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7/22-7/24 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 25, 2022 12:48:17 GMT -5
manfred, what can ever convince you that this is exactly the reason Bloom is so focused on prospect depth? There is no other way to build a strong organization. In the alternative scenario where they don't add a bunch of prospects, Xander is still opting out and Devers is still coming up on free agency. They're over the CBT this season so it's not like Bloom has been trying to get by on scotch tape and hope. What other approach to "building or whatever" do you want him to take?
Anyway, like I said above, the young pitching is the replacement for the eminently replaceable guys you keep harping on (JDM, Eovaldi). Vazquez is probably staying on, I think, and without requiring a raise, but if he doesn't there's a strong class of FA catchers, including Wilson Contreras.
Bogaerts is going to be hard to replace. If you just said that you'd be making perfect sense. Nothing else about the players they may lose to free agency says that this team is doomed next season.
Do you really think Henry has the stomach for this?? Im NOT saying your thought process isn’t right analytically. But. I also don’t see Henry able to stomach this especially if the jackles come calling or worse stop calling ( ie corporate sponsors). I truly believe he will have a scapegoat and the manager won’t cut it. Blooms neck is getting exposed more and more I believe. Don't you think Henry knew what he wanted when he hired Bloom? None of this is surprising and it's exactly what Henry wanted.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 25, 2022 12:54:06 GMT -5
Paxton has been recovering from TJ. From the start, this season was affordable because he was not expected to play much. I don't understand criticizing that signing when everything is going exactly according to plan. If he recovers fully, we have an option for two affordable years of a great pitcher. If not, we can opt out and there's no impact to future payrolls. Richards was a one-year deal. It did not go well (although it may have gone better had the Spider Tack crackdown not happened), but from the start it was meant to be a low-risk contract that would not impact the team's ability to compete in future seasons. Perez was another one-year deal. $5 million (iirc) for 0.5 bWAR. Not a great signing. Oh well. It was small money, especially for a SP, and very low risk. Kiké's 2021 was worth 5 bWAR and he's on a 2/15 deal. Even if he doesn't play another game that contract was a massive win. Ottavino's deal brought in Frank German who is a promising relief prospect in AAA, it was also just a one-year deal, and he was alright out of the bullpen. Like, 0.8 bWAR for $7.2 million against the luxury tax is okay value even without German. That's right on the average $9 million / WAR figure I've often seen for the free agent market. JBJ's contract also brought in prospects and has a cheap option (in terms of the luxury tax) for JBJ next year, when the CF FA class will be weak. Yes, Renfroe is having a decent year - even better than last year, actually. Oh well. He wouldn't have been on the team in the first place if Bloom hadn't picked him up off the scrap heap after 2020. Barnes' deal looked like a bargain when it was signed, but it's turned into the ugliest deal Bloom has signed. I do believe this was a physical issue, though. His velocity dipped worryingly at the end of last year and it still hasn't come all the way back. Edit: And Story's at 2.1 bWAR so far. Even with the down offensive year that's a 4.2 bWAR/162 pace. If he keeps this pace up it'll be a good value at $23 million per year and certainly not scraping to break even. Add up all those costs… how much money has been spent on wasted players? How about add up how much is allocated beyond this season. One of the main goals is no more David Price, Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez contracts. I gladly will say "it's not my money" when he wastes money on one or two year deals. I will never say it when these multiple stupid contracts handcuff the team for several years and put them in situations where they are always over the cap and losing international bonus money and first round picks dropping from 10 to 20, with the alternative being that they can't even sign any depth and have to add more prospects to trades to get other teams to pay salary.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,195
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Post by cdj on Jul 25, 2022 13:07:43 GMT -5
Well it’s tough to do much if you have zero payroll flexibility and zero farm system, I think it’s a little fair to give him some slack on the early part of his tenure. Nobody is saying you can’t evaluate him, they just want you to be fair in your evaluations of him and understand he came in inheriting a mess- whether that be financially, organizationally, or even with the Cora/Astros scandal. It was always going to take time to build the infrastructure for a consistently elite team What did he give up for Trevor story while giving up a high draft pick?? How’s Trevor story doing compared to say Javier Baez or Carlos Correa or Suzuki in the outfield? He chose to spend the money that way and combining lost draft pick and salary one can argue story is the worst of those 4 signings? ( Baez could be close) that’s an example where he chose hasn’t been the best. Next year we will be able to evaluate the Paxton signing ($8 million per year) . The Jbj evaluation hasn’t been the best for his salary for this year either.. how’s our closer situation? Or for that matter out two big free agent bullpen acquisitions? All signings I would argue aren’t performing at all yet alone at an average or above average rate Lol, lmao Stopped reading after 2nd sentence. The answer to that is very good btw.
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Post by lostinnewjersey on Jul 25, 2022 13:49:00 GMT -5
Personally, I'm just not interested in patching together a team of free agents. One of the reasons the 2018 team was so fun was that most of the lineup was home-grown (the whole outfield, 3b, ss, catcher). We knew back in 2015 we had talent on the way, and when they had that incredible season, it was very, very satisfying. That's the model I hope they follow going forward, except next time without the post-championship swoon, and the way to avoid that is to keep the pipeline gushing talent. Keep the prospects until you know you're on the brink, and then get the final piece or two you need (as they did with Sale and Kimbrel).
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Post by Guidas on Jul 25, 2022 14:01:56 GMT -5
Personally, I'm just not interested in patching together a team of free agents. One of the reasons the 2018 team was so fun was that most of the lineup was home-grown (the whole outfield, 3b, ss, catcher). We knew back in 2015 we had talent on the way, and when they had that incredible season, it was very, very satisfying. That's the model I hope they follow going forward, except next time without the post-championship swoon, and the way to avoid that is to keep the pipeline gushing talent. Keep the prospects until you know you're on the brink, and then get the final piece or two you need (as they did with Sale and Kimbrel). This sounds a lot like the "True Yankees" argument I heard between 1999 and 2009. Only with one different word.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Jul 25, 2022 14:43:25 GMT -5
Personally, I'm just not interested in patching together a team of free agents. One of the reasons the 2018 team was so fun was that most of the lineup was home-grown (the whole outfield, 3b, ss, catcher). We knew back in 2015 we had talent on the way, and when they had that incredible season, it was very, very satisfying. That's the model I hope they follow going forward, except next time without the post-championship swoon, and the way to avoid that is to keep the pipeline gushing talent. Keep the prospects until you know you're on the brink, and then get the final piece or two you need (as they did with Sale and Kimbrel). But the 2018 pitching staff was almost entirely trades and free agents, except for Barnes and Johnson and Workman at the back end of the rotation or bullpen.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2022 15:17:12 GMT -5
Personally, I'm just not interested in patching together a team of free agents. One of the reasons the 2018 team was so fun was that most of the lineup was home-grown (the whole outfield, 3b, ss, catcher). We knew back in 2015 we had talent on the way, and when they had that incredible season, it was very, very satisfying. That's the model I hope they follow going forward, except next time without the post-championship swoon, and the way to avoid that is to keep the pipeline gushing talent. Keep the prospects until you know you're on the brink, and then get the final piece or two you need (as they did with Sale and Kimbrel). But the 2018 pitching staff was almost entirely trades and free agents, except for Barnes and Johnson and Workman at the back end of the rotation or bullpen. The Red Sox pretty much haven't had a home grown pitching staff since the 1980s when they started Hurst, Clemens, Boyd, and Nipper in the 1986 World Series. Particularly with the Sox' track record of developing pitching the past 15 years they've had very little home grown pitching impact.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 25, 2022 18:39:09 GMT -5
This team tapped out before the ASB. Lots of quit involved with these guys. This is really bizarre. I'd ask people to think before posting tropes from the talking heads. I'm not even sure people are watching the same games I am. Even before the season started, it was going to be a slog. This is one tough division. They've been decimated with injuries on every part of the roster, and saddled with choices made about the virus. It's been tough watching the team lose, but how can it be unexpected? The sum of the parts isn't up to it right now. To attribute everything to quitting is just weird.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 25, 2022 18:56:32 GMT -5
This team tapped out before the ASB. Lots of quit involved with these guys. This is really bizarre. I'd ask people to think before posting tropes from the talking heads. I'm not even sure people are watching the same games I am. Even before the season started, it was going to be a slog. This is one tough division. They've been decimated with injuries on every part of the roster, and saddled with choices made about the virus. It's been tough watching the team lose, but how can it be unexpected? The sum of the parts isn't up to it right now. To attribute everything to quitting is just weird. I understand injuries happen but from Friday to Sunday no one was running hard, horrible defense, this team for whatever reason decided to quit IMO. But we'll see...maybe when they get healthy things will be fine.
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