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6/29 Gameday Thread: Double Dose of the Woo
nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 29, 2023 19:40:26 GMT -5
Hickey homered
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Post by jbuttah on Jun 29, 2023 19:41:39 GMT -5
Dude is massive for his age (not in a bad way) I'm no expert, but he looks like he's got a quick swing.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 29, 2023 20:24:16 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 29, 2023 20:43:38 GMT -5
Oppo taco!
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 29, 2023 20:45:59 GMT -5
Rough game for the Sox in Salem. Offense did next to nothing. Four singles including a bloop that barely fell in and an infield roller. Nothing really to highlight there. Coffey, Garcia, and Castro had some hard contact. Defensively, Ravelo is as advertised and Jhostynxon Garcia climbed the wall in left center for an excellent catch.
Brannon went 1-4 including a strikeout to end the game with the bases loaded. The single was a hard grounder between short and third. Had an insanely wide setup with two strikes in the ninth. Behind the plate, I saw good and bad. He did a good job at blocking balls in the dirt, but also dropped a couple easy ones. I didn’t have a good angle on him, but his framing didn’t look amazing. He had a situation where he handled his pitcher well. Marquez Johnson thought he had strike three on two pitches in a row and he was visibly frustrated. Brannon ran (sprinted) out and calmed him down and they got the guy swinging on the very next pitch.
Pitching was kind of interesting after Dean. I saw Luis De La Rosa for the first time. Kind of a funky delivery where he stabs the ball back and then whips it forward. All arm. I’d think that would look disconcerting from the batters box. Velocity was low: 88-89, topping out at 90 with the fastball. I really liked his slider though. High 70s-low 80s and was giving righties problems. Saw several guys tense up like it was going to hit them, only for it to fall in for a strike and he was also able to get them to chase it outside. With his delivery, I don’t see a starter and with that velocity he’s gonna have to be perfect with his command as a reliever.
Nathanael Cruz was interesting too. Fastball was sitting around 93-94 but he definitely had the most success with his curveball. Got more than a few swinging strikes with it.
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Post by sam01 on Jun 29, 2023 20:55:23 GMT -5
I didn't know Rafaela had that kind of opposite field power. Did he just run into one there or do you think he's like Mookie with the strong wrists? (Not hitting wise)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 2:23:55 GMT -5
I didn't know Rafaela had that kind of opposite field power. Did he just run into one there or do you think he's like Mookie with the strong wrists? (Not hitting wise) First, forget the Mookie comp, different tools. I liken his wrist and hand eye coordination to Pedroia, your mileage can vary. He sprays the ball all over the field with strong wrists, a fast bat and the ability to adjust to the pitch. No he didn't just run into one. That was also his first game in Woosta at SS. Already doing more than Hamilton will ever do. Every game at AAA is a game less in Boston.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 30, 2023 7:22:24 GMT -5
I didn't know Rafaela had that kind of opposite field power. Did he just run into one there or do you think he's like Mookie with the strong wrists? (Not hitting wise) First, forget the Mookie comp, different tools. I liken his wrist and hand eye coordination to Pedroia, your mileage can vary. He sprays the ball all over the field with strong wrists, a fast bat and the ability to adjust to the pitch. No he didn't just run into one. That was also his first game in Woosta at SS. Already doing more than Hamilton will ever do. Every game at AAA is a game less in Boston. More like every game in Worcester pushes back his service clock, which gets him closer to more games in Boston in 2029 or whatever.
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art
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Post by art on Jun 30, 2023 8:10:28 GMT -5
First, forget the Mookie comp, different tools. I liken his wrist and hand eye coordination to Pedroia, your mileage can vary. He sprays the ball all over the field with strong wrists, a fast bat and the ability to adjust to the pitch. No he didn't just run into one. That was also his first game in Woosta at SS. Already doing more than Hamilton will ever do. Every game at AAA is a game less in Boston. More like every game in Worcester pushes back his service clock, which gets him closer to more games in Boston in 2029 or whatever. Right now I'm a lot more interested in 2023 than 2029. Probably Bloom should be too. If this **** continues much longer he'll be a distant memory in 2029.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 8:32:00 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty much on a boat by myself with Bloom. In general, I like the direction the organization is heading. Most of the off season aquisitions have worked out well (lol, Kluber but who saw that coming ?)
The Sox biggest problem has been the Story story. That caused the disaster that is now SS. As far as Kiké is concerned, it was pretty much universally thought that Kiké would be a fine SS.
Lol. in about a week, construction begins on the upgrade of the Bloom Shrine. In maybe a month, I'll figure out how to get a picture here.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 30, 2023 8:39:07 GMT -5
More like every game in Worcester pushes back his service clock, which gets him closer to more games in Boston in 2029 or whatever. Right now I'm a lot more interested in 2023 than 2029. Probably Bloom should be too. If this **** continues much longer he'll be a distant memory in 2029. Well I also don't really buy the premise that a guy with a 107 wRC+ in AA and two games in AAA is ready to help the 2023 Red Sox. "He can't be any worse than what they have now..." I wouldn't be too sure.
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Post by cba82 on Jun 30, 2023 8:41:29 GMT -5
Enjoyed watching Isaac Coffey pitch last night — efficient, interesting arm slot, very high percentage of strikes.
Phillip Sikes, someone I’ve paid no attention to, was also intriguing.
Marcello Mayer needs many more AA at-bats.
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art
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Posts: 349
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Post by art on Jun 30, 2023 9:07:46 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty much on a boat by myself with Bloom. In general, I like the direction the organization is heading. Most of the off season aquisitions have worked out well (lol, Kluber but who saw that coming ?) The Sox biggest problem has been the Story story. That caused the disaster that is now SS. As far as Kiké is concerned, it was pretty much universally thought that Kiké would be a fine SS. Lol. in about a week, construction begins on the upgrade of the Bloom Shrine. In maybe a month, I'll figure out how to get a picture here. My comment wasn't intended as a criticism of Bloom, just as an observation that his own best interest may coincide with your apparent view, and mine, that Rafaela might help now. My view on Bloom has shifted from positive to neutral. Maybe too much churning on the periphery.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 30, 2023 9:34:32 GMT -5
I do think Rafaela could use some Triple-A seasoning, making adjustments against the sort of Quad-A strikethrowers and guys with good secondaries. The gap between Double-A and Triple-A is larger than it was pre-contraction, a lot of those veteran arms that used to bounce between Double-A and Triple-A have been a casualty there, it seems. My only concern with him isn't specific to him but of the Worcester affiliation in general - it's too easy to hit home runs there, and while his power is good he isn't someone I want to get homer-happy and start overswinging. It was a problem for Duran and I think we're seeing it with Hamilton too (though overswinging was a problem for him in the first half last year with Portland before he made an adjustment).
Defensively he's a clear major leaguer at two positions of need, which obviously makes it very tempting to rush.
I don't get the service time argument, there's a realistic chance he's in the majors opening day 2024, so calling him up now wouldn't change that clock. There's the silly Rookie of the Year thing but I don't think you can manage your roster based on that.
So yeah, short answer: I wouldn't call him up yet but I don't think it's crazy.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 9:59:12 GMT -5
My thought is that it doesn't matter that his bat isn't ready. Everybody in Boston's SS bat is in the toilet anyways. He'd be a major-major upgrade defensively, him and Arroyo would be one of the better defensive middle infield's in baseball. An additional benefit would be that Kiké could spend more time in CF and 2B where he's a plus defender as well.
Story is more than a month away. When he's ready, you could return him to AAA for more seasoning if needed.
Service time is moot when the season is on the line.
Sidenote, No way the Sox tender Kiké (or Pivetta) this coming offseason so, this is a 2023 issue.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 30, 2023 10:32:16 GMT -5
My thought is that it doesn't matter that his bat isn't ready. Everybody in Boston's SS bat is in the toilet anyways. He'd be a major-major upgrade defensively, him and Arroyo would be one of the better defensive middle infield's in baseball. An additional benefit would be that Kiké could spend more time in CF and 2B where he's a plus defender as well. Story is more than a month away. When he's ready, you could return him to AAA for more seasoning if needed. Service time is moot when the season is on the line. Sidenote, No way the Sox tender Kiké (or Pivetta) this coming offseason so, this is a 2023 issue. Like I said, I don't think you're wrong, it's just not what I'd do. Jackie Bradley was kind of a similar circumstance, and rushing him really seemed to mess him up for a couple of years. The risk/reward of calling him up, even just for a month, isn't where I'm comfortable yet. But, like, they very obviously need a better defensive shortstop (and/or center fielder) and they have one sitting in Triple-A on the 40-man roster, so believe me I do get it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 30, 2023 11:30:59 GMT -5
I dont like the thought of rushing a guy like Rafaela at all, but I think the Sox are in a dark place where they need to.
The Sox have had little offense out of the position and the defense there has been disastrous and is absolutely killing the team.
If Rafaela is the gold Glover at SS they say he can be, then they need to call him up for his defense and the Sox need to tell him to concentrate on what he does best, field. Dont worry about the offense.
I think no offense/strong defense is a vast upgrade from little offense/unacceptable defense.
I know there will be kvetching about his offense, but it would be something we all have to live with until Story returns.
They just have to tell Rafaela to consider it a learning experience if he indeed drowns offensively, not to worry about it and just concentrate on his defense.
With JBJ, the Sox still had Ellsbury in 2013 so I didnt understand the need to jump him up to the majors. Unless Bloom finds a legit SS somewhere they have to call up Rafaela. Otherwise they will continue to get destroyed by their defense.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jun 30, 2023 11:51:10 GMT -5
Would he even be an above average defensive SS right now? I know he's supposed to be all-world out in CF, but all the reports I've heard about his defense at shortstop talk more about potential than present value.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 30, 2023 11:52:53 GMT -5
I was about to come and say the same thing as Fenwaydouble above. From what I've read he could be one of the best defensive OFers in the MLB right now but at SS he's average-above average which still sounds better than anyone else they'd have to play SS right now until Chang or Reyes are back.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 30, 2023 12:03:09 GMT -5
I think we need to keep an eye on where he's playing in Worcester. If he's getting more time at short than previous, that could be a tell about their thoughts.
He also strikes me as a guy who could use AAA reps at the plate. They didn't move him from Portland to Worcester like a guy they're anxious to put in MLB (they probably could've justified the promotion 2-3 weeks sooner). Bringing him up too soon to play his second position and get carved by MLB pitching strikes me as a recipe for disaster.
He's at least above-average at short.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 30, 2023 12:56:07 GMT -5
I think people are too easily sliding down the slope of "the offense at SS has been poor anyway, so might as well go with a no-bat option that can at least field the position." A 70 wRC+ and a 20 wRC+ are both "bad" but the difference between the two is the same as the difference between 120 and 70 - which is to say, huge. There is definitely downside risk for the team in throwing Rafaela into the fire, even before you get into the question of whether it's optimal for Rafaela's development.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 30, 2023 12:58:01 GMT -5
I want to see a Venn diagram of the people who think Rafaela should be in the majors and the people who complained about JBJ for most of his Red Sox tenure
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 18:22:27 GMT -5
For all the complaints, JBJ was a 2fWAR/yr. player for the Sox.
Like Rafaela, he was a joy to watch.
ADD: Also pretty clearly a bad comp offensively, two completely different batting approaches and tools skills.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 18:38:19 GMT -5
Interesting discussion.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 30, 2023 18:57:43 GMT -5
I think we need to keep an eye on where he's playing in Worcester. If he's getting more time at short than previous, that could be a tell about their thoughts.He also strikes me as a guy who could use AAA reps at the plate. They didn't move him from Portland to Worcester like a guy they're anxious to put in MLB (they probably could've justified the promotion 2-3 weeks sooner). Bringing him up too soon to play his second position and get carved by MLB pitching strikes me as a recipe for disaster. He's at least above-average at short. 2nd game in a row at SS. I can't remember ever seeing that before.
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