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Vazquez traded to Astros for Valdez and Abreu
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Post by agastonguay13 on Aug 3, 2022 9:42:20 GMT -5
I wonder if the final straw was when they asked Vazquez if he thinks Bloom believes in this team and he said " I dont know". Traded less then 24 hours after that. Then we got better at 1st and OF. Kept JD and Nate. I really don't understand the what seems to be common practice at this point of insinuating that Chaim Bloom must have an ulterior motive/be stupid/be acting in a retaliatory way towards "x player/person/fanbase". Dude's been nothing but clear about what his intentions are, but because those intentions don't include overpaying for whatever big name player someone is salivating over, he's automatically vilified. Honestly, I include the players in this category, too. They, on the aggregate, came into spring training seemingly upset that there weren't other big moves made. I feel like the Story signing was pushed past the finish line in an effort to appease them, which it did, until he predictably underperformed along with Bogaerts and Martinez (who together account for $65.3m (~27.25%) of the team's $239.3m luxury tax salary. Add into the mix Sale and Barnes, who the organization "did right by" to the tune of $25.6m and $9.375m AAV, respectively, the percentage of payroll spent on some combination of underperforming/injured/both players balloons to approximately 42% of their luxury tax salaries paid. Now, if Bloom came out and said "the players on our roster aren't performing up to our expectations, and it wouldn't be pragmatic to incur the penalties associated with exceeding the cap when we really have no guarantee that they will turn it around this season", the man would be dragged and quartered. But why would you, as an organization, reward players who by all that's visible from the outside looking in aren't holding up their end of the bargain for no reason other than they can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to realize that the reason they're hovering around .500 on August 3rd isn't that Bobby Dalbec and Franchy Cordero seem to be the worst !B platoon in the history of the game, but that Bogaerts, Sale, Martinez, Story, and Barnes are all the highest paid players in their categories on this roster, and at BEST (Bogaerts, Martinez) are not putting up the .OPS that they're capable of and expected to. To me, it's the most pragmatic way of going about this situation to move Vazquez, even if it hurts, because you're not going to have to pay a great deal more for him to come back on a "market value" contract than you would if you coddled him, kept him on a floundering team until he hit free agency, and then signed him for $2m/year less than what his market is. You essentially bought 2 prospects with the difference in cash between a Vazquez hometown discount and his full market value.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 3, 2022 10:32:06 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 10:38:59 GMT -5
I will note that the Steamer projection thinks Valdez is a better hitter than Bobby Dalbec right now. Another player with a worse ROS Steamer projection: Mark Vientos lol I know he's played in the OF this year, but I'm interested to know if he's actually major league playable there.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Aug 3, 2022 12:34:21 GMT -5
He looks 30ish. Shrug Maybe he had a rough life being an Astro.
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 3, 2022 12:52:02 GMT -5
and he hits a homer in his first AB LFG!
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Post by curtisw on Aug 3, 2022 13:44:33 GMT -5
I’m going to miss Vazquez. Very fun player imo who brought a ton of energy and love for the club/game. Think he tended to get a bit underrated but I know that I was more attracted to the way he played and led, he’s not a top of the market catcher really. Even if he could get underrated a little bit I think.
But anyway Valdez seems pretty interesting and it definitely makes me smile that he said hello by bashing a homer right away. The FO could just be right about him being able to seriously hit. Makes me think of how someone brought up last night that the Astros prospects people were bummed and thought they gave up too much. Obviously we are talking beyond smallest of small sample size but it feels like it could be a good omen here. Knocks on wood. Even as someone who isn’t huge on the Vazquez deal, if Valdez and/or Abreu turn into something it will be quite hard to argue it was a bad call. Saying this in light of my opinion that there’s really no way the club makes a serious run into the October lights.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 6, 2022 23:17:19 GMT -5
On mlbtraderumors.com I learned that the Vazquez for Valdez and Abreu deal occurred because an agreed upon deal sending Wilson Contreras to the Astros for Jose Urquidy fell through.
The Astros GM James Click had the deal agreed to but didnt get approval from owner Jim Crane. Dusty Baker was against the deal because he liked Urquidy and thought it could create issues for Contreras not to play regularly as he's trying to maximize his value for pending free agency.
This failed deal probably illustrates the friction that Click has working for Crane who sided with Baker's assessment over his GM's.
Because that deal fell through and Vazquez's market wouldn't be as affected the Astros agreed to send Valdez and Abreu to Boston.
So if Valdez and /or Abreu develop into solid major leaguers then the Sox will have Crane and Baker to thank.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 7, 2022 8:09:24 GMT -5
I only just realized that Urquidy only pitched once for Houston the entire postseason. Wow.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Nov 7, 2022 15:05:23 GMT -5
I only just realized that Urquidy only pitched once for Houston the entire postseason. Wow. If Dusty Baker only thought enough of Urquidy to use him once in 12 post season games, then it looks like he proved the GM correct. If Valdez or Abreu become a productive bat in the MLB for the Red Sox it may end up being a costly two months of Vazquez for the Astros.
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 7, 2022 15:16:59 GMT -5
I only just realized that Urquidy only pitched once for Houston the entire postseason. Wow. If Dusty Baker only thought enough of Urquidy to use him once in 12 post season games, then it looks like he proved the GM correct. If Valdez or Abreu become a productive bat in the MLB for the Red Sox it may end up being a costly two months of Vazquez for the Astros. "I needed a guy that wasn't going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that's tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody's about numbers and stuff, and I can't blame them, no doubt. But that's not what we needed."
Sounds like it was more about Dusty not wanting Contreras than a disagreement about Urquidy.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 7, 2022 15:28:46 GMT -5
If Dusty Baker only thought enough of Urquidy to use him once in 12 post season games, then it looks like he proved the GM correct. If Valdez or Abreu become a productive bat in the MLB for the Red Sox it may end up being a costly two months of Vazquez for the Astros. "I needed a guy that wasn't going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that's tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody's about numbers and stuff, and I can't blame them, no doubt. But that's not what we needed."
Sounds like it was more about Dusty not wanting Contreras than a disagreement about Urquidy.
They could've easily just traded for Contreras, told him he'd be 50/50 between dh and catcher, and not have traded for Mancini
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Nov 8, 2022 12:44:10 GMT -5
Why is Valdez ranked so high? Is his scouting report wrong that we have? If it is accurate I'd like him moved adjusted down a few spots. Personally I look at it as one for one trades. Would you trade Emmanuel Valdez for the following prospects? Valdez for any of the following? Perales, Blaze Jordan, Lugo, Ward, Bonaci, Hickey, Coffey, or Kavadas?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 8, 2022 13:08:40 GMT -5
Why is Valdez ranked so high? Is his scouting report wrong that we have? If it is accurate I'd like him moved adjusted down a few spots. Personally I look at it as one for one trades. Would you trade Emmanuel Valdez for the following prospects? Valdez for any of the following? Perales, Blaze Jordan, Lugo, Ward, Bonaci, Hickey, Coffey, or Kavadas?I'd take Valdez over Lugo, Bonaci, Hickey, and Kavadas for sure. I think his floor is safer than Jordan's, but I'd rather have that lottery ticket. Coffey is too young, and Ward and Perales are different animals for me seeing they're pitchers.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 11, 2022 13:34:26 GMT -5
I think in that group you're talking personal preference. I would not be surprised to see Perales pass him in the official end-of-season ranking coming later this month but I'm curious to hear why you think he should be behind ALL of those guys?
The comparison with Jordan, Hickey, and Kavadas is particularly interesting, as those are all pretty good bats that have significant defensive concerns. Valdez is the only one of the four with any chance of playing some 2B though and his proximity to MLB is valuable. On those three, I have significant concerns about how they'll all handle AA pitching (Lugo as well), whereas Valdez has shown he can hit AAA pitching, at least. And while the upside on some of the others is higher, if you told me you were from 5 years in the future and some of the guys you listed never got past AA, I wouldn't be terribly surprised.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 11, 2022 13:39:33 GMT -5
I think in that group you're talking personal preference. I would not be surprised to see Perales pass him in the official end-of-season ranking coming later this month but I'm curious to hear why you think he should be behind ALL of those guys? The comparison with Jordan, Hickey, and Kavadas is particularly interesting, as those are all pretty good bats that have significant defensive concerns. Valdez is the only one of the four with any chance of playing some 2B though and his proximity to MLB is valuable. On those three, I have significant concerns about how they'll all handle AA pitching (Lugo as well), whereas Valdez has shown he can hit AAA pitching, at least. And while the upside on some of the others is higher, if you told me you were from 5 years in the future and some of the guys you listed never got past AA, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. If that was directed toward me, I should've worded it better, Perales is the guy I'm highest on. I was saying I don't like comparing the ranking of pitchers vs position players, just a personal preference, I think they're completely separate entities.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 11, 2022 14:31:29 GMT -5
Not at you. AlNipper.
Put another way - I wouldn't trade most of the guys in that group for most of the other guys in that group, in a vacuum.
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