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Post by carl4sox on Sept 28, 2023 11:10:22 GMT -5
Who do we resign, and when?
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 28, 2023 11:59:47 GMT -5
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Post by carl4sox on Sept 28, 2023 12:11:31 GMT -5
Sorry — I meant our own free agents. Like JT, Duvall, Chris Martin, et al.
Will anyone be making those decisions before free agency begins?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 28, 2023 12:22:29 GMT -5
Sorry — I meant our own free agents. Like JT, Duvall, Chris Martin, et al. Will anyone be making those decisions before free agency begins? Martin isnt a free agent. Duvall is the only one I want back. I like Turner (although JD Martinez did have a better season at the plate, albeit with help from his batting coach), but I dont think given their configuration that he'll fit. Paxton can go.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 28, 2023 12:26:25 GMT -5
Meanwhile, how will they leverage the 15 day exclusive signing period after the W.S. without a POBO? Or does Kennedy/Werner/Henry really think they'll have someone on board by then?
Or does it even matter with this rather weak crop of FAs on the team? I say this firmly believing Turner and probably Duvall are eager to test the open market, especially given how few bats are out there.
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Post by carl4sox on Sept 28, 2023 13:18:04 GMT -5
Nick Pivetta’s one as well, no? Let AC sign them, not the fools at the top.
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Post by SlugLife on Sept 28, 2023 15:06:42 GMT -5
Nick Pivetta’s one as well, no? Let AC sign them, not the fools at the top. There are any number of easily accessible websites that can help you figure out who is a free agent and who is not. The best resource in my opinion is Cot's Contracts.
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Post by carl4sox on Sept 28, 2023 15:12:35 GMT -5
Thanks, seadog
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 28, 2023 15:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by vmoss on Sept 28, 2023 19:17:59 GMT -5
What are the chances that Turner gets a qualifying offer?
Thanks.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 28, 2023 19:24:58 GMT -5
What are the chances that Turner gets a qualifying offer? Thanks. 0% he is not eligible
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 28, 2023 19:33:34 GMT -5
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 28, 2023 20:36:33 GMT -5
For me, no Paxton, he's pretty much done (9.39 ERA, .983 oOPS on regular rest).
No Duvall, he'll attract a lot more interest than last winter and I don't like the odds of him catching lighting in a bottle again. As hyper-streaky guys like him age, the hot streaks get shorter and the cold streaks longer.
Maybe Mondesi on a minor league deal if he's healthy but there's nothing particularly special about him and the club's middle-IF depth has improved. His game is speed and he'll be coming back from a freshly repaired wheel.
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Post by SlugLife on Sept 29, 2023 5:14:05 GMT -5
I hope no offense taken that I somehow thought of Cot's before Sox Prospects while also posting on Sox Prospects
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 29, 2023 8:10:22 GMT -5
If the Sox are comfortable with Paxtons medicals, I would not be opposed to him getting a Q.O.
Yes, he has not looked great down the stretch. The same thing could have been said about Wacha last year posting a 5.57 ERA in his final 6 starts.
Paxton has pitched 96 innings this year after 0 last year and more than he has in 4 years. I think one can reasonably say he may be fatigued, and if medically speaking is fine, then it's fair to assume that in his second season back and after a full offseason he could go further and still be effective.
Is it a risk? yes, but I'd like to see it in conjunction with 2 big-time guys signed as well.
If the Sox plan on going over the luxury tax next year, and they're comfortable with his medicals, then sign me up.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 29, 2023 8:26:56 GMT -5
If the Sox are comfortable with Paxtons medicals, I would not be opposed to him getting a Q.O. Yes, he has not looked great down the stretch. The same thing could have been said about Wacha last year posting a 5.57 ERA in his final 6 starts. Paxton has pitched 96 innings this year after 0 last year and more than he has in 4 years. I think one can reasonably say he may be fatigued, and if medically speaking is fine, then it's fair to assume that in his second season back and after a full offseason he could go further and still be effective. Is it a risk? yes, but I'd like to see it in conjunction with 2 big-time guys signed as well. If the Sox plan on going over the luxury tax next year, and they're comfortable with his medicals, then sign me up. If they plan on going over it doesn’t hurt them, they just need to make sure they aren’t counting on him (which in your scenario they wouldn’t be counting on him)
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 29, 2023 8:31:26 GMT -5
If I had to guess I'd say maybe they go 15-20M over the LT in 2024 which would put the payroll ceiling at about $255M. Do we really need to be allocating 20M of that to Paxton? No thanks, it's not as if the 2024 Red Sox are going to operate like the NYM last offseason and have seemingly unlimited money. That money would be way better off spent elsewhere, heck throw $20M on a one year deal to Giolito or someone like that if they want to take a one year higher dollar flier on a pitcher.
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Post by SlugLife on Sept 29, 2023 8:48:05 GMT -5
To me the most important guy to resign is Adam Duvall, especially if Verdugo and/or Duran are traded. Ideally he starts in left field and splits time with Yoshida between LF and DH, but he could also provide depth if Rafaela and/or Abreu are penciled in as starters. I imagine he'll require something in the range of 2 years/$25 million, which I think is completely worth it for a versatile RHH outfielder who has really thrived in Boston.
I love Justin Turner but with improving the defense a priority, shifting Yoshida to DH most days and adding capable RHH defenders should be the priority.
I could be persuaded that someone like Mark Canha, Randall Grichuk, or even Garrett Cooper or Brian Anderson might be a better value, but Duvall seems like a guy worth being the high bidder for.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 29, 2023 8:48:35 GMT -5
If I had to guess I'd say maybe they go 15-20M over the LT in 2024 which would put the payroll ceiling at about $255M. Do we really need to be allocating 20M of that to Paxton? No thanks, it's not as if the 2024 Red Sox are going to operate like the NYM last offseason and have seemingly unlimited money. That money would be way better off spent elsewhere, heck throw $20M on a one year deal to Giolito or someone like that if they want to take a one year higher dollar flier on a pitcher. Fighting for a Paxton Q.O. isn't exactly a hill I'm willing to die on here, but allow me to half ass a defense for him before moving on. Has Henry ever gone above the second threshold before? not sure the argument can be made to do so with this team as is, but if he has...it's just one year. In that scenario, the money is there If he is not, I'm inclined to change my stance. Committing $20 million to Paxton probably means you can only sign one from the (Yama, Snell, Nola,Ohtani) camp (if you want to go the FA route for pitching, I do). And I think the team can use two of those guys. Not saying they will get two premium guys but it would really fill in the roster nice by beefing up the rotation and putting good talent permenantly into the bullpen. If the firing of Bloom is an indication that Henry wants to spend money and doesn't trust Chaim to be the guy to do it, this isn't that unrealistic at all. Of course saying Bloom was fired to bring in a guy who can sign free agents is conjecture on my part admittedly. But if so, the money is there, or the willingness, it's just one year. If Paxton can put together a year in which he can throw 130-150 innings like he did around 2017-2019 he's likely well worth it. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be highly confident in it, but I'd be optimistic he can in 2024. If Giolito would take a one year $20 million deal, I'd be very cool with that.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 29, 2023 8:58:51 GMT -5
If I had to guess I'd say maybe they go 15-20M over the LT in 2024 which would put the payroll ceiling at about $255M. Do we really need to be allocating 20M of that to Paxton? No thanks, it's not as if the 2024 Red Sox are going to operate like the NYM last offseason and have seemingly unlimited money. That money would be way better off spent elsewhere, heck throw $20M on a one year deal to Giolito or someone like that if they want to take a one year higher dollar flier on a pitcher. Fighting for a Paxton Q.O. isn't exactly a hill I'm willing to die on here, but allow me to half ass a defense for him before moving on. Has Henry ever gone above the second threshold before? not sure the argument can be made to do so with this team as is, but if he has...it's just one year. In that scenario, the money is there If he is not, I'm inclined to change my stance. Committing $20 million to Paxton probably means you can only sign one from the (Yama, Snell, Nola,Ohtani) camp (if you want to go the FA route for pitching, I do). And I think the team can use two of those guys. Not saying they will get two premium guys but it would really fill in the roster nice by beefing up the rotation and putting good talent permenantly into the bullpen. If the firing of Bloom is an indication that Henry wants to spend money and doesn't trust Chaim to be the guy to do it, this isn't that unrealistic at all. Of course saying Bloom was fired to bring in a guy who can sign free agents is conjecture on my part admittedly. But if so, the money is there, or the willingness, it's just one year. If Paxton can put together a year in which he can throw 130-150 innings like he did around 2017-2019 he's likely well worth it. If I was a betting man I wouldn't be highly confident in it, but I'd be optimistic he can in 2024. If Giolito would take a one year $20 million deal, I'd be very cool with that. I'm fine with idea of Paxton being back for maybe 10ish mil guaranteed with incentives to push it to $20M I just don't think they're likely to break even in value on a $20M guaranteed contract for Paxton. That being said I'll put my hand up and admit that 2 months ago at the deadline I was fine with the idea so it's not as if I'd be outraged if they did it. I do now believe that the money could be spent better on another SP than him at that price anyway. I have no idea if Giolito would take a 1 year deal, probably not but was just a spitball idea I had. He's had a couple down seasons in a row but is still just 29. My thought was maybe he'd bet on himself, take a one year pillow deal and try and get a bigger deal next offseason. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if some team offered him 4-5 years at 15ish mil which if so I'd imagine he'd rather that deal than the deal I proposed. I'd honestly probably be fine with giving him said 4-5 year deal too though but that would depend on if they strike out on the guys above him. They need pitching badly, Giolito has taken the ball 30+ games each of the last 3 seasons and I think he'd slide in nicely as the #4 with some good upside to be better.
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Post by terriblehondo on Sept 29, 2023 9:10:33 GMT -5
Maybe just maybe Justin Turner says he just loved Boston and opts in. I don't think so because he should make more by opting out but if he does it messes up roster construction for next year too.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 29, 2023 9:22:19 GMT -5
There's no reason to QO Paxton though, if they want him back they could agree to a lower number, I'm pretty positive he would accept the QO so you're not getting some potential draft pick benefit.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 29, 2023 11:08:44 GMT -5
To me, a Paxton QO would be madness. The QO is the 125th highest salary in the league, right? There's no way that he merits that (on average a team's 4th highest salary). As I wrote above, he was hopeless on regular rest this year, he has a long and eclectic injury history, and he will be one year older.
Perhaps the biggest problem the Sox had this year is that they went into the season with a bunch of injury-history question marks in the starting rotation (mostly because they were "bargains"). Predictably, many of those, including Paxton, got hurt again and when they were "healthy" couldn't go more than a 4-5 IP and/or needed extra rest between starts. Ipso fatso, the bullpen was burnt out and the pitching depth burned through.
Bringing back Paxton in any capacity would be a big misstep, IMO. Give me horses. Paxton would just be in the way.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 29, 2023 11:15:44 GMT -5
Maybe just maybe Justin Turner says he just loved Boston and opts in. I don't think so because he should make more by opting out but if he does it messes up roster construction for next year too. The decision for him is whether he thinks he can get $6.7m on the open market. I get the inclination to look at $13.4m and think "well maybe he likes it here" but the amount of money he'd be punting on is nuts. He's getting way more than that. Heck, he might've opted out with no buyout at all. The deal was designed for him to opt out unless he was putrid this year. If he wants to stay, the move is work out an extension.
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Post by terriblehondo on Sept 29, 2023 11:36:10 GMT -5
Maybe just maybe Justin Turner says he just loved Boston and opts in. I don't think so because he should make more by opting out but if he does it messes up roster construction for next year too. The decision for him is whether he thinks he can get $6.7m on the open market. I get the inclination to look at $13.4m and think "well maybe he likes it here" but the amount of money he'd be punting on is nuts. He's getting way more than that. Heck, he might've opted out with no buyout at all. The deal was designed for him to opt out unless he was putrid this year. If he wants to stay, the move is work out an extension. Well I hope you are right and there is a solid well paying market for him. As much as I like him I think not having him at DH would help the team construction for next year.
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