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Post by ramireja on Sept 23, 2021 12:47:40 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 13:01:58 GMT -5
I was excited when the Sox got Hernandez, but from what I have read in the past (couldn't access the Masslive article), his defense is highly questionable and his BB/K ratio has always been bad. This year it was 11 walks in over 300 ABs.
So that got me to looking at Connor Wong, who many feel will be a backup/utility man, and his BB/K is even more atrocious.
Both guys have good power. I mean Salvatore Perez has always been a low OBP guy, but he's always had a decent hit tool and the power this year (and last) has been off the charts. The defense is good of course and what Wong and Hernandez would need to work on.
I was hoping, as the decision to cut ties or keep Vazquez gets closer, that one of these guys would assert himself as Red Sox catcher of the future, but I'm not sure, despite some good hitting on Hernandez's part at the end of the season, has necessarily established himself as that. I'm guessing that Bloom and company gave Nate Hickey the bonus money he did because they're hopeful he can potentially become the catcher of the future at some point soon?
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Post by patford on Sept 23, 2021 14:36:26 GMT -5
I was excited when the Sox got Hernandez, but from what I have read in the past (couldn't access the Masslive article), his defense is highly questionable and his BB/K ratio has always been bad. This year it was 11 walks in over 300 ABs. So that got me to looking at Connor Wong, who many feel will be a backup/utility man, and his BB/K is even more atrocious. Both guys have good power. I mean Salvatore Perez has always been a low OBP guy, but he's always had a decent hit tool and the power this year (and last) has been off the charts. The defense is good of course and what Wong and Hernandez would need to work on. I was hoping, as the decision to cut ties or keep Vazquez gets closer, that one of these guys would assert himself as Red Sox catcher of the future, but I'm not sure, despite some good hitting on Hernandez's part at the end of the season, has necessarily established himself as that. I'm guessing that Bloom and company gave Nate Hickey the bonus money he did because they're hopeful he can potentially become the catcher of the future at some point soon? His K rate isn't bad he just does not walk. You can read that article in "reader mode" at least it worked for me.
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Post by jmei on Sept 23, 2021 19:25:53 GMT -5
Hickey had nothing to do with Hernandez. That is not how this front office (really, any front office) thinks about asset allocation.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 19:29:25 GMT -5
Hickey had nothing to do with Hernandez. That is not how this front office (really, any front office) thinks about asset allocation. I didn't say he did. I said that Sox management must think highly of Hickey's future as a catcher to give him the amount they gave him to sign.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 23, 2021 19:35:30 GMT -5
Hickey had nothing to do with Hernandez. That is not how this front office (really, any front office) thinks about asset allocation. I didn't say he did. I said that Sox management must think highly of Hickey's future as a catcher to give him the amount they gave him to sign. Every prospect and employee is an asset. Some of us are paid like slaves.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 23, 2021 22:14:03 GMT -5
From the little I've seen of Hernandez, he seems like a very talented, unpolished backstop. I look forward to seeing more of him now that he's one step closer to the bigs. A mid-'20s tandem of Wong and Hernandez looks pretty promising though.
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Post by alan on Sept 24, 2021 6:51:51 GMT -5
Question about his hit tool, because it seems like he’s hit tool is just fine, but doesn’t get much love. He doesn’t strike out, and the swinging strikes looks ok. Is it because his pitch recognition is bad and just swings at everything?
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 24, 2021 7:34:20 GMT -5
Question about his hit tool, because it seems like he’s hit tool is just fine, but doesn’t get much love. He doesn’t strike out, and the swinging strikes looks ok. Is it because his pitch recognition is bad and just swings at everything? I saw him twice later in the season at Portland, once as DH and once as catcher. At a listed 6'1" and 230 lbs., he is heavy set...envision a thicker Gary Sanchez type. Perhaps as such did not appear to be a particularly fluid, or athletic guy. Altho he did exhibit a strong arm, I suspect his POP is borderline. There are few pitches that he doesn't like and on limited observation seemed to have trouble with breaking balls (In one at bat he swung and missed 3 consecutive slow curves). When bat hits ball he clearly does damage as I saw a long double to right and a pea halfway up the left field wall. I'll bet that his propensity to swing will be exploited at MLB, unless he adjusts, and assuming he makes it. Catcher/DH seem his only likely opportunities.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 24, 2021 8:18:27 GMT -5
I didn't say he did. I said that Sox management must think highly of Hickey's future as a catcher to give him the amount they gave him to sign. Every prospect and employee is an asset. Some of us are paid like slaves. Pay is supply and demand. Maybe a different career choice would be wiser. Many if not all of the players drafted had scholarships. Many drafted between rounds 20-40 should have taken the scholarship as their bonuses are low and the mlb probably is low! They would have been better off getting a degree and a career they can make better money for there entire life. My wife was an art teacher at $19,000 per year. After going back to school for five years is now a pharmacist making $160,000 per year. As Nike says, “Just do it”.
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Post by borisman on Sept 24, 2021 10:05:20 GMT -5
From the little I've seen of Hernandez, he seems like a very talented, unpolished backstop.I look forward to seeing more of him now that he's one step closer to the bigs. A mid-'20s tandem of Wong and Hernandez looks pretty promising though. If only more Variteks fell out of the tree once reach the age of 25, though in Tek's case it was the bat that had less polish.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,196
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Post by cdj on Sept 24, 2021 19:49:28 GMT -5
Every prospect and employee is an asset. Some of us are paid like slaves. Pay is supply and demand. Maybe a different career choice would be wiser. Many if not all of the players drafted had scholarships. Many drafted between rounds 20-40 should have taken the scholarship as their bonuses are low and the mlb probably is low! They would have been better off getting a degree and a career they can make better money for there entire life. My wife was an art teacher at $19,000 per year. After going back to school for five years is now a pharmacist making $160,000 per year. As Nike says, “Just do it”. This is not supply and demand in the case of minor league ball players, this is the MLB lobbying Congress to keep these guys from getting paid the bare minimum I for one think teams should treat their minor league players with dignity but that’s just me. I mean you’re trying to develop them, it probably helps to make sure they don’t have to sleep 5 to a hotel room and eat Taco Bell every day. You’d figure a fan of the game and presumably a fan of minor league baseball would like to see players treated correctly, especially when you want them to turn into big leaguers. I’m Glad this team has made strides in that department and it disturbs me that so many people are willing to be complete simps to billionaires when it comes to labor issues in sports. Blows my mind and it’s honestly it’s lame as hell www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/congress-save-americas-pastime-act-would-allow-teams-to-pay-minor-leaguers-less-than-minimum-wage/ Don’t know what this has to do with Ronaldo Hernandez though
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 1, 2021 12:37:58 GMT -5
Pay is supply and demand. Maybe a different career choice would be wiser. Many if not all of the players drafted had scholarships. Many drafted between rounds 20-40 should have taken the scholarship as their bonuses are low and the mlb probably is low! They would have been better off getting a degree and a career they can make better money for there entire life. My wife was an art teacher at $19,000 per year. After going back to school for five years is now a pharmacist making $160,000 per year. As Nike says, “Just do it”. This is not supply and demand in the case of minor league ball players, this is the MLB lobbying Congress to keep these guys from getting paid the bare minimum I for one think teams should treat their minor league players with dignity but that’s just me. I mean you’re trying to develop them, it probably helps to make sure they don’t have to sleep 5 to a hotel room and eat Taco Bell every day. You’d figure a fan of the game and presumably a fan of minor league baseball would like to see players treated correctly, especially when you want them to turn into big leaguers. I’m Glad this team has made strides in that department and it disturbs me that so many people are willing to be complete simps to billionaires when it comes to labor issues in sports. Blows my mind and it’s honestly it’s lame as hell www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/congress-save-americas-pastime-act-would-allow-teams-to-pay-minor-leaguers-less-than-minimum-wage/ Don’t know what this has to do with Ronaldo Hernandez though Just print money like it grows on trees. It is the Democratic way.....pay every minor leaguer $100,000 per year.....money is unlimited....right? Oh, and charge $300 per ticket for MLB games so the Red Sox can pay poor Mookie $360,000,000.....lol Having to make real life choices sucks doesn’t it
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Post by incandenza on Oct 1, 2021 13:32:26 GMT -5
This is not supply and demand in the case of minor league ball players, this is the MLB lobbying Congress to keep these guys from getting paid the bare minimum I for one think teams should treat their minor league players with dignity but that’s just me. I mean you’re trying to develop them, it probably helps to make sure they don’t have to sleep 5 to a hotel room and eat Taco Bell every day. You’d figure a fan of the game and presumably a fan of minor league baseball would like to see players treated correctly, especially when you want them to turn into big leaguers. I’m Glad this team has made strides in that department and it disturbs me that so many people are willing to be complete simps to billionaires when it comes to labor issues in sports. Blows my mind and it’s honestly it’s lame as hell www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/congress-save-americas-pastime-act-would-allow-teams-to-pay-minor-leaguers-less-than-minimum-wage/ Don’t know what this has to do with Ronaldo Hernandez though Just print money like it grows on trees. It is the Democratic way..... pay every minor leaguer $100,000 per year.....money is unlimited....right? Oh, and charge $300 per ticket for MLB games so the Red Sox can pay poor Mookie $360,000,000.....lol Having to make real life choices sucks doesn’t it Teams could afford to do this for every player from Low-A to AAA for roughly the cost of what the Red Sox are paying Garrett Richards this season. Or, if you prefer, for what Rob Manfred makes in a year.
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Post by ramireja on Oct 1, 2021 13:35:32 GMT -5
This convo is definitely veering away from Hernandez. Let's bring it back. Thanks.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Oct 1, 2021 13:45:32 GMT -5
This got off the rails quickly.
Ronaldo is looking like the type of player that allows the team to go out and spend money on the Devers, Correas, or whoever. If he can develop into a Kevin Plawecki type backup catcher who can be counted on the knock some extra base hits and play passable catcher every 5-6 days then the trade was worth it every day.
I like following these kinds of players - like Travis Shaw before him, guys who just kinda do the job every year at each level and before you know it are solid major leaguers. Fingers crossed for him.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,196
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Post by cdj on Oct 1, 2021 14:33:59 GMT -5
This got off the rails quickly. Ronaldo is looking like the type of player that allows the team to go out and spend money on the Devers, Correas, or whoever. If he can develop into a Kevin Plawecki type backup catcher who can be counted on the knock some extra base hits and play passable catcher every 5-6 days then the trade was worth it every day. I like following these kinds of players - like Travis Shaw before him, guys who just kinda do the job every year at each level and before you know it are solid major leaguers. Fingers crossed for him. It was worth it to not have to watch Springs or Mazza anymore (despite springs actually being ok after all lol)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 1, 2021 15:48:31 GMT -5
Hernandez has an interesting bat but that BB/K ratio is kind of ugly and I'd worry that would kill his BA in the majors. Sal Perez was able to make it work and the last couple of seasons the power has really come into being. But he has the glove and he is the best of the type because of his power. Hernandez doesn't have that kind of glove, of course.
But what worries me is that the Sox have a big number of guys who don't work the counts, can be hacktastic and get themselves out and that might be Hernandez down the road.
I looked at Wong wondering if he's a better option and his BB/K was actually worse.
So while I think Hernandez, with some work on his defense, could be a viable major leaguer, he might wind up one of those low OBP hitting catchers with pop. Not a bunch of Johnny Benches in the majors, so he could be a viable option. I just wish there was a way they could work with him on selectivity at the plate so that he could become an average or better major league hitter some day. I mean it seems like he has something of a hit tool.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 1, 2021 17:46:34 GMT -5
Hernandez has an interesting bat but that BB/K ratio is kind of ugly and I'd worry that would kill his BA in the majors. Sal Perez was able to make it work and the last couple of seasons the power has really come into being. But he has the glove and he is the best of the type because of his power. Hernandez doesn't have that kind of glove, of course. But what worries me is that the Sox have a big number of guys who don't work the counts, can be hacktastic and get themselves out and that might be Hernandez down the road. I looked at Wong wondering if he's a better option and his BB/K was actually worse. So while I think Hernandez, with some work on his defense, could be a viable major leaguer, he might wind up one of those low OBP hitting catchers with pop. Not a bunch of Johnny Benches in the majors, so he could be a viable option. I just wish there was a way they could work with him on selectivity at the plate so that he could become an average or better major league hitter some day. I mean it seems like he has something of a hit tool. I'd take a career .342 OBP, not to mention 389 career HRs and one of the greatest catcher's arms in history.
No pressure, Roberto.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 1, 2021 17:54:53 GMT -5
Hernandez has an interesting bat but that BB/K ratio is kind of ugly and I'd worry that would kill his BA in the majors. Sal Perez was able to make it work and the last couple of seasons the power has really come into being. But he has the glove and he is the best of the type because of his power. Hernandez doesn't have that kind of glove, of course. But what worries me is that the Sox have a big number of guys who don't work the counts, can be hacktastic and get themselves out and that might be Hernandez down the road. I looked at Wong wondering if he's a better option and his BB/K was actually worse. So while I think Hernandez, with some work on his defense, could be a viable major leaguer, he might wind up one of those low OBP hitting catchers with pop. Not a bunch of Johnny Benches in the majors, so he could be a viable option. I just wish there was a way they could work with him on selectivity at the plate so that he could become an average or better major league hitter some day. I mean it seems like he has something of a hit tool. I'd take a career .342 OBP, not to mention 389 career HRs and one of the greatest catcher's arms in history. No pressure, Roberto.
I was being facetious with the main point, which is there is a dearth of good hitting catchers in the majors so despite his terrible BB/K ratio he could possibly become a viable offensive catching threat in the majors.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 2, 2021 12:07:54 GMT -5
Just a sort of point of information: don't get bent out of shape about BB/K ratio in itself. We often have this habit of looking at those together when the ratio isn't necessarily the issue, particularly for hitters. We look at it for pitchers because those are, in theory, events pitchers can control. For hitters, I don't think there's a ton of value in looking at a K/BB ratio - you can walk a ton but strike out too much, you can strike out a little but not walk, you can have a great walk ratio and great strikeout ratio while not putting anything in play hard, etc.
Hernandez doesn't strike out a lot - the issue, which has nothing to do with strikeouts, is he just doesn't walk at all. Since he started hitting in July, he has a 18.4% K rate, which is perfectly fine. Even in the first two months it was just 22%. That's all fine. He's just never going to have a particularly high OBP because he doesn't walk at all - 3.1% for the year.
My concern with him is whether his swing will work in the majors. It's very much designed to elevate the ball. might work, but we'll see if MLB pitchers exploit his swing and approach.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 4, 2021 23:17:19 GMT -5
Just print money like it grows on trees. It is the Democratic way..... pay every minor leaguer $100,000 per year.....money is unlimited....right? Oh, and charge $300 per ticket for MLB games so the Red Sox can pay poor Mookie $360,000,000.....lol Having to make real life choices sucks doesn’t it Teams could afford to do this for every player from Low-A to AAA for roughly the cost of what the Red Sox are paying Garrett Richards this season. Or, if you prefer, for what Rob Manfred makes in a year. Minor league clubs have owners. Add up the gate and concessions and subtract the expenses. Just how many fan do you think attend minor league games. If the low minor leaguers don’t like the pay then go get a full time job like the rest of us. You all are. Clueless about economics and why these kids that play minor ball actually play. Example.... I had a conversation with the Iowa Cubs 2B who backed up Ryan Sandburg if he thought he would make it to the majors. He said no and that he was playing for college money. All of you who think you can tell owners to pay $360 million for Betts, or x amount to players who should not have even been drafted make me sick. If a kid wants to play for crumbs that’s on him, so don’t cry about it.!!!!
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Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 5, 2021 0:31:31 GMT -5
Teams could afford to do this for every player from Low-A to AAA for roughly the cost of what the Red Sox are paying Garrett Richards this season. Or, if you prefer, for what Rob Manfred makes in a year. Minor league clubs have owners. Add up the gate and concessions and subtract the expenses. Just how many fan do you think attend minor league games. If the low minor leaguers don’t like the pay then go get a full time job like the rest of us. You all are. Clueless about economics and why these kids that play minor ball actually play. Example.... I had a conversation with the Iowa Cubs 2B who backed up Ryan Sandburg if he thought he would make it to the majors. He said no and that he was playing for college money. All of you who think you can tell owners to pay $360 million for Betts, or x amount to players who should not have even been drafted make me sick. If a kid wants to play for crumbs that’s on him, so don’t cry about it.!!!! Due to a (short sighted and incorrect) supreme court ruling from the 1920s, MLB is allowed to operate as a monopoly/cartel. Conversely, the players Union also operates as a monopoly with all MLB players pressured to join. This creates a business model that is extremely profitable for both team owners and MLB players, but takes advantage of almost everyone else (until recently unpaid interns were often worked to the bone - as one example). Everyone within baseball should make the minimum wage (because it's the law) and it would be nice if everyone made a living wage as it would not only help the players improve in their craft (nobody performs optimally when they're struggling to pay bills) but because it strengthens society as whole when large groups of people aren't dealing with these pressures; when someone struggles financially, it's not just the individual who struggles but often their families, sometimes friends and possibly financial institutions who can't profit off their revenue making power (there are businesses entirely built to profit off those who struggle financially - but that's a different discussion). That being said, there is a very wide chasm between a livable wage and $100,000 (keep in mind they get quite a bit of free food and lodging) and there are many beside the players within professional baseball who struggle due to the system. Relating to the previous mention of players 'choosing' this lifestyle, that's quite fair but it doesn't take into account the inability of humans to accurate forecast future utility (they either don't believe it's as bad as they've heard or they don't believe they will struggle - this is simply human nature). Also, referencing someone from 40+ years ago doesn't apply in today's landscape as having a second job used to be common place, but these days if a player (without star talent) were to split their time with another job then the team would release them as there are plenty of other players willing to devote their entire life to chasing the dream. Because of the immense amount of money devoted to drafting and developing players in the current landscape, teams demand more from the players and have learned they can do so without having to compensate the players for the additional time. A quick thought experiment: If the MLB union and/or MLB chose to set-aside 35mil for players in Low-A, High-A, Double-A and Triple-A; they could give an additional $10,000 to each player, which would be more than enough to put them well into a livable wage. But neither side will ever do this without outside pressure because...why would they? They would rather have the money for themselves. (you can bash the owners for having MORE money all you want, and it would be fair, but keep in mind that (almost) all MLB players were once minor leaguers so they should empathize, but they still don't care enough to fix it)
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Post by Coreno on Oct 5, 2021 0:32:35 GMT -5
A couple points:
- Minor leaguers do have full-time jobs. It's called being a professional athlete. - Player salaries are not an expense for Minor League teams. The MLB teams affiliated with them pay that.
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Post by jmei on Oct 5, 2021 5:50:30 GMT -5
A gentle nudge that the topic of this thread is Ronaldo Hernandez.
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