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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2023 8:57:19 GMT -5
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 10, 2023 9:31:20 GMT -5
Cleveland really screwed up the plans taking Frazier. Just seemed to obvious to take Meadows after that. Misses by everyone tho
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,825
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Post by nomar on May 10, 2023 9:37:00 GMT -5
God it’s scary that this draft was a decade ago.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 10, 2023 9:47:20 GMT -5
God it’s scary that this draft was a decade ago. Do we think Ball's dad has let him throw a curveball by now?
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 10, 2023 9:49:49 GMT -5
Man, looking back at the draft class from this year brings back some memories, most of them bad. I remember being an irrational Bryan Hudson guy for a little while. If you'd have told me after the Jon Denney pick that the two best major leaguers from this class would've been the 19th and 26th rounders (Gabe Speier is quietly very good), I'd have probably laughed in your face. Really the mid-point of a very unfortunate stretch of drafts from 2012-2014.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2023 10:09:33 GMT -5
Cleveland really screwed up the plans taking Frazier. Just seemed to obvious to take Meadows after that. Misses by everyone tho Read the redraft though. Frazier isn't on it. Meadows is back at 22 which sounds good until you realize he's with a bunch of relievers. We all would've fallen all over ourselves for Kohl Stewart, also absent. In hindsight, maybe they should've identified an Anderson, Renfroe (who they'd drafted previously), or Crawford, but this redraft is full of 2nd, 3rd, 4th round and later guys. It was a brutal class.
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Post by James Dunne on May 10, 2023 10:40:17 GMT -5
My big "what-if" from 2013 is that teams overreacted, I think, to Manaea's hip injury. I know the bonus demands probably made it tough: he got $750K more than Ball, so I can understand being wary considering the risk involved. But before the 2013 season he was considered consensus top five, was outstanding that spring when he was healthy, then dropped out of the 30 because of the injury and signability. He also lined up with what the Red Sox were valuing in amateur pitchers at the time, he's quite tall and he came in at a tough angle (though the team was really obsessed with "plane" at that point and Manaea's might not have been high enough).
It was a very bad draft, but Ball was a very poor pick even amongst it. Basically everyone, even the dudes who didn't turn into major leaguers, had more value within a couple years of the draft than Ball did. That's worth quite a bit when it comes to making trades. Frazier, for example, was a terrible major leaguer... who was the main piece in getting Cleveland 2 1/2 years of Andrew Miller. Dom Smith was a top-100 prospect into 2017, Dombrowski definitely is able to use that to frustrate everyone by trading him for a reliever.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 10, 2023 10:42:41 GMT -5
Cleveland really screwed up the plans taking Frazier. Just seemed to obvious to take Meadows after that. Misses by everyone tho Read the redraft though. Frazier isn't on it. Meadows is back at 22 which sounds good until you realize he's with a bunch of relievers. We all would've fallen all over ourselves for Kohl Stewart, also absent. In hindsight, maybe they should've identified an Anderson, Renfroe (who they'd drafted previously), or Crawford, but this redraft is full of 2nd, 3rd, 4th round and later guys. It was a brutal class. Oh I know, it never worked out for Clint, I mean Jackson, wait it's Clint again Frazier. I was just talking about how it felt in the moment. Seemed like it was all but a guarantee that the Sox were taking him, and then Cleveland grabbed him out of nowhere.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 10, 2023 10:48:20 GMT -5
Man I completely forgot about the name thing. Good pull.
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on May 10, 2023 13:14:17 GMT -5
Besides draft slot just talking about Boston 1st round picks of that era. Who was worse
Kolbrin Vitek or Trey Ball ??
It's probably still Ball, but at least he was a consensus top 10 talent where as Vitek was pretty bad and a reach..
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Post by James Dunne on May 10, 2023 13:47:48 GMT -5
BA had Vitek ranked #25 and called him a more physical AJ Pollock, and their draft preview said he could go as high as #9. His problems were also more injury-related than Ball (though there were warning signs pre-injury as well). So I don't agree that he was particularly a reach. On the other hand, Christian Yelich went three spots later, and he was a much more obvious miss than anyone in 2013.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on May 11, 2023 9:23:42 GMT -5
I'll never forget Vitek crushing a homer over the Green Monster in a Futures at Fenway game (can we bring those games back btw?!?) and thinking he was gonna be a future major leaguer. Granted I was like 13 at the time
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Post by fdrnewdeal on May 11, 2023 15:19:39 GMT -5
It's always super interesting to revisit drafts and I've long argued that people should calm down about the Trey Ball pick.
We were all hoping for Frazier and willing to take Meadows as a consolation prize. The former has never really impacted the MLB and the later had 1 really good season but hasn't had much of a meaningful career beyond that.
I recall being super low on Colin Moran, worried that he'd never hit for power. He's actually put up a wRC+ of 98 over significant plate appearances (granted with poor defense).
As for Callis' re-evaluation, I think recency bias is impacting him a bit on Trey Mancini, who has had a pretty solid career interrupted by cancer treatment. I also think I'd rank Jon Gray and Nick Pivetta a little higher just because SPs are so hard to come by. Hard to argue with much else though and Callis of course knows his stuff better than me, so my critique is more of a question of taste than me saying, "Jim Callis is wrong!"
But yeah, it's wild how bad this class was.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on May 12, 2023 5:42:54 GMT -5
Thought this draft was launched into the sun?
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