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4/24-4/26 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 27, 2023 9:32:06 GMT -5
This is not a defense of Bloom's strategy or a criticism of Preller's or whatever, but I do think it's pretty funny that despite all of the protestation about the Red Sox being "cheap" as opposed to a team like the Padres who has spent pretty recklessly, they both have the exact same record so far They're also 1 game behind the division lead. True, so by some people's definition, despite having an identical record and a run differential that is 25 runs worse, they've been a better team so far because they have the arbitrary title of "second place team" as opposed to "last place team" lol
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Post by rhswanzey on Apr 27, 2023 10:13:31 GMT -5
Preller inherited a less bad farm system than Bloom and promptly traded Max Fried (2nd in NL CY last year), getting very little back. He had the farm system up to #2 at the onset of his sixth full season in 2020 - although, thanks in no small part to stealing Tatis Jr, it also ranked highly in 2018. Just quickly looking at the list, it looks like only four of the top 20 is still on their 40 man roster, just three years later, and only one of them - Cronenworth, himself a trade acquisition - is a starter. The system was gutted by trades. Lower down, I see Esteury Ruiz (OAK primary return for Sean Murphy) and some okayish closer named David Bednar sitting at number 30.
The free agent money is definitely a new phase for the org; this is one of the heaviest trading teams in recent memory, rivaled only by the earlier part of Dipoto’s tenure in Seattle. Preller has been around longer than Bloom; maybe this shows how many more options an admin has once the farm system is deep enough and consistently replenishing enough, so that you can make a big trade or two and not be totally barren for the next half decade.
A lot of the prospects busted or haven’t established yet, but personally, I’m good with the less reckless guy, provided that things trend towards less averse to acquisitions as quality depth accumulates.
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Post by seamus on Apr 27, 2023 10:24:36 GMT -5
Considering the injuries, largely terrible starting pitching, and difficult schedule (the Tigers are the only bad team they've played, and the Sox swept on the road)... I'm okay with 13-13 at the moment. Coming out of a 6-game road trip against two good teams with a 3-3 record is a perfectly fine result that only feels unsatisfying because two of the losses were by 1 run.
Just need the AL East to take a damn chill pill. Sox have a good SRS score, 2nd in the AL East and tied for 7th in baseball. This is a good team that needs a lucky break or two in some of these one-run games - seems like we spent all our luck so far on the McKenna drop in the opening series.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 27, 2023 10:27:54 GMT -5
This is not a defense of Bloom's strategy or a criticism of Preller's or whatever, but I do think it's pretty funny that despite all of the protestation about the Red Sox being "cheap" as opposed to a team like the Padres who has spent pretty recklessly, they both have the exact same record so far They're also 1 game behind the division lead. This is true - Padres and Red Sox have the same record, but the Red Sox are in a tougher division and have a harder schedule.
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Post by manfred on Apr 27, 2023 10:29:19 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.”
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 27, 2023 10:31:28 GMT -5
True, so by some people's definition, despite having an identical record and a run differential that is 25 runs worse, they've been a better team so far because they have the arbitrary title of "second place team" as opposed to "last place team" lol Divisions exist. It's not arbitrary, at least on my part, they're a real thing and part of the rules for getting into the playoffs. If you want to say the rules are arbitrary then fine, but you either play the hand your dealt or lose. Besides it's just context, I didn't say they were better or worse. The divisions themselves aren't arbitrary, it's using placement in a division as the sole indicator of a team's quality while being ignorant to every other piece of contextual information that is. Also, I know you weren't saying they were better or worse, I was just using what you were saying to make a point about how illogical some prior statements about evaluating records were.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 27, 2023 10:44:18 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.” Lol
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Post by dcsoxfan on Apr 27, 2023 10:58:00 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox are a decent team AND are still likely to finish 5th in the AL East.
The AL East is historically good right now.
2022 was the first year EVER that the Yankees, Rays, Jays and O’s finished above .500. The 2022 Red Sox played a staggering 106 games against teams with winning records. By contrast, the 2018 and 2019 Red Sox had fewer than 70 games against teams with winning records. What’s more those teams each played 32 games against 100 loss teams; last year, the Red Sox had only 13 games against 100 loss teams.
The more balanced schedule will help, but the Red Sox will still probably end up with one of the two toughest schedule in MLB, and play almost 100 games against teams with winning records.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Apr 27, 2023 11:03:38 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.” I wish I had the confidence to just blatantly make up strawman arguments like this in an effort to sound witty and biting, it would make things so much easier
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Post by Guidas on Apr 27, 2023 11:09:47 GMT -5
They're also 1 game behind the division lead. This is true - Padres and Red Sox have the same record, but the Red Sox are in a tougher division and have a harder schedule. And it's, like, April.
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Post by manfred on Apr 27, 2023 11:14:00 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.” I wish I had the confidence to just blatantly make up strawman arguments like this in an effort to sound witty and biting, it would make things so much easier Easy. I’m teasing. But it is funny that the Sox seem to alternate a win and a loss, and every few days people say “this is fine!” I know… it is early. But the fact that people keep saying it kind of cracks me up. A lot to to go, but, all things being equal, I’d like *not* to need reassurance.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 27, 2023 11:41:50 GMT -5
Does the last place with a decent record debate still rage on?
For those who refuse to say last place, would they still refuse to say first place Red Sox if they had the same record but lead a weak division? Just curious.
We know they'd have the same record but one would be eligible for a playoff spot and one wouldn't because dem are the rules, as silly as it can be.
Otherwise we'd be back to the pre-division days except we'd see the top 6 or top 8 get in for a 15 team league.
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Post by rhswanzey on Apr 27, 2023 12:17:49 GMT -5
They played *nineteen days in a row* and went 10-9, and that’s uninspiring?
How often do you think we get Ort in the 8th, Brasier in the 9th, or random waiver claim making his third MLB appearance in a 1 run game, during a more normal seven or nine games in a row type of stretch?
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Post by rhswanzey on Apr 27, 2023 12:21:14 GMT -5
Red Sox are one of only four teams to play 26 games so far (Rockies, Padres, Diamondbacks)
Three teams have actually played only 23 games (Cubs, Nationals, Tigers)
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 27, 2023 12:36:24 GMT -5
Does the last place with a decent record debate still rage on? For those who refuse to say last place, would they still refuse to say first place Red Sox if they had the same record but lead a weak division? Just curious. We know they'd have the same record but one would be eligible for a playoff spot and one wouldn't because dem are the rules, as silly as it can be. Otherwise we'd be back to the pre-division days except we'd see the top 6 or top 8 get in for a 15 team league. Yes, personally, I would feel equally well about how the team was constructed if they had the same record, adjusted for opponent quality, regardless of where that ranked them in their division.
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Post by manfred on Apr 27, 2023 12:40:58 GMT -5
Does the last place with a decent record debate still rage on? For those who refuse to say last place, would they still refuse to say first place Red Sox if they had the same record but lead a weak division? Just curious. We know they'd have the same record but one would be eligible for a playoff spot and one wouldn't because dem are the rules, as silly as it can be. Otherwise we'd be back to the pre-division days except we'd see the top 6 or top 8 get in for a 15 team league. Yes, personally, I would feel equally well about how the team was constructed if they had the same record, adjusted for opponent quality, regardless of where that ranked them in their division. Serious question: When you are watching a game, and something unfavorable happens, rather than blurt out an expletive do you pause and make adjustments in your head? Does it make you feel “equally well” if a guy homers or if he hits a long fly out that would be out of any other stadium?
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 27, 2023 12:42:59 GMT -5
Yes, personally, I would feel equally well about how the team was constructed if they had the same record, adjusted for opponent quality, regardless of where that ranked them in their division. Serious question: When you are watching a game, and something unfavorable happens, rather than blurt out an expletive do you pause and make adjustments in your head? Does it make you feel “equally well” if a guy homers or if he hits a long fly out that would be out of any other stadium? I mean, it makes me feel less well about the team's prospects of winning the game in the moment, but equally well about their (and that player's) prospects in the long run. Baseball seasons are long and a lot of fluky stuff happens, personally I prefer viewing things from a big picture sense to riding a roller coaster on every out.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 27, 2023 12:51:03 GMT -5
Yes, personally, I would feel equally well about how the team was constructed if they had the same record, adjusted for opponent quality, regardless of where that ranked them in their division. Serious question: When you are watching a game, and something unfavorable happens, rather than blurt out an expletive do you pause and make adjustments in your head? Does it make you feel “equally well” if a guy homers or if he hits a long fly out that would be out of any other stadium? You seem to be under the persistent misapprehension that a desire to understand the broader context of events on the field means that someone doesn't care about events on the field.
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Post by seamus on Apr 27, 2023 13:03:08 GMT -5
Being probably too real for a second, I personally have a history of severe depression and intrusive thoughts, so whenever possible I make a conscious effort to look for things to be upbeat about. I can definitely appreciate that it may be annoying for those who don't need that kind of constant reassurance that it's all okay, but it's what works to keep me on an even keel. Whenever you see a post from me that's just too gosh-darned optimistic, feel free to just chalk it up as an entry in a positivity journal, lol. All that being said, I definitely would like to start banking a few more wins as opposed to just feeling reassured they'll start coming this summer. A nice little sweep against Cleveland would not go amiss.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 27, 2023 13:07:46 GMT -5
Speaking personally, I have always been against how Playoffs are decided.
My personal preference is an NL vs AL type seeding, so that the teams that truly have the best records make the playoffs.... (and if that means some team like the Twins or CHW miss out) despite winning their "division" than so be it...
and if that means the entire AL east is in the playoffs and other divisions are left out then oh well,
you should not have a 90+ win team miss the playoffs because they are in a division that have 2+ other 90 win teams
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 27, 2023 13:36:05 GMT -5
Being probably too real for a second, I personally have a history of severe depression and intrusive thoughts, so whenever possible I make a conscious effort to look for things to be upbeat about. I can definitely appreciate that it may be annoying for those who don't need that kind of constant reassurance that it's all okay, but it's what works to keep me on an even keel. Whenever you see a post from me that's just too gosh-darned optimistic, feel free to just chalk it up as an entry in a positivity journal, lol. All that being said, I definitely would like to start banking a few more wins as opposed to just feeling reassured they'll start coming this summer. A nice little sweep against Cleveland would not go amiss. Perfectly real. Kudos!
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Post by yuchangclan on Apr 27, 2023 14:38:04 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.” This is a little TOO spot-on, I think.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 27, 2023 15:29:27 GMT -5
Being probably too real for a second, I personally have a history of severe depression and intrusive thoughts, so whenever possible I make a conscious effort to look for things to be upbeat about. I can definitely appreciate that it may be annoying for those who don't need that kind of constant reassurance that it's all okay, but it's what works to keep me on an even keel. Whenever you see a post from me that's just too gosh-darned optimistic, feel free to just chalk it up as an entry in a positivity journal, lol. All that being said, I definitely would like to start banking a few more wins as opposed to just feeling reassured they'll start coming this summer. A nice little sweep against Cleveland would not go amiss. The struggle is real, you do you, in a sea of negativity sometimes it's always nice to see some glimmer of optimism.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 27, 2023 15:38:30 GMT -5
Speaking personally, I have always been against how Playoffs are decided. My personal preference is an NL vs AL type seeding, so that the teams that truly have the best records make the playoffs.... (and if that means some team like the Twins or CHW miss out) despite winning their "division" than so be it... and if that means the entire AL east is in the playoffs and other divisions are left out then oh well, you should not have a 90+ win team miss the playoffs because they are in a division that have 2+ other 90 win teams Couldn’t agree more. Personally I think this also forces more teams to invest in being more competitive.
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Apr 27, 2023 19:18:37 GMT -5
September 29th: “considering everything, I think 80-80 at this point is great. We have 2 games left against the 4th place Orioles, so we can catch up ground. All the secondary stats show we are no worse than the 7th best team in the AL.” I wish I had the confidence to just blatantly make up strawman arguments like this in an effort to sound witty and biting, it would make things so much easier That's exactly what you did when you said: "The divisions themselves aren't arbitrary, it's using placement in a division as the sole indicator of a team's quality while being ignorant to every other piece of contextual information that is." Not a single poster has done that. Everyone on here can look at the 2022 standings and see that yes, the Red Sox finished in last place in the AL East. Everyone can also look at the overall standings and understand that 13 teams had worse records. I have pointed out this fact as a source of grumpiness for me because it means that despite our last place finish we'll have only the 14th pick in the first round of the '23 draft.
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