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8/9-8/10 Red Sox vs. Braves Series Thread
TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,842
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 11, 2022 9:09:39 GMT -5
I was on team tank during the fake COVID season, but rooting for draft position is a loser move this year. There just isn't a lot of value for them to realistically gain by losing. Best thing is for the players to play well, win some games, and have some positivity heading into the offseason. It would have been more important to get under the LTT than to move up a few spots in the draft. Getting under $230M would have made a material difference in the draft pick comp they'd get for X and Eovaldi. (I don't think it's going to be an issue with JDM.) Being over the LTT also reduces your spending cap in the international draft if you sign a QO FA..
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 9:12:02 GMT -5
I’d like Bloom to consult Johnny Gomes and Triple H before opening the checkbook. Gomes can remind him how much the clubhouse matters. Hunter can remind him that this is *entertainment* — no kid grows up with a Rich Hill poster on his wall. This team has the charisma of a dead skunk.
Losing X seems far more likely, and it means one more of the few charismatic guys.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 11, 2022 9:12:43 GMT -5
Your post prompted me to look this up and I have to say, I didn't realize just how extreme his BABIP luck has been. He's BABIP'ing .380 and has a xwOBA of .322. Verdugo is actually having a better offensive year when you take luck out of the equation. He's got a .333 xwOBA off of a .293 BABIP. I don't see X getting nearly the money that people have discussed. If he does and this year is predictive of his future performance, we'll be glad the RS are not the team paying him. It makes me feel better about Bloom's reported offer to him earlier this season. His caution might be saving us from yet another bad contract seems to never end. I mean yeah the guy that hits into the shift is gonna have a lower BABIP than the guy that knows how to go oppo and hits line drives One of the big issues with statcast data, it's Bradley all over again. Bogaerts destroys shifts, Verdugo struggles. Imagine knocking David Ortiz when he learned to beat the shifts because those hits weren't hard and were normally outs. When in fact it showed Ortiz was a rare hitter that could actually hit the ball where there were no defenders.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 9:25:41 GMT -5
So, other than Verdugo Devers and Story in the field (X?)it will be an entirely new roster Bloom has to build? On the bump weâll have Sale Paxton and Wacha and Houck Whitlock No QO for JD, one maybe for Eovaldi and one for X. So two fourth rounders. Yikes. Crawford, Winckowski, Duran, Arroyo, Hosmer, McGuire, and piles of AAA guys who will likely help out: Wong, Casas, Bello, German, Bazardo, etc. I see things like this going into the offseason: C: McGuire, Wong 1B/DH: Hosmer, Casas, Dalbec 2B: Story SS: ? 3B: Devers, Dalbec LF: Duran CF: ? RF: Verdugo UTIL: Arroyo, Davis SP: Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Crawford, Pivetta RP: Winckowski (could also be SP), Bello (could also be SP), Houck, Schreiber, Davis, Barnes, and two of the following: Taylor, Danish, German, Kelly, Bazardo, Ort, Brasier --- SS and CF seem like the key holes to fill here. I feel good about C (hot take maybe, but I believe it; plus defense is enough here, and as a platoon their bats should be fine too; Wong can even play the infield in a pinch), 1B, 2B, 3B, one corner OF spot, and DH (I don't think we need an everyday DH; just build a good roster and rotate guys through). I want to see us extend Devers, sign a SS (possibly X, possibly not; depends on $), and ideally sign two OF (either two starters or CF and a platoon corner OF). I'd love to see Nimmo and Kiké. Throw in one more decent enough bench guy à la Refsnyder and that's a darned nice roster. I don't think the pitching side needs major additions, and I don't think there will be a ton of cash left over for pitching unless we go well over the tax threshold, but any additional cash can go there. With these additions and average injury luck, I think this would be a great batting team, middle of the road pitching team, and above average defensive team. All in all that's a team that should be playing into October.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 9:36:29 GMT -5
I mean yeah the guy that hits into the shift is gonna have a lower BABIP than the guy that knows how to go oppo and hits line drives One of the big issues with statcast data, it's Bradley all over again. Bogaerts destroys shifts, Verdugo struggles. Imagine knocking David Ortiz when he learned to beat the shifts because those hits weren't hard and were normally outs. When in fact it showed Ortiz was a rare hitter that could actually hit the ball where there were no defenders. Verdugo's xwOBA - wOBA is higher this year than any full or mostly full season in his career. He also seems to be grounding into the shift less this year than in years past: Career: 50.3% GB rate, 33.2% pull, 26.5% oppo. 2022: 47.5% GB rate, 29.4% pull, 29.7% oppo. Heck, he actually has a really balanced spread: ~30% pull, ~30% oppo, ~40% center. I'd be curious to see how much he's even been shifted, and also how much worse his numbers even are against the shift. Meanwhile, Bogie's BABIP is the highest of his career - .375 this year versus .336 for his career. He also tends to have a higher wOBA than xwOBA, as others have pointed out, but his xwOBA - wOBA this year is still the lowest of his career. Expected stats aren't perfect but I can't find a way to look at Verdugo's numbers without seeing bad luck and Bogaerts' numbers without seeing good luck.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2022 9:38:56 GMT -5
The Cubs have certainly been rumored to be a player in the SS market and Xander. If I was running the Cubs I'd stay away from Xander since he's 30 and quite frankly they stink with not a whole lot in the upper minors right now. Is it really the best idea to be paying a presumable premium price for a SS who isn't going to push a team over the edge to competitive in the first 2-3 seasons of his deal and then probably be on the decline by the time they are ready to compete? Then again we've seen plenty of teams not care about that and decide to splurge on players when it really didn't make sense to me at the time but that's just my two cents on it and how I would approach it if I was running the Cubs. If I had to bet I'd say Xander will be a Philly or a Red Sox next year, and only a Red Sox if his market doesn't materialize the way he might want and the Sox can get him back for their price. Any team that signs X is doing so probably with the thought of putting him at SS for a year or two and then converting him to either 3b, 2b, LF, or DH.I still think he's been playing through injuries and it has sapped his power. I think Xander will have some better years than 2022 still ahead of him. The hit tool is still there, and I still think he has his plate discipline. If he gets healthier I think he'll recover most of that lost power. No doubt on the bolded part, I think the forum has done a good job talking about that aspect ad nauseum so I'll leave it at that. My main thought when it comes to the Cubs is they're just not a good team so signing a 30 year old free agent just doesn't seem a good idea if you ask me. I feel like they'd be better served to go after Turner, Swanson or Correa at SS since they're younger and can line up better for the Cubs next competitive team. I agree that I think Xander has some good years ahead of him and is a good bet to age well with his hit tool and that he will hit for more power than he has shown this year and get back to closer to his career norms of 20+ HRs a season for the next 4-5 years. But hey like my previous post said that's never stopped teams before from going out and signing a guy who doesn't make much sense through my perspective and hey what do I know I'm just a casual poster on a Red Sox forum. It'll be an interesting offseason though so at least we have that to look forward to.
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 9:44:12 GMT -5
So, other than Verdugo Devers and Story in the field (X?)it will be an entirely new roster Bloom has to build? On the bump weâll have Sale Paxton and Wacha and Houck Whitlock No QO for JD, one maybe for Eovaldi and one for X. So two fourth rounders. Yikes. Crawford, Winckowski, Duran, Arroyo, Hosmer, McGuire, and piles of AAA guys who will likely help out: Wong, Casas, Bello, German, Bazardo, etc. I see things like this going into the offseason: C: McGuire, Wong 1B/DH: Hosmer, Casas, Dalbec 2B: Story SS: ? 3B: Devers, Dalbec LF: Duran CF: ? RF: Verdugo UTIL: Arroyo, Davis SP: Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Crawford, Pivetta RP: Winckowski (could also be SP), Bello (could also be SP), Houck, Schreiber, Davis, Barnes, and two of the following: Taylor, Danish, German, Kelly, Bazardo, Ort, Brasier --- SS and CF seem like the key holes to fill here. I feel good about C (hot take maybe, but I believe it; plus defense is enough here, and as a platoon their bats should be fine too; Wong can even play the infield in a pinch), 1B, 2B, 3B, one corner OF spot, and DH (I don't think we need an everyday DH; just build a good roster and rotate guys through). I want to see us extend Devers, sign a SS (possibly X, possibly not; depends on $), and ideally sign two OF (either two starters or CF and a platoon corner OF). I'd love to see Nimmo and Kiké. Throw in one more decent enough bench guy à la Refsnyder and that's a darned nice roster. I don't think the pitching side needs major additions, and I don't think there will be a ton of cash left over for pitching unless we go well over the tax threshold, but any additional cash can go there. With these additions and average injury luck, I think this would be a great batting team, middle of the road pitching team, and above average defensive team. All in all that's a team that should be playing into October. That does not look like a great batting team to me. But I do not expect that to stick. I wouldn’t be surprised if they upgrade catcher… maybe Contreras. They can’t go Verdugo, Duran, and CF. Unless that last guy is Trout, that is punchless.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 11, 2022 9:52:42 GMT -5
One of the big issues with statcast data, it's Bradley all over again. Bogaerts destroys shifts, Verdugo struggles. Imagine knocking David Ortiz when he learned to beat the shifts because those hits weren't hard and were normally outs. When in fact it showed Ortiz was a rare hitter that could actually hit the ball where there were no defenders. Verdugo's xwOBA - wOBA is higher this year than any full or mostly full season in his career. He also seems to be grounding into the shift less this year than in years past: Career: 50.3% GB rate, 33.2% pull, 26.5% oppo. 2022: 47.5% GB rate, 29.4% pull, 29.7% oppo. Heck, he actually has a really balanced spread: ~30% pull, ~30% oppo, ~40% center. I'd be curious to see how much he's even been shifted, and also how much worse his numbers even are against the shift. Meanwhile, Bogie's BABIP is the highest of his career - .375 this year versus .336 for his career. He also tends to have a higher wOBA than xwOBA, as others have pointed out, but his xwOBA - wOBA this year is still the lowest of his career. Expected stats aren't perfect but I can't find a way to look at Verdugo's numbers without seeing bad luck and Bogaerts' numbers without seeing good luck. Bogaerts is for some reason at a career high in shift percentage and he's killed shifts his entire career, this year wOBA .356 no shifts, .375 with shifts. Shows me the rare ability to actually control his hitting and find holes in D, those are usually weak hit balls though. Verdugo is the opposite, only 2021 did shifts not hurt him in the last 5 years .315 no shifts, .289 with shifts For years we had this debate with Jackie Bradley, an increase in shifts killed him. Expected results were higher because he hit the ball hard, yet right at defenders. Like most hitters they can't control were the ball goes. I see some luck in Verdugo's numbers, his 2021 outlier reduced his shifts from 40 plus percent to 30 plus percent this year. Yet as results have shifted back to career numbers, that likely goes back up.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 10:01:34 GMT -5
Crawford, Winckowski, Duran, Arroyo, Hosmer, McGuire, and piles of AAA guys who will likely help out: Wong, Casas, Bello, German, Bazardo, etc. I see things like this going into the offseason: C: McGuire, Wong 1B/DH: Hosmer, Casas, Dalbec 2B: Story SS: ? 3B: Devers, Dalbec LF: Duran CF: ? RF: Verdugo UTIL: Arroyo, Davis SP: Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Crawford, Pivetta RP: Winckowski (could also be SP), Bello (could also be SP), Houck, Schreiber, Davis, Barnes, and two of the following: Taylor, Danish, German, Kelly, Bazardo, Ort, Brasier --- SS and CF seem like the key holes to fill here. I feel good about C (hot take maybe, but I believe it; plus defense is enough here, and as a platoon their bats should be fine too; Wong can even play the infield in a pinch), 1B, 2B, 3B, one corner OF spot, and DH (I don't think we need an everyday DH; just build a good roster and rotate guys through). I want to see us extend Devers, sign a SS (possibly X, possibly not; depends on $), and ideally sign two OF (either two starters or CF and a platoon corner OF). I'd love to see Nimmo and Kiké. Throw in one more decent enough bench guy à la Refsnyder and that's a darned nice roster. I don't think the pitching side needs major additions, and I don't think there will be a ton of cash left over for pitching unless we go well over the tax threshold, but any additional cash can go there. With these additions and average injury luck, I think this would be a great batting team, middle of the road pitching team, and above average defensive team. All in all that's a team that should be playing into October. That does not look like a great batting team to me. But I do not expect that to stick. I wouldn’t be surprised if they upgrade catcher… maybe Contreras. They can’t go Verdugo, Duran, and CF. Unless that last guy is Trout, that is punchless. Lol your standards are very high. Here's what an order might look like:
1. Nimmo 2. Bogaerts 3. Devers 4. Verdugo
5. Story 6. Hosmer 7. Hernandez
8. Casas
9. McGuire
Let's just take their career wRC+ and assume they match that. Some guys, like Devers, will very likely go above this, and others may go below, but it feels fine for napkin math. For the sake of argument, let's give Casas a 100 wRC+.
1. 132 2. 117 3. 126 4. 106
5. 110
6. 107 7. 99 8. 100 (Casas) 9. 76
If you just do a straight average of that over 1-9, which doesn't take into account the fact that guys earlier in the order will hit more on average and therefore impact the team averages more, and which doesn't take into account beneficial platoon splits at positions like catcher, this still gives an average wRC+ of 108. That would be good for 8th in MLB, but I'd be more bullish on this team than that. I think the odds of guys like Devers and Bogaerts outperforming their career wRC+ are higher than guys like Story or Hernandez underperforming theirs. For context, the Mets are 3rd in wRC+ this year and they're at 114. This team could easily have a top 5 offense.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 10:05:05 GMT -5
Verdugo's xwOBA - wOBA is higher this year than any full or mostly full season in his career. He also seems to be grounding into the shift less this year than in years past: Career: 50.3% GB rate, 33.2% pull, 26.5% oppo. 2022: 47.5% GB rate, 29.4% pull, 29.7% oppo. Heck, he actually has a really balanced spread: ~30% pull, ~30% oppo, ~40% center. I'd be curious to see how much he's even been shifted, and also how much worse his numbers even are against the shift. Meanwhile, Bogie's BABIP is the highest of his career - .375 this year versus .336 for his career. He also tends to have a higher wOBA than xwOBA, as others have pointed out, but his xwOBA - wOBA this year is still the lowest of his career. Expected stats aren't perfect but I can't find a way to look at Verdugo's numbers without seeing bad luck and Bogaerts' numbers without seeing good luck. Bogaerts is for some reason at a career high in shift percentage and he's killed shifts his entire career, this year wOBA .356 no shifts, .375 with shifts. Shows me the rare ability to actually control his hitting and find holes in D, those are usually weak hit balls though. Verdugo is the opposite, only 2021 did shifts not hurt him in the last 5 years .315 no shifts, .289 with shifts For years we had this debate with Jackie Bradley, an increase in shifts killed him. Expected results were higher because he hit the ball hard, yet right at defenders. Like most hitters they can't control were the ball goes. I see some luck in Verdugo's numbers, his 2021 outlier reduced his shifts from 40 plus percent to 30 plus percent this year. Yet as results have shifted back to career numbers, that likely goes back up. Very interesting post! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 10:07:07 GMT -5
That does not look like a great batting team to me. But I do not expect that to stick. I wouldn’t be surprised if they upgrade catcher… maybe Contreras. They can’t go Verdugo, Duran, and CF. Unless that last guy is Trout, that is punchless. Lol your standards are very high. Here's what an order might look like:
1. Nimmo 2. Bogaerts 3. Devers 4. Verdugo
5. Story 6. Hosmer 7. Hernandez
8. Casas
9. McGuire
Let's just take their career wRC+ and assume they match that. Some guys, like Devers, will very likely go above this, and others may go below, but it feels fine for napkin math. For the sake of argument, let's give Casas a 100 wRC+.
1. 132 2. 117 3. 126 4. 106
5. 110
6. 107 7. 99 8. 100 (Casas) 9. 76
If you just do a straight average of that over 1-9, which doesn't take into account the fact that guys earlier in the order will hit more on average and therefore impact the team averages more, and which doesn't take into account beneficial platoon splits at positions like catcher, this still gives an average wRC+ of 108. That would be good for 8th in MLB, but I'd be more bullish on this team than that. I think the odds of guys like Devers and Bogaerts outperforming their career wRC+ are higher than guys like Story or Hernandez underperforming theirs. For context, the Mets are 3rd in wRC+ this year and they're at 114. This team could easily have a top 5 offense.
Well, you didn’t have X. I was going on who you penciled in. I don’t quite get the Nimmo love. He’ll be 30 next year, and this year is only the second time in his career he plays over 100 games. Haven’t we had enough of guys who are constantly injured?
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Post by incandenza on Aug 11, 2022 10:11:51 GMT -5
That does not look like a great batting team to me. But I do not expect that to stick. I wouldn’t be surprised if they upgrade catcher… maybe Contreras. They can’t go Verdugo, Duran, and CF. Unless that last guy is Trout, that is punchless. Lol your standards are very high. Here's what an order might look like:
1. Nimmo 2. Bogaerts 3. Devers 4. Verdugo
5. Story 6. Hosmer 7. Hernandez
8. Casas
9. McGuire
Let's just take their career wRC+ and assume they match that. Some guys, like Devers, will very likely go above this, and others may go below, but it feels fine for napkin math. For the sake of argument, let's give Casas a 100 wRC+.
1. 132 2. 117 3. 126 4. 106
5. 110
6. 107 7. 99 8. 100 (Casas) 9. 76
If you just do a straight average of that over 1-9, which doesn't take into account the fact that guys earlier in the order will hit more on average and therefore impact the team averages more, and which doesn't take into account beneficial platoon splits at positions like catcher, this still gives an average wRC+ of 108. That would be good for 8th in MLB, but I'd be more bullish on this team than that. I think the odds of guys like Devers and Bogaerts outperforming their career wRC+ are higher than guys like Story or Hernandez underperforming theirs. For context, the Mets are 3rd in wRC+ this year and they're at 114. This team could easily have a top 5 offense.
But bench players get at-bats and starters get injured. For context, the 9 guys with the most PAs on this year's team have a simple average of a 104 wRC+ but the team as a whole is at 101. And Franchy is among those 9 guys with the most PAs.
I think a reasonable quick-and-dirty estimate would be to knock 5 points off your 108 wRC+ average, to account for both backups getting playing time and not all starters being healthy for the full season.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 10:22:12 GMT -5
Lol your standards are very high. Here's what an order might look like:
1. Nimmo 2. Bogaerts 3. Devers 4. Verdugo
5. Story 6. Hosmer 7. Hernandez
8. Casas
9. McGuire
Let's just take their career wRC+ and assume they match that. Some guys, like Devers, will very likely go above this, and others may go below, but it feels fine for napkin math. For the sake of argument, let's give Casas a 100 wRC+.
1. 132 2. 117 3. 126 4. 106
5. 110
6. 107 7. 99 8. 100 (Casas) 9. 76
If you just do a straight average of that over 1-9, which doesn't take into account the fact that guys earlier in the order will hit more on average and therefore impact the team averages more, and which doesn't take into account beneficial platoon splits at positions like catcher, this still gives an average wRC+ of 108. That would be good for 8th in MLB, but I'd be more bullish on this team than that. I think the odds of guys like Devers and Bogaerts outperforming their career wRC+ are higher than guys like Story or Hernandez underperforming theirs. For context, the Mets are 3rd in wRC+ this year and they're at 114. This team could easily have a top 5 offense.
But bench players get at-bats and starters get injured. For context, the 9 guys with the most PAs on this year's team have a simple average of a 104 wRC+ but the team as a whole is at 101. And Franchy is among those 9 guys with the most PAs.
I think a reasonable quick-and-dirty estimate would be to knock 5 points off your 108 wRC+ average, to account for both backups getting playing time and not all starters being healthy for the full season.
This is fair to consider, but the bench guys on this team getting the most playing time would be Arroyo (108 wRC+ 2022), Duran (86 wRC+ 2022), and Wong (89 wRC+ career in a small sample; probably McGuire esque). If the contributions from the bench players in this disaster of a injury-plagued season only knocked 3 wRC+ off the starters' contribution, -3 feels like the absolute worst case for next year (again, assuming they make the additions I called out and get average injury luck). A 105-107 wRC+ would still be good for 8th or 9th.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 11, 2022 10:27:12 GMT -5
Lol your standards are very high. Here's what an order might look like:
1. Nimmo 2. Bogaerts 3. Devers 4. Verdugo
5. Story 6. Hosmer 7. Hernandez
8. Casas
9. McGuire
Let's just take their career wRC+ and assume they match that. Some guys, like Devers, will very likely go above this, and others may go below, but it feels fine for napkin math. For the sake of argument, let's give Casas a 100 wRC+.
1. 132 2. 117 3. 126 4. 106
5. 110
6. 107 7. 99 8. 100 (Casas) 9. 76
If you just do a straight average of that over 1-9, which doesn't take into account the fact that guys earlier in the order will hit more on average and therefore impact the team averages more, and which doesn't take into account beneficial platoon splits at positions like catcher, this still gives an average wRC+ of 108. That would be good for 8th in MLB, but I'd be more bullish on this team than that. I think the odds of guys like Devers and Bogaerts outperforming their career wRC+ are higher than guys like Story or Hernandez underperforming theirs. For context, the Mets are 3rd in wRC+ this year and they're at 114. This team could easily have a top 5 offense.
Well, you didn’t have X. I was going on who you penciled in. I don’t quite get the Nimmo love. He’ll be 30 next year, and this year is only the second time in his career he plays over 100 games. Haven’t we had enough of guys who are constantly injured? Nimmo's fragility is a knock on him that would be priced in. A 132 wRC+ CF that was durable enough to count on playing every day would be really darned expensive. Yet another argument for not having a dedicated DH and cycling guys through to help keep them healthy and fresh. Edit: And if not X it would probably be Correa/Turner/Swanson, so regardless you'll have a good contributor there.
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 10:29:34 GMT -5
Well, you didn’t have X. I was going on who you penciled in. I don’t quite get the Nimmo love. He’ll be 30 next year, and this year is only the second time in his career he plays over 100 games. Haven’t we had enough of guys who are constantly injured? Nimmo's fragility is a knock on him that would be priced in. A 132 wRC+ CF that was durable enough to count on playing every day would be really darned expensive. Yet another argument for not having a dedicated DH and cycling guys through to help keep them healthy and fresh. I don’t care about the price. I care about another year when plan A is out the window after 50 games. The discount gets spent on the other OF you need to keep around for when you lose this one. I’d rather get, you know, a fully functional one?
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ematz1423
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Posts: 5,504
Member is Online
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2022 10:31:27 GMT -5
Well, you didn’t have X. I was going on who you penciled in. I don’t quite get the Nimmo love. He’ll be 30 next year, and this year is only the second time in his career he plays over 100 games. Haven’t we had enough of guys who are constantly injured? Nimmo's fragility is a knock on him that would be priced in. A 132 wRC+ CF that was durable enough to count on playing every day would be really darned expensive. Yet another argument for not having a dedicated DH and cycling guys through to help keep them healthy and fresh. I don't "love" Nimmo but I do like him and perhaps I shouldn't speak for others but the clamoring for Nimmo at least for me is because when I go look at free agent outfield options it's basically Judge and Nimmo and then a drop off to a whole lot of nothing. I'm not even counting Judge as an option as I don't see that happening at all, perhaps I'm wrong there. I'm of the mindset they need a guaranteed starting caliber OF and if it's a CF even better. Nimmo is the only option outside of a trade and it's obviously hard to ever predict a trade so I'm not going to predict one even though I know it is a possibility and perhaps a strong one.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 11, 2022 10:35:38 GMT -5
What does Nimmo go for?
Bloom can't let Bogaerts walk away after not even trying to trade him right? What does he go for?
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 11, 2022 10:37:46 GMT -5
Nimmo's fragility is a knock on him that would be priced in. A 132 wRC+ CF that was durable enough to count on playing every day would be really darned expensive. Yet another argument for not having a dedicated DH and cycling guys through to help keep them healthy and fresh. I don’t care about the price. I care about another year when plan A is out the window after 50 games. The discount gets spent on the other OF you need to keep around for when you lose this one. I’d rather get, you know, a fully functional one? Just curious if you don’t like signing Nimmo what OF pick up would make you happy? Not a generic “awesome 25 year old who never gets hurt” a specific guy, because there’s very few who fit this perfect mold you’re looking for and far fewer whose teams actually might be open to trading them.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 11, 2022 10:39:42 GMT -5
Nimmo's fragility is a knock on him that would be priced in. A 132 wRC+ CF that was durable enough to count on playing every day would be really darned expensive. Yet another argument for not having a dedicated DH and cycling guys through to help keep them healthy and fresh. I don’t care about the price. I care about another year when plan A is out the window after 50 games. The discount gets spent on the other OF you need to keep around for when you lose this one. I’d rather get, you know, a fully functional one? I'm actually intrigued by a Nimmo and Hernandez combo. Nimmo hits RHP better, Hernandez kills LHP. As long as you add another OF also.
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Post by seamus on Aug 11, 2022 10:40:25 GMT -5
Trading for Bryan Reynolds is probably the splashiest non-Nimmo option I can think of. Mike Yaz would be an interesting trade candidate, too, if they prefer to spend big at shortstop and on pitching in free agency.
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 10:46:55 GMT -5
I don’t care about the price. I care about another year when plan A is out the window after 50 games. The discount gets spent on the other OF you need to keep around for when you lose this one. I’d rather get, you know, a fully functional one? Just curious if you don’t like signing Nimmo what OF pick up would make you happy? Not a generic “awesome 25 year old who never gets hurt” a specific guy, because there’s very few who fit this perfect mold you’re looking for and far fewer whose teams actually might be open to trading them. Don’t know. I am not the GM, though. Sometimes there is no great solution. If Kiké is healthy, I likely put him back, if only for his glove. Maybe move Verdugo there, endure subpar D, get new corner OFs. Again, sometimes there are no good solutions. When you have to fill slots at catcher, DH, potentially middle infield, and a few OF, you are probably going to be disappointed in what your search yields in some of those areas. Maybe you accept the loss in CF and sign Contreras at catcher to be above average there, hoping that evens out.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2022 10:47:32 GMT -5
I don’t care about the price. I care about another year when plan A is out the window after 50 games. The discount gets spent on the other OF you need to keep around for when you lose this one. I’d rather get, you know, a fully functional one? I'm actually intrigued by a Nimmo and Hernandez combo. Nimmo hits RHP better, Hernandez kills LHP. As long as you add another OF also. Nimmo is a career .261/.371/.409 hitter vs lefties so I don't think the combo play would be for Hernandez/Nimmo to platoon it'd be for Hernandez to platoon with Verdugo if he's still on the team or maybe even Duran depending on what he can show the next couple months. Though Duran needs to be tried in LF to see if he's any better over there than CF.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 11, 2022 10:48:37 GMT -5
Interesting that no one ever talks about bringing Renfroe back...
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 11, 2022 10:49:52 GMT -5
Just curious if you don’t like signing Nimmo what OF pick up would make you happy? Not a generic “awesome 25 year old who never gets hurt” a specific guy, because there’s very few who fit this perfect mold you’re looking for and far fewer whose teams actually might be open to trading them. Don’t know. I am not the GM, though. Sometimes there is no great solution. If Kiké is healthy, I likely put him back, if only for his glove. Maybe move Verdugo there, endure subpar D, get new corner OFs. Again, sometimes there are no good solutions. When you have to fill slots at catcher, DH, potentially middle infield, and a few OF, you are probably going to be disappointed in what your search yields in some of those areas. Maybe you accept the loss in CF and sign Contreras at catcher to be above average there, hoping that evens out. Sorry but you point to not wanting Nimmo due to health and that you don't care about the price but then you say if Hernandez (a 30 year old who has only played 51 games this season due to a hip injury) is healthy put him back in there? That really doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by manfred on Aug 11, 2022 10:54:15 GMT -5
Don’t know. I am not the GM, though. Sometimes there is no great solution. If Kiké is healthy, I likely put him back, if only for his glove. Maybe move Verdugo there, endure subpar D, get new corner OFs. Again, sometimes there are no good solutions. When you have to fill slots at catcher, DH, potentially middle infield, and a few OF, you are probably going to be disappointed in what your search yields in some of those areas. Maybe you accept the loss in CF and sign Contreras at catcher to be above average there, hoping that evens out. Sorry but you point to not wanting Nimmo due to health and that you don't care about the price but then you say if Hernandez (a 30 year old who has only played 51 games this season due to a hip injury) is healthy put him back in there? That really doesn't make much sense to me. I said if he was healthy. He’s also likely be available on a very cheap, short term contract. And as I said, I’d redirect my money to a different position. As folks have said, there are 2 FAs — Judge and Nimmo. Why spend on the 2nd best option if he is not who I want?
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