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8/24-8/26 Red Sox vs. Twins Thread
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 23, 2021 21:37:15 GMT -5
8/24 Red Sox (RHP Tanner Houck, 0-3, 3.12, 34.2 IP, 46K:7BB) vs. Twins (RHP Griffin Jax, 3-1, 5.11, 44.0IP, 35K:15BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 8/25 Red Sox (RHP Nick Pivetta, 9-6, 4.43, 126.0 IP, 140K:55BB) vs. Twins (RHP Bailey Ober, 1-2, 4.38, 63.2 IP, 65K:16BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI 8/26 Red Sox (LHP Chris Sale, 2-0, 1.80, 10.0 IP, 13K:1BB)) vs. Twins (RHP John Gant, 4-7, 3.77, 88.1 IP, 73K:59BB) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI MLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsA note regarding moderating of the gameday threads in 2021: As the disclaimer has always said, in the past, we have been very liberal in moderating the Gameday threads. They're meant to be a lot less formal than other threads on the forum, so to moderate them the same way would be silly. However, we do ask posters to maintain a certain level of decorum in these threads, and we plan on moderating the Gameday threads a little more actively this season. In particular, we ask that posters refrain from being overly repetitive with their posts (if you've made your point, let it go), refrain from monopolizing the discussion (if you are making more than a couple posts in a row, you probably need to slow down a little bit), and of course, follow the Ground Rules ( link). The point is to make these threads worth participating in and fun for all posters, from our long-time fixtures to people just signing up today. -The Management
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 23, 2021 22:24:55 GMT -5
Houck 0-3 with that K/BB smh guys, stop letting him down like that.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2021 22:44:43 GMT -5
Houck 0-3 with that K/BB smh guys, stop letting him down like that. They don't score for the 4 or 5 innings he pitches. Then the pen comes in and gives it up. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 23, 2021 22:47:34 GMT -5
They don't score for the 4 or 5 innings he pitches. Then the pen comes in and gives it up. Those are some AWESOME 4 or 5 innings though, the bats need to stop letting him down. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2021 22:47:35 GMT -5
Houck 0-3 with that K/BB smh guys, stop letting him down like that. Can’t get a win if you don’t go 5 |
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 23, 2021 22:50:25 GMT -5
Can’t get a win if you don’t go 5 Damn I keep forgetting that arbitrary rule. |
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 24, 2021 0:13:23 GMT -5
Tanner Houcks most impressive stat is the teams he has faced. Give him some easyer games and the innings and Ws will Pile up.
Aug. 17
@
NYY
Aug. 12
vs
TB
Aug. 7
@
TOR
Jul. 28
vs
TOR
Jul. 22
vs
NYY
Jul. 16
@
NYY
Apr. 18
vs
CWS
Apr. 6
vs
TB
Apr. 3
vs
BAL
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 24, 2021 0:47:14 GMT -5
As above and more there are lots of good reasons for Houck to continue as a starter. Really the only reason to keep him and Whitlock as RPs is because how awful the pen could be without them.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 24, 2021 6:27:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the Houck reliever ship sailed a while ago. The schedule made it perfect for him to be optioned then called up as the extra man for two double headers.
Somewhere, I read that Houck lost a total of $44,000 by being optioned.Chump change for the Sox but big real world dollars for Houck. Hopefully the Sox will find a way to compensate him for his service.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 24, 2021 7:26:41 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the Houck reliever ship sailed a while ago. The schedule made it perfect for him to be optioned then called up as the extra man for two double headers. Somewhere, I read that Houck lost a total of $44,000 by being optioned.Chump change for the Sox but big real world dollars for Houck. Hopefully the Sox will find a way to compensate him for his service. I read the same and thought the same, in the end it really shouldn't matter much unless he flames out and never gets truly paid. And who knows maybe the Sox have been doing something on the side to make these trips back and forth a little easier on him. Also in that article it talked about how it has basically allowed the Sox to carry an extra BP arm for the past month or so. I am up in the air over what to expect out of him next year, can he be effective as a starter expected to go 6 innings. 50/50 at this point to me. |
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 24, 2021 7:31:31 GMT -5
For this season at least, yes. In part because there is no alternative after the Richards/Perez move to the pen...and ofcourse because he has been fantasic  I'm pretty sure they are in the market for a starter this offseason, simply because one is easier to sign then, than to trade for at the deadline. He might find himself back in a high leverage/multi inning/shutdown reliever + spot starter role early in 2022 |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2021 8:22:13 GMT -5
For this season at least, yes. In part because there is no alternative after the Richards/Perez move to the pen...and ofcourse because he has been fantasic I'm pretty sure they are in the market for a starter this offseason, simply because one is easier to sign then, than to trade for at the deadline. He might find himself back in a high leverage/multi inning/shutdown reliever + spot starter role early in 2022 I figure they'll try to add to the pen this offseason just as much as the rotation. Eovaldi and Pivetta are definites for next season. I figure if E-Rod signs a big bargain contract he could come back or they'll replace him with a mid tier free agent. I figure Whitlock, Houck, and Seabold are candidates for the rotation and they'll add another back end arm, and another reclamation project to give them 8 viable starters. They'll have to add to the pen. I figure Ottavino won't be back. They know Barnes is a question mark to be effective for the entirety of the season. And with Whitlock out of the pen and Houck not being a reliever, they will need to get several relievers of varying leverage situations. As far as this season goes Houck only goes to the pen in a post-season series situation, and the idea of him and Whitlock as guys coming into the game in the 6th inning or so and being shutdown guys for two innings would be huge, if Ottavino and Barnes can return to what they were, which is a questionable proposition. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 24, 2021 9:27:56 GMT -5
I’m still thinking about Shaw’s dinger. My thought process went from:
— this is a new low
to
— meh, they may win, but this is still so uninspiring
to
— BAM! That is how you end a game!
It feels less important that they won than that it was such a huge hit in a huge moment. And from an unexpected guy. It is the kind of win that stands out later.
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Post by jkfer98 on Aug 24, 2021 10:02:00 GMT -5
Any chance they move Barnes off the closer role (in most situations) and start giving Whitlock the bulk of the "high leverage" spots? I feel like with a month left and such a tight race it needs to be considered.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2021 10:17:36 GMT -5
Any chance they move Barnes off the closer role (in most situations) and start giving Whitlock the bulk of the "high leverage" spots? I feel like with a month left and such a tight race it needs to be considered. He's never pitched on back-to-back days. Or he has never pitched 4 games in 5 days. I don't think they do that. I don't think they want to mess with him. My guess is they're more concerned about his long-term future, as a starter in 2022 and beyond, and don't want to mess with that. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 24, 2021 10:19:49 GMT -5
Any chance they move Barnes off the closer role (in most situations) and start giving Whitlock the bulk of the "high leverage" spots? I feel like with a month left and such a tight race it needs to be considered. He's never pitched on back-to-back days. Or he has never pitched 4 games in 5 days. I don't think they do that. I don't think they want to mess with him. My guess is they're more concerned about his long-term future, as a starter in 2022 and beyond, and don't want to mess with that. They could mix him in, though. On days he was going yo pitch anyway, he could throw the 8th and 9th instead of the 6th and 7th. Now… that just means they move the problem to those earlier innings, I guess! |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2021 10:24:21 GMT -5
He's never pitched on back-to-back days. Or he has never pitched 4 games in 5 days. I don't think they do that. I don't think they want to mess with him. My guess is they're more concerned about his long-term future, as a starter in 2022 and beyond, and don't want to mess with that. They could mix him in, though. On days he was going yo pitch anyway, he could throw the 8th and 9th instead of the 6th and 7th. Now… that just means they move the problem to those earlier innings, I guess! They could do it, but if they have the lead on back-to-back days I don't see Whitlock doing that. I can see your idea of Whitlock taking the 8th and 9th but ultimately Barnes will have to get his stuff together for the Sox to win. Ottavino who is struggling can close. Sawamura but given how many homers he gives up and the fact that he can't work consecutive days....closer by committee for awhile until Barnes gets his act together. There's not much in the way of quality options for a closer by committee though. Ottavino is not sharp. Taylor hasn't pitched that well since his scoreless streak ended. I wouldn't trust Robles. Sawamura is best in a limited role. The bullpen hierarchy worked so well when Barnes was pitching well as a closer, Ottavino the setup man and Whitlock and Sawamura in the middle along with Taylor and Hernandez. Brasier might be able to help but he's not a closer and at this point he's getting batted around in AAA. Not many great options at this point. I think this is all a by-product of all those 4.5 inning starts. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 24, 2021 10:37:51 GMT -5
They could mix him in, though. On days he was going yo pitch anyway, he could throw the 8th and 9th instead of the 6th and 7th. Now… that just means they move the problem to those earlier innings, I guess! They could do it, but if they have the lead on back-to-back days I don't see Whitlock doing that. I can see your idea of Whitlock taking the 8th and 9th but ultimately Barnes will have to get his stuff together for the Sox to win. Ottavino who is struggling can close. Sawamura but given how many homers he gives up and the fact that he can't work consecutive days....closer by committee for awhile until Barnes gets his act together. There's not much in the way of quality options for a closer by committee though. Ottavino is not sharp. Taylor hasn't pitched that well since his scoreless streak ended. I wouldn't trust Robles. Sawamura is best in a limited role. The bullpen hierarchy worked so well when Barnes was pitching well as a closer, Ottavino the setup man and Whitlock and Sawamura in the middle along with Taylor and Hernandez. Brasier might be able to help but he's not a closer and at this point he's getting batted around in AAA. Not many great options at this point. I think this is all a by-product of all those 4.5 inning starts. I don’t blame the short outings. Barnes has lost it, and I don’t think it is fatigue. I might trust Ottavino to close as much as I do Barnes. AO melts down at times, but to me, his stuff is better than Barnes’s. They are both highwire acts. But in the end, you are right… they had a great thing when it was working, and their best chance is getting it working again. |
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 24, 2021 10:40:45 GMT -5
Houck 0-3 with that K/BB smh guys, stop letting him down like that. Yes, Houck has had no run support |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2021 10:48:00 GMT -5
They could do it, but if they have the lead on back-to-back days I don't see Whitlock doing that. I can see your idea of Whitlock taking the 8th and 9th but ultimately Barnes will have to get his stuff together for the Sox to win. Ottavino who is struggling can close. Sawamura but given how many homers he gives up and the fact that he can't work consecutive days....closer by committee for awhile until Barnes gets his act together. There's not much in the way of quality options for a closer by committee though. Ottavino is not sharp. Taylor hasn't pitched that well since his scoreless streak ended. I wouldn't trust Robles. Sawamura is best in a limited role. The bullpen hierarchy worked so well when Barnes was pitching well as a closer, Ottavino the setup man and Whitlock and Sawamura in the middle along with Taylor and Hernandez. Brasier might be able to help but he's not a closer and at this point he's getting batted around in AAA. Not many great options at this point. I think this is all a by-product of all those 4.5 inning starts. I don’t blame the short outings. Barnes has lost it, and I don’t think it is fatigue. I might trust Ottavino to close as much as I do Barnes. AO melts down at times, but to me, his stuff is better than Barnes’s. They are both highwire acts. But in the end, you are right… they had a great thing when it was working, and their best chance is getting it working again. I would say that Bloom has more work to do with the pen than the rotation this offseason. He has Whitlock, Houck, and Seabold primed to be starting pitching candidates, but yeah, he'll either have to re-sign E-Rod or sign a replacement and get some more back end depth. But for the pen, there's Bazardo as a possibility. Ort maybe? They're going to need some high leverage guys, at least 2 more I figure, one to replace Ottavino if they don't bring him back and one more to push Barnes down into the setup role or at least be a closing option when Barnes struggles. If Kimbrel becomes a free agent, maybe the Sox look at him, although I can't see Bloom spending money that way. I'm sure there'll be other options. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 24, 2021 10:56:31 GMT -5
I don’t blame the short outings. Barnes has lost it, and I don’t think it is fatigue. I might trust Ottavino to close as much as I do Barnes. AO melts down at times, but to me, his stuff is better than Barnes’s. They are both highwire acts. But in the end, you are right… they had a great thing when it was working, and their best chance is getting it working again. I would say that Bloom has more work to do with the pen than the rotation this offseason. He has Whitlock, Houck, and Seabold primed to be starting pitching candidates, but yeah, he'll either have to re-sign E-Rod or sign a replacement and get some more back end depth. But for the pen, there's Bazardo as a possibility. Ort maybe? They're going to need some high leverage guys, at least 2 more I figure, one to replace Ottavino if they don't bring him back and one more to push Barnes down into the setup role or at least be a closing option when Barnes struggles. If Kimbrel becomes a free agent, maybe the Sox look at him, although I can't see Bloom spending money that way. I'm sure there'll be other options. Hard pass on Kimbrel. He is melting down again. And, as you say, it is a huge investment. I hope they resign ERod, but even if they don’t they have Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, Whitlock, and Seabold who all look like good bets to be no less than serviceable. So Bloom could probably do a Perez-type for depth… nothing extravagant. Now… I’d *love* to add Scherzer, but the money might be better directed elsewhere. The pen could be almost an entire redo. It’ll be tough to get a closer without overspending. This is where Bloom needs to work some magic… find a non-closer who they project as being better than people previously thought. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2021 11:09:00 GMT -5
I would say that Bloom has more work to do with the pen than the rotation this offseason. He has Whitlock, Houck, and Seabold primed to be starting pitching candidates, but yeah, he'll either have to re-sign E-Rod or sign a replacement and get some more back end depth. But for the pen, there's Bazardo as a possibility. Ort maybe? They're going to need some high leverage guys, at least 2 more I figure, one to replace Ottavino if they don't bring him back and one more to push Barnes down into the setup role or at least be a closing option when Barnes struggles. If Kimbrel becomes a free agent, maybe the Sox look at him, although I can't see Bloom spending money that way. I'm sure there'll be other options. Hard pass on Kimbrel. He is melting down again. And, as you say, it is a huge investment. I hope they resign ERod, but even if they don’t they have Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, Whitlock, and Seabold who all look like good bets to be no less than serviceable. So Bloom could probably do a Perez-type for depth… nothing extravagant. Now… I’d *love* to add Scherzer, but the money might be better directed elsewhere. The pen could be almost an entire redo. It’ll be tough to get a closer without overspending. This is where Bloom needs to work some magic… find a non-closer who they project as being better than people previously thought. Yeah, that's what I suspect he'll do, get a low profile guy to close. Kimbrel will make somebody a great closer, but he's expensive and as we see he cannot pitch any inning but the 9th in a save situation. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 24, 2021 11:21:59 GMT -5
Tanner Houcks most impressive stat is the teams he has faced. Give him some easyer games and the innings and Ws will Pile up. Aug. 17 @ NYY Aug. 12 vs TB Aug. 7 @ TOR Jul. 28 vs TOR Jul. 22 vs NYY Jul. 16 @ NYY Apr. 18 vs CWS Apr. 6 vs TB Apr. 3 vs BAL FWIW, him facing the Yankees and Toronto that often was almost certainly by design given how heavily right-handed both lineups are, as many of us noticed and noted at the time. the White Sox and O's are pretty right-handed as well. |
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Post by station13 on Aug 24, 2021 12:14:50 GMT -5
Any chance they move Barnes off the closer role (in most situations) and start giving Whitlock the bulk of the "high leverage" spots? I feel like with a month left and such a tight race it needs to be considered. Who places Whitlock? The walk-a-ton Barnes, Sawamura and Ottavino? As far as high leverage situations, Whitlock has pitch more of that than Barnes. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 24, 2021 12:24:50 GMT -5
Feltman seems to have rediscovered something in Woo.. another pen possibility?
Well, a win today would be nice, but with a tad less drama than yesterday.
I've not read a thing about another Barnes implosion. Seemed pretty newsy, 5th blown save.
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