicans for 20K and they becoming stars. Good points, you've kind of won me over to your side here. |
|
