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8/10-8/12 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 15:57:01 GMT -5
And here's part of the other bit. So yeah, I've been consistent in my messaging and my cynicism regarding the Front Office: Here's the thing. The selling teams were in gouge mode. The Yankees were in an out of their minds panic and the Dodgers have so much minor league depth they could pay crazy prices. I'm sure Bloome worked the phones and teams weren't interested in 24+ year old guys in the top 20 prospects. Teams wanted young high upside guys. From my perspective I'd have traded Duran rather than Ramirez. Maybe that was offered. Duran is 24. He sold out for power. His K rate exploded and his average took a big hit. I'm sure we don't want to re-litigate the deadline. I'm just saying that any "major reshuffling" at this point in the Cotillo article - other than the guys coming off the DL - is just window dressing so Henry-Kennedy-Bloom don't have to admit their intent to stay in first and win at the MLB level was not a priority, which most fans (i.e. not the types here, in general, though not in total) find abhorrent.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 10, 2021 16:05:40 GMT -5
Pretty much, yeah. Exactly on that date I started talking about it, in fact (and before that in late June I was saying they should bring up Duran and Ort and give them 21 days so they can make informed decisions at the deadline.): And here's part of the other bit. So yeah, I've been consistent in my messaging and my cynicism regarding the Front Office: I hope Bloom doesn't forget that even the 2018 team needed a Steve Pierce to get over the top. And an over the top Steve Pierce at that. This team still needs a legit lead-off hitter as the pitching gets SO much better in the playoffs. I would prefer a move that has some control, but if we're moving sub top 10 prospects for a rental, that's fine. I still contend he needs to bring up/audition Franchy and Duran for the offense, and Ort in the pen before making any move. The latter two will involve 40 man moves, but Santana has become expendable, as has Workman. Hmm, I'm not sure if calling up Duran, Franchy, and Ort really counts as a "roster shakeup." In any event, they did 2 of those 3, and Ort's a 29-year-old who's been only okay in AAA whom they evidently preferred Hansel Robles to, so I don't think he was going to be a game-changer.
Now bringing in "a couple of players in positions of need who have some years of control beyond this year" certainly would have shaken up the roster. But who are we talking about here? Gallo and Berrios? I don't think anyone else who was traded at this deadline would fit that description. I would have liked bringing in someone like Carlos Santana or Josh Bell, but as we came to find out those guys just weren't available.
ADD: Okay. I absolutely promise I won't engage in this debate after this comment. I'll just say, one more time, that if you listen to Bloom's public statements and apply common sense to the options available to the team, you have everything you need to explain their actions without needing to posit some sort of nefarious public relations agenda.
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Post by soxinjersey on Aug 10, 2021 16:09:42 GMT -5
Foolishly, perhaps, I find myself looking forward to a series for the first time in a while. It's been no fun watching success slip away, at first slowly and then rapidly, but now Red Sox backs are against the wall and that should change things.
The loss Sunday was devastating but ultimately maybe a good thing. If they had won the last two games in Toronto, the Sox could perhaps have fooled themselves into believing they had righted the ship, but it's better perhaps to deal with some heartbreak and embarrassment. I have no statistics to prove this but a lifetime of watching tells me that teams that lose a heartbreaker win a surprisingly high number of their next games. It's amazing sometimes in sports how quickly struggling teams can turn things around (as we've just seen with the Yankees). All year, the Sox have been successful by grinding and being resilient. In this series, emotionally the Sox should be all in against the Rays. Can we hope that they will get it going and begin to feed positively off of each other's success?
Looking ahead, the Sox know that reinforcements are coming and that they will help: Sale and Schwarber can make a major difference. The Sox have missed Arroyo. Brasier, if he's close to his best, will be a significant addition, and Seabold, if he pitches well over another 3-4 starts in AAA, could contribute in a manner similar to Whitlock and Houck in September.
All year, the Sox having been doing it with mirrors, but so has everyone else. The Sox have a path to the postseason, and this series will be a good indicator of whether they will make it there. I've got my fingers crossed.
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Post by bcsox on Aug 10, 2021 17:00:28 GMT -5
Dalbec is my binkie, yet even I am having a hard time justifying his existence on this roster. If it is in his head, which the repeated failure and not being able to put the ball in play, even, must be causing him extreme second guessing in the box, then he needs to go down, take a week off and try to fix it. He wont do that hear with the pressure mounting and the fans killing him. On the other site, he is a pinata in the game threads.
If it is not mostly mental, then this might be worse, he didnt seem to be displaying anything close to this much incompetence in his short window last year. Maybe they got a book on him. If it is, it is a preschool book, because really the only thing you cant do is walk him. Other pitchers are trating him like a hitting pitcher. Heart of the plate with so many pitches and he cant get a bat on it. He seems to be missing in every zone, above the belt, middle in, below the belt, offspeed, fastballs. Everything seems to be a hole. I am sure he is trying. He seemed to choke up when he first started to struggle, and his contact rate seemed to improve, but that is gone. He seemed to come out of it a lttle bit, but then had that awful seried in Tampa near the end of June, where he went something like 0-11, with 9 or 10 strikeouts, and he hasnt come back from that. It happens.
When he does make contact, he seems to be hitting everything on the ground. If he is going to salvage anything this year, he needs to go deep. the twice per week singles arent helping. If he hits .215, and his OBP is .275, that all stinks, but it is borderline playable if he hits 25-30 big flies, and slugs in the high 400's low 500's.
On a separate note, Marwin deserves to go, and this will be a good litmus test for Chaim. Is he willing to admit his mistake and dump Marwin. He was an offseason acquistion. Santana he can throw overbpard and say he was a midseason flier, but Marwin represents someone he sough out and bid for. Is he willing to look bad?
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 17:19:09 GMT -5
And here's part of the other bit. So yeah, I've been consistent in my messaging and my cynicism regarding the Front Office: Hmm, I'm not sure if calling up Duran, Franchy, and Ort really counts as a "roster shakeup." In any event, they did 2 of those 3, and Ort's a 29-year-old who's been only okay in AAA whom they evidently preferred Hansel Robles to, so I don't think he was going to be a game-changer.
Now bringing in "a couple of players in positions of need who have some years of control beyond this year" certainly would have shaken up the roster. But who are we talking about here? Gallo and Berrios? I don't think anyone else who was traded at this deadline would fit that description. I would have liked bringing in someone like Carlos Santana or Josh Bell, but as we came to find out those guys just weren't available. ADD: Okay. I absolutely promise I won't engage in this debate after this comment. I'll just say, one more time, that if you listen to Bloom's public statements and apply common sense to the options available to the team, you have everything you need to explain their actions without needing to posit some sort of nefarious public relations agenda. This was preceded by me saying on Jul 20 - exactly the date Chris mentioned - that I missed Dombrowski moving early and cited the “even the 2018 team needed a Steve Pearce (and an over the top Steve Pearce at that). To see fully what you need before shake-ups before or at the deadline, one should audition AAA guys who might help now before going shopping. All going back to my point that any “shake-up” now is more a PR exercise and guys coming of the DL than a pre-emptive shake-up that legitimately should’ve happen before or at the deadline. And yes, I think the Front Office and ownership are spinning and that and any “reshuffling” this is all predicated at PR damage control/optic for the vast bulk of fans - most of whom don’t give a rip about “buildinggne farm” when their team has been in first for weeks and has (now had) a legit shot to win the division. It’s guys coming of the DL and deck chairs on the Titanic. That is all.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 17:25:45 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm not sure if calling up Duran, Franchy, and Ort really counts as a "roster shakeup." In any event, they did 2 of those 3, and Ort's a 29-year-old who's been only okay in AAA whom they evidently preferred Hansel Robles to, so I don't think he was going to be a game-changer.
Now bringing in "a couple of players in positions of need who have some years of control beyond this year" certainly would have shaken up the roster. But who are we talking about here? Gallo and Berrios? I don't think anyone else who was traded at this deadline would fit that description. I would have liked bringing in someone like Carlos Santana or Josh Bell, but as we came to find out those guys just weren't available. ADD: Okay. I absolutely promise I won't engage in this debate after this comment. I'll just say, one more time, that if you listen to Bloom's public statements and apply common sense to the options available to the team, you have everything you need to explain their actions without needing to posit some sort of nefarious public relations agenda. This was preceded by me saying on Jul 20 - exactly the date Chris mentioned - that I missed Dombrowski moving early and cited the “even the 2018 team needed a Steve Pearce (and an over the top Steve Pearce at that). To see fully what you need before shake-ups before or at the deadline, one should audition AAA guys who might help now before going shopping. All going back to my point that any “shake-up” now is more a PR exercise and guys coming of the DL than a pre-emptive shake-up that legitimately should’ve happen before or at the deadline. And yes, I think the Front Office and ownership are spinning and that and any “reshuffling” this is all predicated at PR damage control/optic for the vast bulk of fans - most of whom don’t give a rip about “buildinggne farm” when their team has been in first for weeks and has (now had) a legit shot to win the division. It’s guys coming of the DL and deck chairs on the Titanic. That is all. Every one here knows how I feel. They pissed away a legit opportunity for the Division in exchange for protecting prospects who, other than Casas, and maybe Duran and Groome (IMHO Mayer can’t be traded this year) have a chance to be average or above average MLB players. They also ignore their big advantage over most other teams - money - which they could’ve used to absorb all the salary of a couple key targets.
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Post by Canseco on Aug 10, 2021 18:12:11 GMT -5
Here we go again…
When is the last time we wore our home white unis? You know… our actual uniforms?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 10, 2021 18:14:47 GMT -5
If the Red Sox are going to stay in the race, E-Rod is going to have to be a big part of it. This game will act as more of a bellwether than most.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 10, 2021 18:15:35 GMT -5
Here we go again… When is the last time we wore our home white unis? You know… our actual uniforms? What? Today's not Friday? I think the starting pitcher gets to choose the uni and a lot of them seem to like the red jerseys.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 18:21:39 GMT -5
Nice first inning, reasonable pitch count, control looks good
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 10, 2021 18:35:32 GMT -5
Nice first inning, reasonable pitch count, control looks good And how about that second inning too!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 18:36:24 GMT -5
Ok Eddie
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 18:38:04 GMT -5
Devers!!
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 10, 2021 18:38:06 GMT -5
Here we go again… When is the last time we wore our home white unis? You know… our actual uniforms? Agree. I’m very traditional about this. Whites at home, greys on the road. Alternate jersey on Friday only.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 18:39:47 GMT -5
That was a piss missile
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 10, 2021 18:41:45 GMT -5
Patino appears to have a bit of a HR problem
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 18:41:54 GMT -5
You don’t get that rook, get back on the mound
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 10, 2021 18:47:37 GMT -5
'Sup people ? Ready for the Tampa demolition ??
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 18:48:41 GMT -5
Nice first inning, reasonable pitch count, control looks good And how about that second inning too! had to go water the garden, wife told me about Raffi's dinger. so far so good
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 18:49:24 GMT -5
Well that got rocked
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 10, 2021 18:49:46 GMT -5
Ooops....maybe i am the problem !!
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Post by Guidas on Aug 10, 2021 18:49:53 GMT -5
Aaand we give it right back.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 18:50:08 GMT -5
ugh. maybe I should go water some more
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 18:50:44 GMT -5
Ooops....maybe i am the problem !! it's not you, it's me!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 18:54:09 GMT -5
Nobody loves killing the Sox at Fenway more than Brandon Lowe
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