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6/3-6/5 Red Sox @ Athletics Series Thread
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 5, 2022 19:38:24 GMT -5
Jed Lowrie played with Mike Timlin, who played with Dave Parker, who played with Willie Stargell, who played with Smokey Burgess, who played with Dutch Leonard, who played with Lefty O'Doul, who played with Babe Ruth.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 5, 2022 19:51:05 GMT -5
Welcome the Red Sox back to .500
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 5, 2022 19:54:19 GMT -5
About dam time
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 5, 2022 19:58:36 GMT -5
Jed Lowrie played with Mike Timlin, who played with Dave Parker, who played with Willie Stargell, who played with Smokey Burgess, who played with Dutch Leonard, who played with Lefty O'Doul, who played with Babe Ruth. awesome. I'll assume it's the Washington Senators' knuckleballer Dutch Leonard rather than Ruth's teammate, a pitcher by the name of Dutch Leonard, whom he played with on the Sox from 1914 - 1919 by the same name. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jun 5, 2022 20:03:13 GMT -5
Well we just played Cincinnati, Oakland and a team that has lost 11 in a row next. Then the Mariners and Oakland again. 76 games against AL East which is 47% of the season! I can not wait to play more games against the looser in the NL Central and AL Central. 76 games is too many against the same teams over, and over, and over, and over…. I get it, but if I'm Chaim and his brain trust, I'm deciding how I'm going to compete against the teams I'm looking up at in my own division. Yeah it's great (meaningless really) to, for now, tenuously hold the #3 WC spot. But the only way you can make up meaningful ground on TOR, TB, and the MFY is to construct your team to beat THEM, and in doing so beating the other teams in WC race should take care of itself. I think they know they need to measure themselves against the top 3 in the AL East - not MIN, ANA, CLE, CWS, etc. Because here is the thing - you have to beat VERY GOOD - GREAT teams in the post-season. I really don't mind play the 76 games in the AL East. If I know I have to beat them to make the post-season, and better the chances of my team's success in the post-season, I'm more motivated to change the make-up of my team's roster to make them better. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2022 20:04:59 GMT -5
76 games against AL East which is 47% of the season! I can not wait to play more games against the looser in the NL Central and AL Central. 76 games is too many against the same teams over, and over, and over, and over…. I get it, but if I'm Chaim and his brain trust, I'm deciding how I'm going to compete against the teams I'm looking up at in my own division. Yeah it's great (meaningless really) to, for now, tenuously hold the #3 WC spot. But the only way you can make up meaningful ground on TOR, TB, and the MFY is to construct your team to beat THEM, and in doing so beating the other teams in WC race should take care of itself. I think they know they need to measure themselves against the top 3 in the AL East - not MIN, ANA, CLE, CWS, etc. Because here is the thing - you have to beat VERY GOOD - GREAT teams in the post-season. I really don't mind play the 76 games in the AL East. If I know I have to beat them to make the post-season, and better the chances of my team's success in the post-season, I'm more motivated to change the make-up of my team's roster to make them better. No way. You build your team to be good and win 60%+ of games. You don't worry about other teams. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jun 5, 2022 20:06:32 GMT -5
Jed Lowrie played with Mike Timlin, who played with Dave Parker, who played with Willie Stargell, who played with Smokey Burgess, who played with Dutch Leonard, who played with Lefty O'Doul, who played with Babe Ruth. awesome. I'll assume it's the Washington Senators' knuckleballer Dutch Leonard rather than Ruth's teammate, a pitcher by the name of Dutch Leonard, whom he played with on the Sox from 1914 - 1919 by the same name. Does Danish fit somewhere in here? |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 5, 2022 20:13:32 GMT -5
I have found a bot that does this on baseball-reference www.baseball-reference.com/oracle/It keeps finding ways to use Phil Niekro and Tommy John to cover a lot of distance |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 5, 2022 20:26:02 GMT -5
I have found a bot that does this on baseball-reference www.baseball-reference.com/oracle/It keeps finding ways to use Phil Niekro and Tommy John to cover a lot of distance Cool feature. I was thinking about the comment about how great writer Roger Angell, who passed away last month at the age of 101, saw Babe Ruth in his prime and saw Shohei Ohtani, so I just tried it with connecting Babe Ruth to Shohei Ohtani. Babe Ruth played with Johnny Murphy (the leading relief ace of his time) on the 1934 Yankees Johnny Murphy played with Cot Deal (who?) on the 1947 Red Sox Cot Deal played with Dick Schofield (Sr - I remember his son on the Angels) on the 1954 Cardinals Dick Schofield Sr played with Jim Slaton (good pitcher on the Brew Crew - I remember him) on the 1971 Brewers Jim Slaton played with Chuck Finley (he was a reliever as a rookie) on the 1986 Angels Chuck Finley played with Albert Pujols on the 2002 Cardinals And of course through early 2021 Albert Pujols was teammates with Shohei Ohtani on the Angels. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jun 5, 2022 20:30:48 GMT -5
I get it, but if I'm Chaim and his brain trust, I'm deciding how I'm going to compete against the teams I'm looking up at in my own division. Yeah it's great (meaningless really) to, for now, tenuously hold the #3 WC spot. But the only way you can make up meaningful ground on TOR, TB, and the MFY is to construct your team to beat THEM, and in doing so beating the other teams in WC race should take care of itself. I think they know they need to measure themselves against the top 3 in the AL East - not MIN, ANA, CLE, CWS, etc. Because here is the thing - you have to beat VERY GOOD - GREAT teams in the post-season. I really don't mind play the 76 games in the AL East. If I know I have to beat them to make the post-season, and better the chances of my team's success in the post-season, I'm more motivated to change the make-up of my team's roster to make them better. No way. You build your team to be good and win 60%+ of games. You don't worry about other teams. But that isn't good enough a lot of the time. See MIN - 2019 - ran away with their weak division to a tune of 101 wins (.623). Their competition for fall glory in the AL wasn't in their division. It was the other top teams in the league. And they got crushed by the MFYs (10-4, 8-2, 5-1) in the ALDS, who in turn lost to HOU 4 games to 2 in the ALCS. Point is if you really want to win, and know you have to go through a gauntlet of better teams, you better try to make your team better in order to better your chances. In places like Boston you don't waste your time hanging WC/division championship banners. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 5, 2022 20:31:43 GMT -5
Pujols is a great connector. Played on 3 different teams in his 40s. His rookie year he was teammates 38 year old Bobby Bonilla, 37 year old Mark McGwire and 35 year old Mike Timlin.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 5, 2022 20:51:41 GMT -5
No way. You build your team to be good and win 60%+ of games. You don't worry about other teams. But that isn't good enough a lot of the time. See MIN - 2019 - ran away with their weak division to a tune of 101 wins (.623). Their competition for fall glory in the AL wasn't in their division. It was the other top teams in the league. And they got crushed by the MFYs (10-4, 8-2, 5-1) in the ALDS, who in turn lost to HOU 4 games to 2 in the ALCS. Point is if you really want to win, and know you have to go through a gauntlet of better teams, you better try to make your team better in order to better your chances. In places like Boston you don't waste your time hanging WC/division championship banners. What huge changes do you make to a 101 win team? That makes zero sense. You want to win a lot because that's the goal. They did it. The randomness of a short playoff series doesn't mean you completely change everything about a 101 win team. There are definitely things you do to build your team to succeed in the playoffs like having more contact hitters than TTO players who can't make contact against great pitchers. But that has nothing to do with matching up with teams in your division. Plus you just said that you need to look at the teams in your own division and Minnesota didn't even play anyone in their own division in the playoffs. And got 101 wins. |
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jun 5, 2022 21:47:43 GMT -5
I have found a bot that does this on baseball-reference www.baseball-reference.com/oracle/It keeps finding ways to use Phil Niekro and Tommy John to cover a lot of distance Cool feature. I was thinking about the comment about how great writer Roger Angell, who passed away last month at the age of 101, saw Babe Ruth in his prime and saw Shohei Ohtani, so I just tried it with connecting Babe Ruth to Shohei Ohtani. Babe Ruth played with Johnny Murphy (the leading relief ace of his time) on the 1934 Yankees Johnny Murphy played with Cot Deal (who?) on the 1947 Red Sox Cot Deal played with Dick Schofield (Sr - I remember his son on the Angels) on the 1954 Cardinals Dick Schofield Sr played with Jim Slaton (good pitcher on the Brew Crew - I remember him) on the 1971 Brewers Jim Slaton played with Chuck Finley (he was a reliever as a rookie) on the 1986 Angels Chuck Finley played with Albert Pujols on the 2002 Cardinals And of course through early 2021 Albert Pujols was teammates with Shohei Ohtani on the Angels. It's nice to think about but by Angell's own admission, he had only vague memories of the Babe (and his "debutante ankles"), as Ruth's prime passed before Angell entered his teens and Ruth's pitching days were over before Angell was born. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jun 5, 2022 22:10:07 GMT -5
But that isn't good enough a lot of the time. See MIN - 2019 - ran away with their weak division to a tune of 101 wins (.623). Their competition for fall glory in the AL wasn't in their division. It was the other top teams in the league. And they got crushed by the MFYs (10-4, 8-2, 5-1) in the ALDS, who in turn lost to HOU 4 games to 2 in the ALCS. Point is if you really want to win, and know you have to go through a gauntlet of better teams, you better try to make your team better in order to better your chances. In places like Boston you don't waste your time hanging WC/division championship banners. What huge changes do you make to a 101 win team? That makes zero sense. You want to win a lot because that's the goal. They did it. The randomness of a short playoff series doesn't mean you completely change everything about a 101 win team. There are definitely things you do to build your team to succeed in the playoffs like having more contact hitters than TTO players who can't make contact against great pitchers. But that has nothing to do with matching up with teams in your division. Plus you just said that you need to look at the teams in your own division and Minnesota didn't even play anyone in their own division in the playoffs. And got 101 wins. No, what I was maintaining was that for the Red Sox their focus should be improving the team to compete with top teams, and not be satisfied with only competing with the #3 WC contenders. It just so happens those top teams in the AL with the exception of HOU come from their division. You said just win 60% and don't worry about other teams. I think we are talking past one another. If the Red Sox were to win 60% of their games this season they would likely snag the #1 WC. To do that they would have to do what I'm saying. The original post had to do with JC#1 stating their preference for not playing so many in-division games. That's fine that they feel that way. I just prefer things the way they are, taking measure against better teams because I'd rather my team's management feel the pressure to improve and excel in a more highly competitive division. If you come out on top or near the top in the AL East I believe it steels you against better competition and sets you up better for success in the post-season. In my opinion excelling in a weak division (like 2019 Twins) can allow a team's management to settle for being the best of a not so great lot. Sure anything can happen if a weaker team gets hot or gets the bounces in the post season. But I'd rather my team not count on luck getting it done. Great when it happens though. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 5, 2022 22:41:02 GMT -5
Cool feature. I was thinking about the comment about how great writer Roger Angell, who passed away last month at the age of 101, saw Babe Ruth in his prime and saw Shohei Ohtani, so I just tried it with connecting Babe Ruth to Shohei Ohtani. Babe Ruth played with Johnny Murphy (the leading relief ace of his time) on the 1934 Yankees Johnny Murphy played with Cot Deal (who?) on the 1947 Red Sox Cot Deal played with Dick Schofield (Sr - I remember his son on the Angels) on the 1954 Cardinals Dick Schofield Sr played with Jim Slaton (good pitcher on the Brew Crew - I remember him) on the 1971 Brewers Jim Slaton played with Chuck Finley (he was a reliever as a rookie) on the 1986 Angels Chuck Finley played with Albert Pujols on the 2002 Cardinals And of course through early 2021 Albert Pujols was teammates with Shohei Ohtani on the Angels. It's nice to think about but by Angell's own admission, he had only vague memories of the Babe (and his "debutante ankles"), as Ruth's prime passed before Angell entered his teens and Ruth's pitching days were over before Angell was born. Ah, I knew Ruth was done pitching by 1918, 3 years before Angell was born, but I didnt know if he followed Ruth when he swatted 60 in 1927. Still, he did see Ruth and he watched Ohtani. How many people can say that? |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 6, 2022 0:05:59 GMT -5
A great sweep (not that there's ever a bad one when you're on the winning side), but almost just as great to get the Angels, the most relevant competition for the third WC spot, when they're absolutely reeling and at their lowest point. Would love to take 3 or 4.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 6, 2022 9:12:31 GMT -5
What huge changes do you make to a 101 win team? That makes zero sense. You want to win a lot because that's the goal. They did it. The randomness of a short playoff series doesn't mean you completely change everything about a 101 win team. There are definitely things you do to build your team to succeed in the playoffs like having more contact hitters than TTO players who can't make contact against great pitchers. But that has nothing to do with matching up with teams in your division. Plus you just said that you need to look at the teams in your own division and Minnesota didn't even play anyone in their own division in the playoffs. And got 101 wins. No, what I was maintaining was that for the Red Sox their focus should be improving the team to compete with top teams, and not be satisfied with only competing with the #3 WC contenders. It just so happens those top teams in the AL with the exception of HOU come from their division. You said just win 60% and don't worry about other teams. I think we are talking past one another. If the Red Sox were to win 60% of their games this season they would likely snag the #1 WC. To do that they would have to do what I'm saying. The original post had to do with JC#1 stating their preference for not playing so many in-division games. That's fine that they feel that way. I just prefer things the way they are, taking measure against better teams because I'd rather my team's management feel the pressure to improve and excel in a more highly competitive division. If you come out on top or near the top in the AL East I believe it steels you against better competition and sets you up better for success in the post-season. In my opinion excelling in a weak division (like 2019 Twins) can allow a team's management to settle for being the best of a not so great lot. Sure anything can happen if a weaker team gets hot or gets the bounces in the post season. But I'd rather my team not count on luck getting it done. Great when it happens though. Is there any reason to think the team is going to sit back and rely on luck though? Last year Bloom went and got Schwarber and was trying to get more RP help than what he did get (Robles & Davis), but found the asking prices to be unrealistically high. If this team is in it there's no reason to think they won't try to get better via trade. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Jun 6, 2022 9:51:54 GMT -5
No, what I was maintaining was that for the Red Sox their focus should be improving the team to compete with top teams, and not be satisfied with only competing with the #3 WC contenders. It just so happens those top teams in the AL with the exception of HOU come from their division. You said just win 60% and don't worry about other teams. I think we are talking past one another. If the Red Sox were to win 60% of their games this season they would likely snag the #1 WC. To do that they would have to do what I'm saying. The original post had to do with JC#1 stating their preference for not playing so many in-division games. That's fine that they feel that way. I just prefer things the way they are, taking measure against better teams because I'd rather my team's management feel the pressure to improve and excel in a more highly competitive division. If you come out on top or near the top in the AL East I believe it steels you against better competition and sets you up better for success in the post-season. In my opinion excelling in a weak division (like 2019 Twins) can allow a team's management to settle for being the best of a not so great lot. Sure anything can happen if a weaker team gets hot or gets the bounces in the post season. But I'd rather my team not count on luck getting it done. Great when it happens though. Is there any reason to think the team is going to sit back and rely on luck though? Last year Bloom went and got Schwarber and was trying to get more RP help than what he did get (Robles & Davis), but found the asking prices to be unrealistically high. If this team is in it there's no reason to think they won't try to get better via trade. No absolutely not - I definitely think Bloom will not sit back. I believe they really are 2-3 right additions away from being right there with TOR and TB, heck maybe even NY as they cool off. And I really do think he will make some significant moves starting within the next few weeks (hopefully some in time for the next batch of games against TOR, TB, and NY). I'm on board with his approach so far. Getting to .500 is the first significant step, especially considering where they were. But like I said I think he's still focused on competing and passing at least 1 or 2 of the teams above them in the AL East standings. |
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jimoh
Veteran
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Post by jimoh on Jun 6, 2022 12:38:15 GMT -5
It's nice to think about but by Angell's own admission, he had only vague memories of the Babe (and his "debutante ankles"), as Ruth's prime passed before Angell entered his teens and Ruth's pitching days were over before Angell was born. Ah, I knew Ruth was done pitching by 1918, 3 years before Angell was born, but I didnt know if he followed Ruth when he swatted 60 in 1927. Still, he did see Ruth and he watched Ohtani. How many people can say that? Ruth pitched part time in his last year with the Sox, then 1or two games in each of his first two seasons in NY. He also pitched one complete in both his age 35 and age 38 seasons. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 6, 2022 12:51:38 GMT -5
Is there any reason to think the team is going to sit back and rely on luck though? Last year Bloom went and got Schwarber and was trying to get more RP help than what he did get (Robles & Davis), but found the asking prices to be unrealistically high. If this team is in it there's no reason to think they won't try to get better via trade. No absolutely not - I definitely think Bloom will not sit back. I believe they really are 2-3 right additions away from being right there with TOR and TB, heck maybe even NY as they cool off. And I really do think he will make some significant moves starting within the next few weeks (hopefully some in time for the next batch of games against TOR, TB, and NY). I'm on board with his approach so far. Getting to .500 is the first significant step, especially considering where they were. But like I said I think he's still focused on competing and passing at least 1 or 2 of the teams above them in the AL East standings. Sale, Paxton, and Taylor, perhaps? A rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Hill, and Paxton, with a bullpen that includes Whitlock, Houck, Wacha, and Taylor sounds pretty good to me.
Of course that's conditional on not having any other injury setbacks. But then again, staying healthy is part of the formula for any team's success. (And I don't mean this to preclude a deadline move either.)
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