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4/8-4/11 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 8, 2013 16:11:27 GMT -5
It seems like Nava always puts together good at bats. I agree, during his hot streaks. He's a nice backup especially now that he can pay first. Good story. I hope he gets enough service time to earn his pension.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 8, 2013 16:24:43 GMT -5
Well, it's at least the most likeable and fun-to-watch Sox team in a decade ... In a decade? How about 5 years. I didn't mind the 08 and 09 seasons either. In 08 we got Jason Bay at the deadline and it was a breath of fresh air from all of the non-sense Manny had been putting the team thru. Got to Gm 7 of the ALCS. If Beckett stays healthy, I think we win it all that year too. Philly had Hamels. Lee and Haladay weren't there yet. Good team in 09 too. Yanks just bought a wagon that year with fa acquisitions of; CC, Teixeira and Burnett. Just didn't finish like they started. I hope we don't ever become a fanbase that thinks it's a wasted season unless we win it all.
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Post by amfox1 on Apr 8, 2013 16:25:37 GMT -5
It seems like Nava always puts together good at bats. I agree, during his hot streaks. He's a nice backup especially now that he can pay first. Good story. I hope he gets enough service time to earn his pension. He already has. You only need 43 days in the majors (days, not games) to be eligible for a full pension. The amount increases with service time. (Only one day is needed for medical.) Pensions begin at age 62. EDIT: Today was Nava's 152nd game (and 9th career home run).
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 8, 2013 16:33:48 GMT -5
Good to know. Hoe he hits a decent level
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Post by Guidas on Apr 8, 2013 16:36:51 GMT -5
Clay Buchholz is a good pitcher, and I'm glad he's on the Sox, but the dude looks like someone who would kidnap my family on our camping trip in the Ozarks ... Also bears a striking resemblance to Deputy Marshall Raylan Givens of "Justified." <great show!>
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 8, 2013 16:39:03 GMT -5
Bailey appears to be throwing very well. There are plenty of teams, such as the Tigers, Brewers and Cubs, which need a closer. He might be a valuable trade chip over the next month or so if he keeps this up. Alternatively, Hanrahan could be moved as a rental for the Tigers or Brewers for a decent young player.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 8, 2013 16:41:34 GMT -5
I've always been a fan of having a two-headed closer for playoff teams. If this team is legitimately in the hunt on July 31, then I don't trade either of those guys unless it's some kind of slamdunk move that helps the team now and in the future.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 8, 2013 16:56:07 GMT -5
Yeah, this looks like the Bailey from a few years ago. He doesn't just "appear" to be throwing well, he is. The fastball slider combo is lights out, the heater coming in at 95+ with movement. This is the guy they thought they were getting last year, he's just a little late to the dance. His stuff is just as good as Hanrahan's primarily because he has more control of it. Either way, it's a very solid bullpen at this point, though another left-hander would be useful.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 8, 2013 16:56:58 GMT -5
Bailey has another year of control. I wouldn't move him unless it was for a big package. I'm a bullpen junky though so I always want more there.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Apr 8, 2013 17:21:50 GMT -5
I've always been a fan of having a two-headed closer for playoff teams. If this team is legitimately in the hunt on July 31, then I don't trade either of those guys unless it's some kind of slamdunk move that helps the team now and in the future. I absolutely loved when the Sox could trot out Oki and Papelbon one day, then Bard and Wagner the next. Games really were over in the 7th.
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Post by nothingball on Apr 8, 2013 17:22:44 GMT -5
I am also very pleased to see us holding our own in the division. It might be premature, but taking 4 of 2 on the road against two of our biggest divisional opponents has sure made the first week of baseball enjoyable.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 8, 2013 17:41:27 GMT -5
I am also very pleased to see us holding our own in the division. It might be premature, but taking 4 of 2 on the road against two of our biggest divisional opponents has sure made the first week of baseball enjoyable. Not sure how it ends up. But, we are poised for a good start. After the 4-2 road trip, 17/20 are at home and the fanbase seems re-energized.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 8, 2013 18:34:10 GMT -5
Well, it's at least the most likeable and fun-to-watch Sox team in a decade ... I don't think that's actually true, but it FEELS that way after last season. It's like if you've been floating around in a life raft for three days drinking your own pee, and then you get rescued and they give you a glass of lukewarm tap water... it would probably be the most delicious thing you've ever experienced.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 8, 2013 19:56:04 GMT -5
Well, it's at least the most likeable and fun-to-watch Sox team in a decade ... I don't think that's actually true, but it FEELS that way after last season. It's like if you've been floating around in a life raft for three days drinking your own pee, and then you get rescued and they give you a glass of lukewarm tap water... it would probably be the most delicious thing you've ever experienced. This is actually what I was saying ... it was a deliberate Game Thread hyperbole. It's *way* too early to actually know how this team ranks in either accomplishment or enjoyability. That said, they could very well be more fun than the 2007 team, even if they don't win a single playoff series. They are a likable set of players and characters and, most importantly, they play a very entertaining brand of baseball, with good defense, strong pitching, and an aggressive demeanor on the basepaths (with enough speed to get away with it). Winning the World Series fills a team with retroactive glow, but it doesn't necessarily mean they were all that fun during the season. In fact, that 2004 team was pretty frustrating up until late July, and then they were the most enjoyable rooting experience ever for me, winning everything and looking increasingly Fellini-esque off-the-field, with dwarves showing up and general oddness surrounding them ... fun times. But, look, they could stumble around starting tomorrow and end up plodding along 4-7 games back the whole year, and that's no fun. I don't really think so, but who knows? It's only been one good week.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 8, 2013 21:02:11 GMT -5
It seems like Nava always puts together good at bats. I agree, during his hot streaks when healthy . Nava was having a nice year last year before playing hurt, clearly improved from his first stint in the majors. At this point he's a productive major league hitter and a nice complementary piece in the right situation (like this roster setup).
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 8, 2013 23:17:31 GMT -5
Too soon to claim that BC is a much better GM than anything Theo has been at least for the past 5 years?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 7:06:17 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2013 8:08:02 GMT -5
Too soon to claim that BC is a much better GM than anything Theo has been at least for the past 5 years? Yes, but the problem with tat comparison in general is we don't know how much of that was Theo and how much of it was Lucchino. The hope is that Larry has been mandated to stay out of it and BC is given a chance to execute his short and long term plans. He's been honest about it since day one, for those paying attention, and he's been holding true all along. He got some luck from the Dodgers, but he needs credit for 2 things with regards to that deal. 1. Simply taking advantage of it 2. Getting 2 legit power armed pitching prospects out of the deal (Huge- I doubt they were just offered up by the Dodgers) I've believed all along this team could contend ths season, but I don't think they should make a major deal, trading away some future, at te deadline should they be in it. They still need to keep the focus on the next 3-6 years and not get overly anxious for this one. Larry needs to be locked in a room without a computer or phone. Way ahead of myself, but it's a fun team to watch thus far.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 9, 2013 9:35:40 GMT -5
I agree, during his hot streaks when healthy . Nava was having a nice year last year before playing hurt, clearly improved from his first stint in the majors. At this point he's a productive major league hitter and a nice complementary piece in the right situation (like this roster setup). Nava is a really streaky hitter. Even ignoring the injury last year, he has played way over his head at times, and at other times, has been not quite replacement level. He doesn't have the glove to push through when he's not hitting, so they'll have to try to manage his phsyche, his swing, and his playing time when he struggles. No longer have the option just to send him down.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 9, 2013 9:37:41 GMT -5
Too soon to claim that BC is a much better GM than anything Theo has been at least for the past 5 years? Yes, but the problem with tat comparison in general is we don't know how much of that was Theo and how much of it was Lucchino. And how much of it was the Duke. Like it or not, Duquette was a very good GM in Boston, and has been very good in Baltimore. Assuming he's learned some additional things about advanced statistics (he always used stats heavily) and perhaps about 40-man roster construction, he should have a shot at a championship in the next 2-4 years.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2013 9:57:24 GMT -5
I've said it many times before, and I'm sure I'll say it again. Duquette hit on more of his high-priced free agents, but he had no idea how to fill out a roster beyond his top players (check out that 1999 club on baseball-reference some time), and his drafting record in Boston was absolutely pitiful. The revisionist history on his has begun to remember him as better than he was because the one thing he did well - sign high priced free agents - happened to line up as the only thing that Theo did poorly.
From 1999 through 2001, Duquette had one of the worst three-year stretches I can remember from a GM. Trading prospects for mediocre veterans, missing on just about every draft pick, terrible relationships with field ownership, not understanding sample size at all... it was a miserable, miserable run there. His one good move during that time was signing Manny Ramirez. But is signing the second best right-handed hitter alive to the second biggest contract in history (at the time) really a sign of skill? I mean, everyone knew that Manny Ramirez was amazing. That's before remembering that the biggest reason they signed Ramirez to such an enormous contract was because Duquette had royally botched the Mike Mussina negotiations.
Between 2001 and 2008, other teams got smarter about locking up their players in their 20's (and have continued to get smarter about it), so Theo had less of a pool of free agent talent. He had his misses, but instead of crippling the team, he did such a good job drafting and developing, and supplementing the roster with quality depth, they still won every year.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Apr 9, 2013 10:11:05 GMT -5
Didn't Duquette also make the trade for Pedro? That was a significant accomplishment. To buttress Dunne's point, take a look at the draft histories of 1999-2001. Surely, major league players were drafted by some teams during this period, but not by the Red Sox, at least not players who amounted to anything.
I think he must have learned a few things since then because, by all account, and by their record, he is doing a better job with the Orioles. He hasn't signed big name free agents to huge contracts. He hasn't traded away their minor league talent. Much of the Orioles' success is due to his predecessor, but he seems to be continuing to operate in the same mode.
The Orioles are a team to be reckoned with this year, I think very much underestimated by most prognosticators, many of whom didn't see them coming last year.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2013 10:28:57 GMT -5
That's a fair assessment. Duquette's trade for Pedro (and signing him to an extension) was by far his signature accomplishment. Drafting Nomar was #2. Letting Mo Vaughn walk was #3. From 1994-98, Duquette did a solid job, but from 99-02, he was an abject disaster in all phases. His one positive move was signing Manny, and I'm just not all that impressed by it. Nearly every team wanted to sign Manny, and the Red Sox simply had more money - it had nothing to do with any skill Duquette had as an evaluator or negotiator.
I don't know what to make of the Orioles. They went 16-2 in extra inning games last year, which doesn't even seem possible. Duquette basically stood pat on them, but I'm willing to believe that it's because he's still building for 2015 and wasn't going to let a flukishly good 2012 season get him off the path. Their Pythagorean record was 82-80 last year, and that's about where I feel like they are.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 9, 2013 11:55:19 GMT -5
Mr. Dunne, I don't disagree with anything you said about Duquette and filling out the 40-man or 25-man rosters. We have to assume he's gotten better (how could he get worse) since then. The news media is also much more savvy about it now, though any GM learning from the media is in trouble.
His other HUGE move was trading Heart-attack Slocumb for Lowe and Varitek. And it's tough to say he did so poorly between 99 and 02 when the team we won with in 04 was largely his including 3/5 of the rotation, plus Nomar, ManRam, Youk, Damon, Nixon, Daubauch, and Tek.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 9, 2013 11:59:59 GMT -5
Nava was having a nice year last year before playing hurt, clearly improved from his first stint in the majors. At this point he's a productive major league hitter and a nice complementary piece in the right situation (like this roster setup). Nava is a really streaky hitter. Even ignoring the injury last year, he has played way over his head at times, and at other times, has been not quite replacement level. He doesn't have the glove to push through when he's not hitting, so they'll have to try to manage his phsyche, his swing, and his playing time when he struggles. No longer have the option just to send him down. I'm not quite down with this assessment. His fielding has actually improved to the point where it's adequate, nothing more nothing less. In Fenway, as the left fielder, he's very acceptable. As for "streakiness", I don't know what that means. Every hitter has their ups and downs. The only study I've seen is from work that was done at BP. I'll see if I can dig that up, but it's not an easy thing to quantify at all. If he does have a track record, I think it has more to do with how he's improved at each level over time. And while the plate discipline is the biggest asset, there is a little pop also. He has some value. The biggest issue is that he's already 30 since his path to the big leagues has been very roundabout. He's had to earn everything and he has. He's a very smart ballplayer and, as others have mentioned, he has some of the best at-bats you'll see, working pitchers till he gets something he wants or they beat him. I don't think he'd make it through waivers as he did the last time he was on them. He's proved his worth and I'm glad he's on the Sox' roster.
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