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4/8-4/10 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on Apr 11, 2022 11:25:59 GMT -5
Do pitchers get blown saves or losses for allowing the ghost runner to score in extra innings? Does it count for RA/9 which messes up their bWAR? This is my biggest gripe with the runner on 2b rule. There is no good way to measure stats in extra innings. It's an unearned run but the run and loss are charged to him.
It's awkward stats-wise but it's only a few games per season for any given pitcher. It seems to me that the only way it could significantly affect somebody's overall stat line is if a team played an unusual amount of extra-inning games and one pitcher gave up a lot of runs to ghost runners, in which case I don't want him out there in extra innings anyway if he can never strand the guy, regardless of what his bWAR says.
EDIT: I think the rule will be gone after this season, too.
So add nonsensical fan perceptions to the problems here. It makes no sense to not want a guy in extra innings just because he allows the zombie runner to score, which can obviously happen very easily even if the guy pitches great.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 11, 2022 11:30:19 GMT -5
Couldn't listen live last night and just heard the end of the game. Once again AC shows how underrated a manager's role is. That had to be a gut decision to put Diekman in to face Judge, Stanton, Gallo. A guy like Dave Roberts would've just looked at the list that his GM had given him before the game of pitchers whose numbers were good vs those hitters and picked the top guy automatically (in this case, that would've been Robles). AC is a master of the human element of managing - putting guys who have struggled right into the fire to allow them to prove they belong; to him, to themselves, to their teammates. When they do so, they are much more confident going forward, which you can't measure with analytics or a Trackman. Not that I disagree about Cora's skill as a manager, but that seemed like a pretty easy call, no? Robles, Brasier, Crawford, and Strahm had all been used already. The only other options were Sawamura, Davis, or Valdez.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 11, 2022 11:32:28 GMT -5
I guess it's similar to different kinds of save situations. There is an unbelievable difference between a blown save coming into a game with the bases loaded, no outs and a 3-0 count compared to a clean inning with a 3 run lead. But I still don't like messing with RA/9 since so many people like bWAR. Saves should just be ignored in favor of WPA.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 11, 2022 11:34:51 GMT -5
Couldn't listen live last night and just heard the end of the game. Once again AC shows how underrated a manager's role is. That had to be a gut decision to put Diekman in to face Judge, Stanton, Gallo. A guy like Dave Roberts would've just looked at the list that his GM had given him before the game of pitchers whose numbers were good vs those hitters and picked the top guy automatically (in this case, that would've been Robles). AC is a master of the human element of managing - putting guys who have struggled right into the fire to allow them to prove they belong; to him, to themselves, to their teammates. When they do so, they are much more confident going forward, which you can't measure with analytics or a Trackman. Not that I disagree about Cora's skill as a manager, but that seemed like a pretty easy call, no? Robles, Brasier, Crawford, and Strahm had all been used already. The only other options were Sawamura, Davis, or Valdez. I assumed Robles would come out to start the 9th against Judge and possibly Stanton; so did Joe and Will. But that's probably nonsensical.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Apr 11, 2022 11:45:01 GMT -5
It's an unearned run but the run and loss are charged to him.
It's awkward stats-wise but it's only a few games per season for any given pitcher. It seems to me that the only way it could significantly affect somebody's overall stat line is if a team played an unusual amount of extra-inning games and one pitcher gave up a lot of runs to ghost runners, in which case I don't want him out there in extra innings anyway if he can never strand the guy, regardless of what his bWAR says.
EDIT: I think the rule will be gone after this season, too.
So add nonsensical fan perceptions to the problems here. It makes no sense to not want a guy in extra innings just because he allows the zombie runner to score, which can obviously happen very easily even if the guy pitches great. Probably I didn't explain my point well enough. I'm saying if the guy gives up those ghost runs (essentially the same as inherited runners) every time he pitches in extra innings, I don't want to see him again in that situation. There are certain relievers that do worse when they come into a jam than when they come in with a clean inning. But you want to bring in the guy who can never strand an inherited runner after many failed attempts? Clearly we need to agree to disagree.
I also don't get why people think that there is no skill in either scoring a runner from second base with nobody out or stranding a runner at second base with nobody out. It's still baseball and both teams have to try to do the same thing. Is it more likely for a run to score in an inning after a leadoff double? Of course. Is it a foregone conclusion? Of course not.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 11, 2022 12:11:01 GMT -5
So add nonsensical fan perceptions to the problems here. It makes no sense to not want a guy in extra innings just because he allows the zombie runner to score, which can obviously happen very easily even if the guy pitches great. Probably I didn't explain my point well enough. I'm saying if the guy gives up those ghost runs (essentially the same as inherited runners) every time he pitches in extra innings, I don't want to see him again in that situation. There are certain relievers that do worse when they come into a jam than when they come in with a clean inning. But you want to bring in the guy who can never strand an inherited runner after many failed attempts? Clearly we need to agree to disagree.
I also don't get why people think that there is no skill in either scoring a runner from second base with nobody out or stranding a runner at second base with nobody out. It's still baseball and both teams have to try to do the same thing. Is it more likely for a run to score in an inning after a leadoff double? Of course. Is it a foregone conclusion? Of course not.
Baseball is a game where randomness plays an outsized role in outcomes. That's why the best baseball teams win about 60% of their games, whereas in football and basketball it's more like 75%.
So a run can score from second due to skill. But a couple of weak ground balls might do it too. Randomness is a part of the game, but that's no reason to increase its significance.
On bringing in Deikman (just to consolidate comments): I suppose keeping Robles in was technically an option, but Cora very rarely uses a 1 IP reliever for more than 1 IP, for better or worse. I'm surprised Joe and Will thought he would in that situation. In any case, I like how the bullpen looks. It's a tiny sample size, but Crawford sure seems impressive so far. Imagine if he came into form as a Whitlock-like weapon this season! But I'm getting ahead of myself...
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 11, 2022 12:50:49 GMT -5
Do pitchers get blown saves or losses for allowing the ghost runner to score in extra innings? Does it count for RA/9 which messes up their bWAR? This is my biggest gripe with the runner on 2b rule. There is no good way to measure stats in extra innings. Good question. Not really fair to give up a SF and a SF and get an earned run against you. Shit... you could come in in the 10th and go K,K, SF, SF and then what? Get a "L" and an earned run? I hope not Well, you can't give up a SF after two K's, but unless you strike out at least 2 guys, there's a very high chance the runner scores.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 11, 2022 15:58:08 GMT -5
New guy to like: Ian Browne @ianmbrowne · 4h Jake Diekman is kind of intense! Do you want to be the closer? “I don’t really give two shits.” Can I quote you on that? “Yeah, do it, I don’t really care.” Shades of Haha, early 70's they couldn't interview Phil Esposito because literally every sentence had 1 or more fword derivatives.
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