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Post by incandenza on Nov 14, 2023 18:38:22 GMT -5
Well on the face of it that's a lot more mysterious to me than leaving Ward unprotected. Not only is he a real prospect, he's also the sort of potentially usable AAA depth that you need to fill out the 40-man roster anyway!
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Nov 14, 2023 18:43:44 GMT -5
I'm really confused by this move to leave off Drohan. He absolutely tore it up in AA, struggled a lot in AAA, but why in the world would a team like the Royals or Athletics not poach this guy instantly? Why not protect him and use him as trade bait if you don't want him?
Are Logan Gillaspie or Zach Weiss better options? Mind boggling, right now.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 14, 2023 18:49:21 GMT -5
First questionable move by the new front office. Is there actually a new front office yet? I thought it was really just Breslow that’s new so far, would imagine the remnants of the old staff had a lot of say on this
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 14, 2023 18:58:35 GMT -5
Drohan was one of the least successful pitchers anywhere in AAA this year. I figured you could turn him into a reliever and be happy to have him, but I probably wouldn't rate him as a starter ahead of the best kinds of guys you can get for free. Are Logan Gillaspie or Zach Weiss better options? Mind boggling, right now. Those two are likely to get cut soon, so they're not really the marginal guy who Drohan lost a spot to.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 14, 2023 18:59:36 GMT -5
Drohan's stuff would require almost perfect command at the major league level. Breslow said he thinks it's easier to improve stuff than command so he must think what's there is all that will be there.
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Post by pappyman99 on Nov 14, 2023 18:59:48 GMT -5
eh I mean not too much history of success for Drohan and he was absolutely putrid in AAA last year and is about to be 25
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Nov 14, 2023 19:00:08 GMT -5
Drohan was one of the least successful pitchers anywhere in AAA this year. I figured you could turn him into a reliever and be happy to have him, but I probably wouldn't rate him as a starter ahead of the best kinds of guys you can get for free. Are Logan Gillaspie or Zach Weiss better options? Mind boggling, right now. Those two are likely to get cut soon, so they're not really the marginal guy who Drohan lost a spot to. But if you cut one now, you can at least dangle Drohan as a trade chip. He's a lefty starter who made it to AAA last year, that's far more enticing for trades than Gillaspie or Weiss who have been DFA'd at least once.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 14, 2023 19:03:33 GMT -5
I wonder what’s available to draft? You’d figure a lot of younger IFA/HS kids who lost a full season in 2020 might be festering up to the tops of teams rosters making tough decisions for other teams as well.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 14, 2023 19:13:07 GMT -5
Drohan was one of the least successful pitchers anywhere in AAA this year. I figured you could turn him into a reliever and be happy to have him, but I probably wouldn't rate him as a starter ahead of the best kinds of guys you can get for free. He was incredible in AA *this season*. Everyone was drooling over his starts in the game threads! He has a decent pedigree and is still a top-15 prospect. Very weird on the face of it to give up on him after 89 innings in AAA.
And could they not have traded him for a Dominican league flyer? I suppose the answer to that might be yes, but that seems strange to me for reasons just stated.
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Post by lennsakata on Nov 14, 2023 19:20:53 GMT -5
Kind of like Yankees Matt Sauer for a potential FU Whitlock esque Sox pick. MA kid who has highly touted out of HS, hadn’t quite gotten velocity back from surgery a few years ago but touched 95 as a starter this summer. Think he could still get some more velocity back, especially for an inning or two, and could be playable for out of the pen with a pretty good slider
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 14, 2023 19:32:10 GMT -5
Drohan was one of the least successful pitchers anywhere in AAA this year. I figured you could turn him into a reliever and be happy to have him, but I probably wouldn't rate him as a starter ahead of the best kinds of guys you can get for free. He was incredible in AA *this season*. Everyone was drooling over his starts in the game threads! He has a decent pedigree and is still a top-15 prospect. Very weird on the face of it to give up on him after 89 innings in AAA.
And could they not have traded him for a Dominican league flyer? I suppose the answer to that might be yes, but that seems strange to me for reasons just stated.
I mean, I personally wouldn't have him in the top 15. It is appropriate for a five month stretch of sucking to wreck a pitcher's value. He's 25 and the spreadsheets are projecting him to put up Connor Seabold stats next year.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,091
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Post by cdj on Nov 14, 2023 19:33:33 GMT -5
They must plan on doing a lot if they don’t think he’s worthy of the 40 man
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Post by wOBA Fett on Nov 14, 2023 19:41:00 GMT -5
The fact that we subject guys like Ward and Drohan to the Rule 5 shows how inept the prior regime was at trading upper level prospect talent for major league talent. Even acquiring a mid-level reliver under team control for this level of prospect would be better than losing them for nothing.
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Post by patford on Nov 14, 2023 20:14:52 GMT -5
Drohan could possibly have been traded but the return would have been what? The expert consensus is the Sox have a very good system which is lacking in pitching. Every team has a 40 man roster. Every team has to make difficult decisions. Odds are pitchers thought of as superior to Drohan will be exposed in the Rule 5 Draft.
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Post by nonothing on Nov 14, 2023 20:17:53 GMT -5
1) Breslow presumably believes Drohan has neither the control nor sufficient MLB quality pitches to execute at this point. I would imagine he has studied his video extensively.
2) Red Sox will not necessarily lose Drohan. Ward was a stupid non-protect. To avoid extensive argument argument over this, I would simply point to his selection first overall last year and to the fact that he was kept. Song was not dumb to leave exposed. Drohan is also reasonable to leave unprotected
3) Red Sox are going to drop presumably at least 3 pitchers for new signings, so if you would need to drop Drohan later, it is better to not select him now.
4) I think Ethan Hankins of the Guardians would be an interesting get in the rule 5 draft.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 14, 2023 20:23:01 GMT -5
I think folks are discounting how bad Drohan was in AAA.
FB avg velo dropped by almost 1 mph, miss% dropped, strikeout % dropped, BB% doubled, HR% like quadrupled, even GB% dropped. He was, for one reason or another, a completely different pitcher.
I'm surprised by this because his AA stint (and very strong ST) DID happen, but without that 2-month period, he's kind of ordinary. I get the thinking. I don't necessarily agree with it but I have to acknowledge the information disparity. I'd have protected him but I'm not going to immediately jump to "that was stupid."
And to echo a point others have made, the comp isn't to the 40-man roster right now. It's to the 40-man roster on opening day. If Logan Gillaspie is on the roster and Drohan is lost on Rule 5, then yeah, be upset. But that's not going to happen.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Nov 14, 2023 20:28:18 GMT -5
Drohan could possibly have been traded but the return would have been what? The expert consensus is the Sox have a very good system which is lacking in pitching. Every team has a 40 man roster. Every team has to make difficult decisions. Odds are pitchers thought of as superior to Drohan will be exposed in the Rule 5 Draft. Drohan was great in AA, but beyond bad in AAA. With all the additions I feel like the Red Sox will add, IMO, we will find that there is not room for him after a couple starters, a middle infielder, a right handed bat for the outfielder, and a AAA depth starter….
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Nov 14, 2023 20:28:34 GMT -5
I think folks are discounting how bad Drohan was in AAA. FB avg velo dropped by almost 1 mph, miss% dropped, strikeout % dropped, BB% doubled, HR% like quadrupled, even GB% dropped. He was, for one reason or another, a completely different pitcher. I'm surprised by this because his AA stint (and very strong ST) DID happen, but without that 2-month period, he's kind of ordinary. I get the thinking. I don't necessarily agree with it but I have to acknowledge the information disparity. I'd have protected him but I'm not going to immediately jump to "that was stupid." And to echo a point others have made, the comp isn't to the 40-man roster right now. It's to the 40-man roster on opening day. If Logan Gillaspie is on the roster and Drohan is lost on Rule 5, then yeah, be upset. But that's not going to happen. I understand the point, but if we expect Gillaspie to not be on the roster come opening day, why wouldn't we drop him now and add Drohan if only to preserve him as a trade piece? I don't imagine that Gillaspie will fetch more than Drohan would, and while Shane's value may not be as high as we would like, now he cannot be traded until after he makes it through the Rule 5.
Is Drohan's stock so low that we can't use him as a final piece for a trade this offseason? This seems extra confusing because Breslow has specifically talked about trading prospects, and now one of them is completely off the table.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Nov 14, 2023 20:29:30 GMT -5
Drohan could possibly have been traded but the return would have been what? The expert consensus is the Sox have a very good system which is lacking in pitching. Every team has a 40 man roster. Every team has to make difficult decisions. Odds are pitchers thought of as superior to Drohan will be exposed in the Rule 5 Draft. Scott Barlow went to the Padres for their #10. That's probably equal to where Drohan would have been in the Padres system. I'm a firm believer that Scott Barlow was better than some of the pitchers the Red Sox were throwing out there in middle relief after the trade deadline even if he struggled at San Diego. If you don't like Barlow, take your pick of any similar reliver.
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 14, 2023 20:39:37 GMT -5
I think folks are discounting how bad Drohan was in AAA. FB avg velo dropped by almost 1 mph, miss% dropped, strikeout % dropped, BB% doubled, HR% like quadrupled, even GB% dropped. He was, for one reason or another, a completely different pitcher. I'm surprised by this because his AA stint (and very strong ST) DID happen, but without that 2-month period, he's kind of ordinary. I get the thinking. I don't necessarily agree with it but I have to acknowledge the information disparity. I'd have protected him but I'm not going to immediately jump to "that was stupid." And to echo a point others have made, the comp isn't to the 40-man roster right now. It's to the 40-man roster on opening day. If Logan Gillaspie is on the roster and Drohan is lost on Rule 5, then yeah, be upset. But that's not going to happen. I understand the point, but if we expect Gillaspie to not be on the roster come opening day, why wouldn't we drop him now and add Drohan if only to preserve him as a trade piece? I don't imagine that Gillaspie will fetch more than Drohan would, and while Shane's value may not be as high as we would like, now he cannot be traded until after he makes it through the Rule 5.
Is Drohan's stock so low that we can't use him as a final piece for a trade this offseason? This seems extra confusing because Breslow has specifically talked about trading prospects, and now one of them is completely off the table.
Because that way they likely have to cut Drohan and get nothing and definitely lose him, this way there is a still an okay chance they keep him.
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 14, 2023 20:42:33 GMT -5
I understand the point, but if we expect Gillaspie to not be on the roster come opening day, why wouldn't we drop him now and add Drohan if only to preserve him as a trade piece?
You don't want to add Drohan if you're not planning on carrying him all offseason. When you remove him then he goes on waivers, which is much worse than exposing him to the Rule 5.
Drohan eating up a 40 man roster spot has very little trade value
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 14, 2023 20:48:58 GMT -5
First questionable move by the new front office. Is there actually a new front office yet? I thought it was really just Breslow that’s new so far, would imagine the remnants of the old staff had a lot of say on this Basically just Breslow at this point. The people under him haven't changed - yet. Guess Breslow will be getting the scrutiny. While I don't think Drohan will necessarily amount to much, I don't understand why one of the few guys who can come up from AAA and start was so easily gotten rid of. I don't know why Breslow messed with the Drohan.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 14, 2023 20:50:19 GMT -5
I think folks are discounting how bad Drohan was in AAA. FB avg velo dropped by almost 1 mph, miss% dropped, strikeout % dropped, BB% doubled, HR% like quadrupled, even GB% dropped. He was, for one reason or another, a completely different pitcher. I'm surprised by this because his AA stint (and very strong ST) DID happen, but without that 2-month period, he's kind of ordinary. I get the thinking. I don't necessarily agree with it but I have to acknowledge the information disparity. I'd have protected him but I'm not going to immediately jump to "that was stupid." And to echo a point others have made, the comp isn't to the 40-man roster right now. It's to the 40-man roster on opening day. If Logan Gillaspie is on the roster and Drohan is lost on Rule 5, then yeah, be upset. But that's not going to happen. This "for one reason or another" is doing a lot of work. I think you guys were saying on a recent podcast that maybe you were discounting how good Drohan had been at AA. Another thing you guys like to say is that development is not linear.
The very fact that he was left unprotected is obviously a very heavy weight on the side of the scale that says he's never going to amount to anything. But knowing nothing else, if I see a prospect who distinctly adds to his arsenal over an offseason, comes out blazing, then has trouble adjusting to the next level after he's promoted, I would tend to think a) injury, b) mechanical issues, c) mental issues... and it would take me more than 89 innings to decide that he's cooked as a prospect.
If the Red Sox think differently I'm sure they have their reasons. I'd just be real curious to know what that "for one reason or another" represents.
(On another note, it's kind of impressive that people are *still* upset about leaving Ward unprotected after the season he had...)
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Post by nonothing on Nov 14, 2023 20:51:57 GMT -5
I understand the point, but if we expect Gillaspie to not be on the roster come opening day, why wouldn't we drop him now and add Drohan if only to preserve him as a trade piece?
You don't want to add Drohan if you're not planning on carrying him all offseason. When you remove him then he goes on waivers, which is much worse than exposing him to the Rule 5.
Drohan eating up a 40 man roster spot has very little trade value
He is worth more in trade off the 40-Man if he isn't selected or is selected and later returned.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 14, 2023 20:52:07 GMT -5
I understand the point, but if we expect Gillaspie to not be on the roster come opening day, why wouldn't we drop him now and add Drohan if only to preserve him as a trade piece?
You don't want to add Drohan if you're not planning on carrying him all offseason. When you remove him then he goes on waivers, which is much worse than exposing him to the Rule 5. Drohan eating up a 40 man roster spot has very little trade value
This. You're weighing the chances he gets taken and sticks against the chances he's worth keeping on the 40-man and/or you find a trade worth doing.
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