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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 1, 2022 13:05:35 GMT -5
I just can't pencil story in as the opening day SS. Sox have plenty of money to spend, arguably more than anyone else this offseason. SS is by far the strongest position available in FA this year. If you let Xander go without replacing him to slide story over, who do they go spend money on? Maybe Nimmo, but that's a worse team on paper than they are right now. I guess they could sign nimmo and rafi to an extension with the money saved but then they'd just be left another big hole at 2nd and in the lineup. But who do you get on a one or two year deal? I'm assuming that they aren't committing to a long term SS because of Mayer. They have a ton of money coming off the books so they need to spend something. But they certainly aren't going to throw money around and they probably aren't going to "overpay" on what they feel a player is worth. They're doing great lip service when it comes to him lately but their actions speak otherwise. I expect Xander to end up in Philly St Louis or New York next year and Boston to shift Story to SS and keep Arroyo is the stop gap 2B for Nick Yorke. Maybe put Downs and Duran on the roster to keep the heat on Arroyo since Duran started out as a 2nd baseman. Wait, the .668 OPS in Greenville in 2022 Nick Yorke? I get that he was dinged up all year but let's see how he does in Portland before we start holding spots in the BOS lineup for him.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 1, 2022 13:15:24 GMT -5
But who do you get on a one or two year deal? I'm assuming that they aren't committing to a long term SS because of Mayer. They have a ton of money coming off the books so they need to spend something. But they certainly aren't going to throw money around and they probably aren't going to "overpay" on what they feel a player is worth. They're doing great lip service when it comes to him lately but their actions speak otherwise. I expect Xander to end up in Philly St Louis or New York next year and Boston to shift Story to SS and keep Arroyo is the stop gap 2B for Nick Yorke. Maybe put Downs and Duran on the roster to keep the heat on Arroyo since Duran started out as a 2nd baseman. Wait, the .668 OPS in Greenville in 2022 Nick Yorke? I get that he was dinged up all year but let's see how he does in Portland before we start holding spots in the BOS lineup for him. The point being they aren't signing 5 year contracts for infielders while having Story still under contract and blocking 2 of their top prospects long term.
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Post by dangermike on Oct 1, 2022 13:46:26 GMT -5
acquiring correa would be my personal nightmare. he's got a top 5 hateable face in baseball and having to watch him daily would be a struggle. i think he's clearly the best option on the field but woof for my sanity
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Post by incandenza on Oct 1, 2022 13:47:53 GMT -5
I just can't pencil story in as the opening day SS. Sox have plenty of money to spend, arguably more than anyone else this offseason. SS is by far the strongest position available in FA this year. If you let Xander go without replacing him to slide story over, who do they go spend money on? Maybe Nimmo, but that's a worse team on paper than they are right now. I guess they could sign nimmo and rafi to an extension with the money saved but then they'd just be left another big hole at 2nd and in the lineup. But who do you get on a one or two year deal? I'm assuming that they aren't committing to a long term SS because of Mayer. They have a ton of money coming off the books so they need to spend something. But they certainly aren't going to throw money around and they probably aren't going to "overpay" on what they feel a player is worth. They're doing great lip service when it comes to him lately but their actions speak otherwise. I expect Xander to end up in Philly St Louis or New York next year and Boston to shift Story to SS and keep Arroyo is the stop gap 2B for Nick Yorke. Maybe put Downs and Duran on the roster to keep the heat on Arroyo since Duran started out as a 2nd baseman. In this scenario, a team that finishes below .500 is going to let their best player, who's having a 6 WAR season, walk and... just not replace him? In an offseason when they have a ton of money to spend?
The only conceivable scenario where they do this involves signing Judge. But that strikes me as less likely for a number of reasons than their re-signing Bogaerts or another top tier middle infielder to replace him.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Oct 1, 2022 13:54:02 GMT -5
Wait, the .668 OPS in Greenville in 2022 Nick Yorke? I get that he was dinged up all year but let's see how he does in Portland before we start holding spots in the BOS lineup for him. The point being they aren't signing 5 year contracts for infielders while having Story still under contract and blocking 2 of their top prospects long term. I think in order for a prospect to affect your decision on what contracts to give out, they 1. have to be a top prospect in all of baseball and 2. are realistically able to be in the majors within 2 years. The only ones who I think meet that criteria are Mayer and Casas, Casas being the reason (imo) they weren't in on Schwarber or Freeman. I don't think Yorke falls into that category of player yet. He is too far removed from the majors and there are too many questions around what his floor is. Too much can go wrong if you are planning on prospects that don't have elite pedigrees and are far from impacting the major league team, and there are definitely ways you can deal with a positional logjam if Yorke forces their hand.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 1, 2022 14:14:00 GMT -5
I just can't pencil story in as the opening day SS. Sox have plenty of money to spend, arguably more than anyone else this offseason. SS is by far the strongest position available in FA this year. If you let Xander go without replacing him to slide story over, who do they go spend money on? Maybe Nimmo, but that's a worse team on paper than they are right now. I guess they could sign nimmo and rafi to an extension with the money saved but then they'd just be left another big hole at 2nd and in the lineup. But who do you get on a one or two year deal? I'm assuming that they aren't committing to a long term SS because of Mayer. They have a ton of money coming off the books so they need to spend something. But they certainly aren't going to throw money around and they probably aren't going to "overpay" on what they feel a player is worth. They're doing great lip service when it comes to him lately but their actions speak otherwise. I expect Xander to end up in Philly St Louis or New York next year and Boston to shift Story to SS and keep Arroyo is the stop gap 2B for Nick Yorke. Maybe put Downs and Duran on the roster to keep the heat on Arroyo since Duran started out as a 2nd baseman. Mayer certainly is a promising prospect but that's all he is. You don't make your plans on him being up in 2 years. If he pushes the issue and is then that's a good problem to have. They won't let his presence stop them from making a run at Correa/X/turner/Swanson.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 1, 2022 14:34:04 GMT -5
But who do you get on a one or two year deal? I'm assuming that they aren't committing to a long term SS because of Mayer. They have a ton of money coming off the books so they need to spend something. But they certainly aren't going to throw money around and they probably aren't going to "overpay" on what they feel a player is worth. They're doing great lip service when it comes to him lately but their actions speak otherwise. I expect Xander to end up in Philly St Louis or New York next year and Boston to shift Story to SS and keep Arroyo is the stop gap 2B for Nick Yorke. Maybe put Downs and Duran on the roster to keep the heat on Arroyo since Duran started out as a 2nd baseman. Mayer certainly is a promising prospect but that's all he is. You don't make your plans on him being up in 2 years. If he pushes the issue and is then that's a good problem to have. They won't let his presence stop them from making a run at Correa/X/turner/Swanson. Do you really want Correa? If they aren't going to give Xander the bag then why would they pay a lesser player? Then again you could probably say the same thing about Story. Turner probably won't age well. So its X or Swanson in that case...
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 1, 2022 14:52:31 GMT -5
Mayer certainly is a promising prospect but that's all he is. You don't make your plans on him being up in 2 years. If he pushes the issue and is then that's a good problem to have. They won't let his presence stop them from making a run at Correa/X/turner/Swanson. Do you really want Correa? If they aren't going to give Xander the bag then why would they pay a lesser player? Then again you could probably say the same thing about Story. Turner probably won't age well. So its X or Swanson in that case... My biggest hope is they get something that works for both sides with X. Short of that yes I want any of Correa/turner/Swanson probably in that order. It's arguable that X is a superior player to Correa and even more arguably that X will be the superior player going forward over Correa.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Oct 1, 2022 16:56:20 GMT -5
My guess is that wherever X signs, it'll be for a handful of years or so... certainly a long enough deal to where he'll have to move from shortstop part way through his contract. For a host of reasons, Boston should be in on securing X long-term. He'd keep Story at second... would allow ample time to see whether Mayer, Lugo, or other draft picks could take over at short. He'd provide insurance in case Boston can't extend Devers at third. He's an icon in Boston and, while his value diminishes if he moves to a lesser defensive position, he also provides leadership and a face for Latin American players on the team. There's a public perception 'cost' of letting him go, much as with Betts, although Boston's not currently in the budgetary jail they were when Betts was traded. Maybe Boston offers a couple/three high-dollar years with a player opt-out. The remaining few years at less money, since by then he'd likely be an outfielder.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 1, 2022 18:10:01 GMT -5
My guess is that wherever X signs, it'll be for a handful of years or so... certainly a long enough deal to where he'll have to move from shortstop part way through his contract. For a host of reasons, Boston should be in on securing X long-term. He'd keep Story at second... would allow ample time to see whether Mayer, Lugo, or other draft picks could take over at short. He'd provide insurance in case Boston can't extend Devers at third. He's an icon in Boston and, while his value diminishes if he moves to a lesser defensive position, he also provides leadership and a face for Latin American players on the team. There's a public perception 'cost' of letting him go, much as with Betts, although Boston's not currently in the budgetary jail they were when Betts was traded. Maybe Boston offers a couple/three high-dollar years with a player opt-out. The remaining few years at less money, since by then he'd likely be an outfielder. Love X but hes not an icon. Ortiz is an icon. Pedey is an icon. Pedro is an icon. X is an excellent player that could be an icon if he finishes his career here. I don't think he's going to fall off the map if he goes somewhere else like Mo did but this is the best place for him. One of these years where having seasons tickets is rough. 2018 was friggin great though
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 1, 2022 22:01:12 GMT -5
My guess is that wherever X signs, it'll be for a handful of years or so... certainly a long enough deal to where he'll have to move from shortstop part way through his contract. For a host of reasons, Boston should be in on securing X long-term. He'd keep Story at second... would allow ample time to see whether Mayer, Lugo, or other draft picks could take over at short. He'd provide insurance in case Boston can't extend Devers at third. He's an icon in Boston and, while his value diminishes if he moves to a lesser defensive position, he also provides leadership and a face for Latin American players on the team . There's a public perception 'cost' of letting him go, much as with Betts, although Boston's not currently in the budgetary jail they were when Betts was traded. Maybe Boston offers a couple/three high-dollar years with a player opt-out. The remaining few years at less money, since by then he'd likely be an outfielder. Bogaerts is not Latin American.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 1, 2022 23:16:10 GMT -5
My guess is that wherever X signs, it'll be for a handful of years or so... certainly a long enough deal to where he'll have to move from shortstop part way through his contract. For a host of reasons, Boston should be in on securing X long-term. He'd keep Story at second... would allow ample time to see whether Mayer, Lugo, or other draft picks could take over at short. He'd provide insurance in case Boston can't extend Devers at third. He's an icon in Boston and, while his value diminishes if he moves to a lesser defensive position, he also provides leadership and a face for Latin American players on the team . There's a public perception 'cost' of letting him go, much as with Betts, although Boston's not currently in the budgetary jail they were when Betts was traded. Maybe Boston offers a couple/three high-dollar years with a player opt-out. The remaining few years at less money, since by then he'd likely be an outfielder. Bogaerts is not Latin American. Dutch American?
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Post by theburn on Oct 2, 2022 6:32:57 GMT -5
If Story is our SS next year we have big problems. Dude can't stay healthy.
Also, assuming Angelos isn't selling, I could totally see him throwing a bunch of money at Xander. He'd be a perfect fit on that team, regardless of whether or not Henderson can play short.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 2, 2022 9:53:09 GMT -5
Bogaerts is not Latin American. Dutch American? That works. It's a strange situation, he isn't even South American. Spanish is the third most known language there. Close to the same situation as Rafaela but different country, different background. I had commented the other day about how I was impressed with Rafaela's English. Same thought on Xander but he's had longer. I live in an area where maybe 75%-80 of the populatin speaks English. It's their 3rd langauge and very few are as articulate as either Xander or Rafaela and they've had longer to learn. In the 90's then Mayor Duterte ordered all schools from kindergarden through college to be taught in English. That was unpopular at the time but mayors here wield the most power. Today, Davao is pretty much the world's call center capitol. Chances are when you call an 800 number to talk to Wells Fargo Bank, you are talking to someone from Davao. For those from Martha's Vinyard, it's all the same, we're just kidding. ADD: Rafaela and Bogaerts both speak far better English than my wife. About equal to my kids. My kids have less local American accent than I do. I still drive a cah.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Oct 2, 2022 20:19:07 GMT -5
Bogaerts is not Latin American. Dutch American? Many people think that both Portuguese-speaking Brasil and the islands of the Caribbean are part of Latin America. Some disagree. There is is no real rule. Latin America is a made-up concept.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 3, 2022 0:38:48 GMT -5
Many people think that both Portuguese-speaking Brasil and the islands of the Caribbean are part of Latin America. Some disagree. There is is no real rule. Latin America is a made-up concept. What many people think has no relevance. The term derives from the Latin languages, specifically Spanish and Portuguese. Simple wiki: What is the best definition of Latin America? Latin America. noun. those areas of America whose official languages are Spanish and Portuguese, derived from Latin: South America, Central America, Mexico, and certain islands in the Caribbean. For both Xander and Rafaela, English is the 4th language. English is particularly tricky to speak because of multiple sounds for vowels. Using the word leaf, for example, the e is long and the a silent. In pretty much every other language using the basic alpahabet, both the e and the a would be pronounced and would be pronounced same as any other word with an a or e. There's also a higherarchy of sequences that occur because adjectives preceed the nown. The small green frog jumped over the long brown fence is proper. The green, small frog jumped over the brown long fence isn't. The vast majority of Filipinos that speak in English speak it with a Filipino accent. Sometimes it takes me a few minutes to digest what they said. Haha, I recently had a conversation about Laviticus with a friend who's a Baptist Pastor. It took me a while to figure that one out but, that's not an English name, he's likely closer to the real pronunciation than I.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 3, 2022 7:53:14 GMT -5
Let's get back on topic - thanks!
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 3, 2022 9:34:16 GMT -5
If Story is our SS next year we have big problems. Dude can't stay healthy. Also, assuming Angelos isn't selling, I could totally see him throwing a bunch of money at Xander. He'd be a perfect fit on that team, regardless of whether or not Henderson can play short. Interesting scenario. As good of a character fit Xander would seem to be for Baltimore, that new left field may destroy his power output. I wonder how much of a factor those new dimensions will play into scouting for Baltimore going forward.
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Post by orcoaster on Nov 7, 2022 15:34:09 GMT -5
If Bogaerts signs elsewhere, what is the likelihood that Rafaela Ceddanne earns the SS job? According to Prospects1500: Rafaela’s defense, both at SS and particularly in CF, were rated among the best in professional baseball. Not just the Red Sox system, or across the minor leagues, but including the majors! www.prospects1500.com/al-east/red-sox/2022-red-sox-minor-league-superlatives/By all accounts, Rafaela's SS glove is not only major league ready right now, it is Gold Glove caliber. He is already penciled in as the WooSox CF. His arrival in Boston is expected to be late 2023. How much of a stretch is it to expect him to play SS in Boston in April? His bat made great progress last year, but he would be a glove first SS. If the defense would be truly outstanding, and he could hit around .700 OPS, you'd have to consider it. Then you take the money and make Judge an offer he can't refuse, something like 6/300. Not sure Judge would take it, but I don't see the Red Sox signing one of the other FA SSs if they can't re-sign Xander. I also don't think Story plays SS again. Regardless of whether Xander signs or not, I believe the team is looking for a bridge to Mayer. Ceddanne could well be it. Cheap and exciting -- would be fun to watch.
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Post by xdmo on Nov 7, 2022 15:38:33 GMT -5
6 for 300 on Judge would be a AAV of 50 million. Lol.
Rafaela will start the year in AAA. He's not a part of the conversation to start with the big league club yet.
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Post by xdmo on Nov 7, 2022 16:11:16 GMT -5
Pretty cool video. Didn't know Turner was second in all of MLB in FWar since 2019.
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Post by carl4sox on Nov 7, 2022 16:19:05 GMT -5
What's the expectation on signing shortstops? Do you think there will be a flurry of signing all/most of them in the next two weeks? I'm sure Chaim will be calling Turner's agents first thing tomorrow. Let the Xander and Turner options play out in that time period. If no Xander, Turner is my choice.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 7, 2022 16:36:52 GMT -5
If Bogaerts signs elsewhere, what is the likelihood that Rafaela Ceddanne earns the SS job? According to Prospects1500: Rafaela’s defense, both at SS and particularly in CF, were rated among the best in professional baseball. Not just the Red Sox system, or across the minor leagues, but including the majors! www.prospects1500.com/al-east/red-sox/2022-red-sox-minor-league-superlatives/By all accounts, Rafaela's SS glove is not only major league ready right now, it is Gold Glove caliber. He is already penciled in as the WooSox CF. His arrival in Boston is expected to be late 2023. How much of a stretch is it to expect him to play SS in Boston in April? His bat made great progress last year, but he would be a glove first SS. If the defense would be truly outstanding, and he could hit around .700 OPS, you'd have to consider it. Then you take the money and make Judge an offer he can't refuse, something like 6/300. Not sure Judge would take it, but I don't see the Red Sox signing one of the other FA SSs if they can't re-sign Xander. I also don't think Story plays SS again. Regardless of whether Xander signs or not, I believe the team is looking for a bridge to Mayer. Ceddanne could well be it. Cheap and exciting -- would be fun to watch. 0 I think that report is a bit outdated. His defense doesn’t grade out nearly as highly at SS as it does in CF. And he’s also just not ready to hit at the major league level at all. If we’re lucky, he’ll hit enough for CF and we’ll finally have a long terms solution there. Even that is no sure thing though.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Nov 7, 2022 17:11:36 GMT -5
Similar to my feelings on the outfield, if we go into 2023 with Ceddanne Rafaela penciled in as the starting SS, I would consider that a pretty big failure considering the amount of money available.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 7, 2022 17:19:20 GMT -5
Similar to my feelings on the outfield, if we go into 2023 with Ceddanne Rafaela penciled in as the starting SS, I would consider that a pretty big failure considering the amount of money available. I dont think anybody but you has thrown that scenario out
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