steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Apr 12, 2013 18:30:01 GMT -5
It seems quite likely that Theo, Ben and our international scouting department have really "missed" badly on, at least, four Cuban defectors over the last 2+ years.
I watched another sterling report today on TV about what will the Dodgers do with their young phenom Yasiel Puig. They were stating that with Ethier, Kemp, and Crawford they had no room and that he was so impressive and ready.
Reports out of the Cub's spring training were saying how great Soler was in Arizona. That he had immense power, was a solid outfielder, and his other tools were also above average. Chapman has been "lights out", of course, reaching triple digits and totally dominating hitters. And of course Cepedes has looked great in Oakland's outfield and in their line-up.
My point is that with our resources, why have we not signed, at least, one of these kids before the new CBA kicked in. Did we just not see them as worth the dollars? Did our scouts think they weren't special talents? I remember the debate on this site about Cepedes and Soler. We throw outlandish money at Dice-K and get skittish?
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Post by bluechip on Apr 12, 2013 19:18:16 GMT -5
I believe that most front offices felt that the money spent on Puig was incredibly stupid when it happened, and until Puig has strung together multiple productive seasons in the majors, I will not be ready to say that they blew it with him. Cespedes would have been a great signing, but they did not have to money available at the time (wanting to get below the tax threshold). One a side note, the international salary cap would not affected Cespedes.
I would have loved for the team to have signed Soler though.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Apr 12, 2013 20:04:42 GMT -5
Meh. I'm not really sure what the point of this is. None of the Red Sox Cuban signings compare to the guys listed. They were for small money comparatively. I'm sure the Red Sox knew they were relative long shots. Finding a few short-money international signings that don't work doesn't say anything about the teams ability scout Cubans. All this says is they have decided to shy away from the big money cuban signings. As bluechip points out regarding Cespedes, this could have been due to limited resources. As for Soler and Puig - its still a long way until they prove to be worth the contracts they signed. There really isn't much to see here. It reminds me of complaining about all the good players taken after a certain pick in the draft. You can always do it and it is completely meaningless.
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Post by mredsox89 on Apr 12, 2013 20:05:48 GMT -5
Chapman is a high priced RP who doesn't appear to have any desire to start. I have no problem with the Sox not having a $6M a year RP who has an opt out available next year.
Puig's contract is ludicrous, and as bluechip said, he's going to have to become a legit bat in the bigs for it even to be considered a decent deal.
The problem is that they had too much $ currently on their roster, especially with Gonzalez/Crawford, that if they wanted to have any type of salary room going forward they couldn't take a $30M lottery ticket on any of the other Cuban guys, considering they were getting MLB deals. I cant possibly imagine they thought there was any chance they'd be able to get out of the Gonzalez/Beckett/Crawford deals, and therefore they had to work with what they had
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Post by jmei on Apr 12, 2013 21:31:53 GMT -5
It seems quite likely that Theo, Ben and our international scouting department have really "missed" badly on, at least, four Cuban defectors over the last 2+ years. Funny, when I read this intro to your post, I thought it was going to be about the $750K wasted on Adalberto Ibarra, the $350K wasted on Jorge Padron, and the underwhelming performances of Juan Carlos Linares ($750K) and Jose Iglesias ($6.25m) to date. Paying eight-figure bonuses to amateur players is always risky. There's a reason every major American sport utilizes a draft to introduce new players into the league-- pure free market bidding for amateur players that teams have limited information on often leads to exorbitant payouts for high-risk talent. Evaluating it the way you have here (why didn't they sign X?) is always prone to hindsight bias, especially since all these guys are still oozing potential but have yet to see sustained major league playing time. Time will tell if these guys were worth the contracts they ended up receiving, but I really think there should be little to no outrage at the front office for not signing them. |
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Post by wskeleton76 on Apr 12, 2013 21:33:17 GMT -5
At least we signed Jose Iglesias.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 12, 2013 21:35:12 GMT -5
I seem to remember everyone saying Dice-k was going to be some amazing pitcher.... so you cant blame the sox.....
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 12, 2013 21:39:20 GMT -5
Personally, I hate "why didn't the Red Sox sign Player X who signed with Team Y?" debates. Even with the players the team is interested in, they can't sign all of them.
Plus what everyone else said.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 13, 2013 7:28:50 GMT -5
This discussion conjures up memories of the drama that unfolded eleven years ago with Jose Contreras. Theo and his entourage ventured down to Nicaragua where Contreras was holed up, rented out the entire hotel where he was staying so the Yankees had to rent somewhere else. We all know how that ended. Jose has kicked around with several teams but has not been the player we all expected when that spy novel scenario took place.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Apr 13, 2013 8:52:31 GMT -5
Great comments. I acknowledge that Puig or Soler could be busts. The other two are not. I'm just saying I'd love to have one them (Puig or Soler) in our system. Most of us on this site are really interested in prospects. I love watching and following kids with this kind of potential.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Apr 13, 2013 9:11:02 GMT -5
I don't see much bust in Puig and Soler is certainly good with the bat, but I do agree with Chris on looking back.
That said, with the draft being somewhat equalized, Fox local money jumping everywhere so almost no one of consequence gets free, looking forward international and prospect development efficiency may be the only organizational differentiator.
Except of course, luck.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Apr 13, 2013 10:56:54 GMT -5
Spending 30 million dollars on very talented, rather raw, 20 year old ball-players with no experience outside of an island nation that is stuck in a 30 year time warp ( one of whom had not played organized baseball in over a year) is an extremly risky proposition and one that likely has ramifications throughout the organization. As a die-hard Sox fan who follows the system closely and who happens to be Cuban, I'd love to have either Puig or Soler but honestly I would have had serious doubts when they signed. Lets remeber the previuos young power-hitting phenom from Cuba was Dayan Viciedo, a certainly useful guy to have but some one who is a solid second division regular.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 13, 2013 11:30:04 GMT -5
And off course Theo would move on and start signing those types.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 17:36:45 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that for several years the Red Sox international department was a mess. They spent millions of dollars on players like Almanzar and Tejada who didn't pan out while the Yankees turned out Ivan Nova, Montero and Sanchez. Not to mention the Matsusaka signing which was clearly a dissapointment. Today, the Red Sox only have Tazawa and Doubront to show for their extensive and expensive international forray.
The Red Sox reacted by firing their international director, promoting their head of DR operations. Hopefully this fixes the problem. Most of the prospects signed after Shipley was fired aren't in full season ball yet, so others can probably evaluate the change better than I.
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Post by GyIantosca on Apr 13, 2013 19:36:21 GMT -5
Theo signed Soler with the Cubs. I don't blame Ben for any of the recent cuban signings. He took over late in the offseason last year and the salary structure had his hands tied. Chapman got a ton of money.
I actually like the stability in our organization. They have a gem in Amiel and I am a little worried when the embargo ends with Theo he is gonna run over here and start giving promotions to our guys.
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