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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 11, 2024 0:56:59 GMT -5
I should think that if Montgomery brought them over the line, they'd trade Jansen and get back under.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 12, 2024 7:14:33 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons:
1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage.
It will never happen.
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Post by strike23 on Mar 12, 2024 8:30:26 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons:
1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage.
It will never happen.
Greinke would be cool but I want Rich Hill so that we can have Dick Mountain and Dick Fitts on the same roster.
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Post by patford on Mar 12, 2024 8:37:49 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons:
1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage.
It will never happen.
I love Greinke.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 12, 2024 8:46:10 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons:
1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage.
It will never happen.
Greinke would be cool but I want Rich Hill so that we can have Dick Mountain and Dick Fitts on the same roster. Your argument is sound. However, I got the sense that Dick M. was one of the grouchy guys on that 2022 team who complained about Casas sunbathing and Plawecki being DFA's and whatnot and I think he could be a bad influence on the youths. Whereas Greinke and Casas hanging out is about the most delightful thing I could imagine.
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Post by patford on Mar 12, 2024 8:57:25 GMT -5
Greinke would be cool but I want Rich Hill so that we can have Dick Mountain and Dick Fitts on the same roster. Your argument is sound. However, I got the sense that Dick M. was one of the grouchy guys on that 2022 team who complained about Casas sunbathing and Plawecki being DFA's and whatnot and I think he could be a bad influence on the youths. Whereas Greinke and Casas hanging out is about the most delightful thing I could imagine. I've seen a couple of stories just now saying due to the possible Cole injury (that also hints the Yankees already know something) they are talking to Greinke.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 12, 2024 10:33:41 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons: 1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage. It will never happen.
Greinke has been so good, but had such poor timing on his teams. During his career he played for the Royals, Dodgers, and Astros for extended periods of time. All Of those teams won rings after he left.
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Post by trotman on Mar 12, 2024 10:54:16 GMT -5
They should sign Greinke. So many reasons: 1) Cool dude. 2) Good supporting cast member for the Netflix documentary. 3) Only 21 Ks away from 3000: make it happen in Boston. 4) It would be fun and good for ~~~***The PR***~~~.
5) A veteran to take the young pitchers under his wing, something the team is clean out of at this point. 6) Projections are comparable to Clevinger and Lorenzen (slightly better by Steamer, slightly worse than ZiPS) and he'd be cheaper. 7) Minuscule walk rate limits the damage. It will never happen.
Greinke has been so good, but had such poor timing on his teams. During his career he played for the Royals, Dodgers, and Astros for extended periods of time. All Of those teams won rings after he left. Even better. Let's keep the tradition going.
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Post by itinerantherb on Mar 13, 2024 19:12:05 GMT -5
Perhaps this has already been shared, but Szymborski listed Nick among his top five pitching "breakout" candidates for 2024. Here's the write-up: "No name at the top of 2023 stuff leaderboard may be more surprising than Nick Pivetta’s, especially if, like most people, you didn’t pay a lot of attention to the Red Sox in the second half of last season. Pivetta lost his starting job in mid-May, went to the bullpen and added a sweeper. The new pitch turned his season around and he returned to the rotation for good in September, making five starts to close the season. In those final five outings, he recorded 38 strikeouts and just five walks across 30 innings. Most encouragingly, Pivetta pitched seven scoreless innings in each of his final two starts. He had the fourth-biggest jump in Stuff+ from the first half to the second half. And you can see it in the results." The article includes a pretty remarkable graphic (which I can't figure out how to embed here) illustrating his plunging contact % over the last couple months of the season. It's about half way down the page. Here's the link: blogs.fangraphs.com/szymborskis-2024-booms-and-busts-pitchers/
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 13, 2024 20:43:34 GMT -5
Here you go. Now this has the FanGraphs logo prominently displayed, and you've embedded the link so I hope this passes muster on giving credit:
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Post by itinerantherb on Mar 18, 2024 10:31:30 GMT -5
“It would be unfair to say we overlooked him, but we just weren’t as familiar with him given that he wasn’t with us,” chief baseball officer Craig Breslow said of Criswell. “I think what has been impressive and what we knew we were getting is an elite strike-thrower. I think there were some questions as to whether or not we can help boost the stuff and I think in pretty short order, it’s ticked up a little bit while maintaining the ability to shape pitches very, very well and pounding the strike zone. So I think he’s definitely put himself in the conversation.” theathletic.com/5342516/2024/03/18/red-sox-roster-projection-josh-winckowksi-ceddanne-rafaela/He probably still starts in AAA because he has options but if he can be a plausible back-end starter, that would be quite a nice find.
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Post by asm18 on Mar 21, 2024 9:56:01 GMT -5
If I'm the Red Sox, I'm copying and pasting the Lucas Giolito contract from whatever Google Drive folder I had it in and emailing that over to Boras for Jordan Montgomery. If Monty's willing to sign now (as opposed to waiting until March 29th so he can avoid a qualifying offer next winter) you can tack on a few extra mil in AAV.
For Montgomery: -you will get paid close to 20 mil dollars despite likely missing a month building up because you missed all of Spring Training -you get your "pillow" in the form of the player option -you get to live in the same city as your wife as she allegedly finishes her medical residency/intership in Boston this summer
For the Red Sox (aka what Craig Breslow can pitch to John Henry): -you can stay under the CBT -you avoid the bogeyman of a long term deal for a pitcher over 30 -because Montgomery will need to build up, you can have Houck and Whitlock still have some runway to establish themselves as starters. If someone is hurt or bad, Montgomery is there to take over. If everyone is healthy and good (which would be dope) you can try a 6 man rotation if you reeaaaally don't want to move those guys to the pen. -you get the innings you lost from the Giolito injury -as a bonus, you get some fun PR literally just as the season is starting
This makes too much sense... and so it probably won't happen.
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Post by asm18 on Mar 22, 2024 13:14:39 GMT -5
From Alex Speier today: www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/22/sports/red-sox-pitching-houck-whitlock-giolito/I'm in the 99% percentile in terms of Whitlock-is-a-starter, and probably like Houck in that role more than many... but it's kinda weird to have this laid out as the team mindset when the team originally didn't plan to have both in the rotation in the first place (they had expected 180 innings of Giolito and only one would have a rotation spot.) It almost feels like when they gave Whitlock and Houck assignments from Andrew Bailey and the pitching infrastructure team to work on in the offseason, they didn't actually expect them to meet those expectations. Now Whitlock is jacked and throwing multiple new pitches and Houck reportedly has had the highest velo jump on the team. Did plans change once they got to Spring Training?
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Post by carmenfanzone on Mar 22, 2024 14:13:08 GMT -5
I live in the Detroit area and according to the local papers they have 6 Cy Young award winning starters, one of whom they will start in the minors.
Every team thinks its players are all going to be much improved at this time of the year. It rarely works out that way. To have 4 solid spots and 1 spot where you are banking having one of 2 or 3 options get much better is one thing. To have 5 guys, all of whom who you are counting on getting much better, with little or no depth behind them is totally different.
I hope I am wrong.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,770
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Post by mobaz on Mar 22, 2024 15:02:34 GMT -5
That's a lot of internally developed pitchers for a team that can't develop pitchers. I'm giving credit for Whitlock since his only ML experience is here and he's grown here (as has Pivtetta BTW). Now, rubber meet road.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 27, 2024 10:59:44 GMT -5
The Athletic's Eno Sarris is bullish about Sox starters in 2024: "The Red Sox have a top-five American League rotation" From the article:
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Post by Guidas on Mar 27, 2024 12:47:22 GMT -5
The Athletic's Eno Sarris is bullish about Sox starters in 2024: "The Red Sox have a top-five American League rotation" From the article: I love Saris and think he's more comprehensive on pitching than virtually all of the other big outlet writers. If this is correct, the Sox will win 92 or more games. If Eno's misreading the spring tea leaves - and I've long been told that spring outcomes are virtually meaningless - then this staff will be at or below the mean being predicted by this board. We should have a good idea about 50 games in what this staff is and is not.
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Post by itinerantherb on Mar 27, 2024 15:23:13 GMT -5
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Post by pappyman99 on Mar 27, 2024 17:00:28 GMT -5
They will be a top rotation or bottom 5 even assuming health
So many wildcards and enigmas
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Post by incandenza on Mar 28, 2024 7:59:05 GMT -5
Fangraphs has the Red Sox rotation as middling at best (21st in the majors by projected WAR). But it's interesting to see just how flat it as - relatively weaker at the front and stronger at the back. Here's how they rank when sorting each team's top 5 starters by projected WAR total:
SP1 (Bello): t-25th SP2 (Pivetta): t-21st SP3 (Crawford): t-18th SP4 (Houck): t-11th SP5 (Whitlock): t-5th
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Post by asm18 on Mar 28, 2024 9:30:27 GMT -5
Fangraphs has the Red Sox rotation as middling at best (21st in the majors by projected WAR). But it's interesting to see just how flat it as - relatively weaker at the front and stronger at the back. Here's how they rank when sorting each team's top 5 starters by projected WAR total:
SP1 (Bello): t-25th SP2 (Pivetta): t-21st SP3 (Crawford): t-18th SP4 (Houck): t-11th SP5 (Whitlock): t-5th
So all the consternation about Houck and Whitlock as starters aaaand... they project to be better the majority of other 4th or 5th starters. Cool. It's kinda ironic to me that objective data-driven sources like Fangraphs or Eno Sarris have higher views of this rotation than the beat writers who cover the team every day. Peter Abraham wrote yesterday, "You can make a good argument that Crawford, Houck, Pivetta, and Whitlock are all relievers posing as starters," while Cotillo was griping on his podcast Tuesday about Whitlock being a starter. Obviously spring training performance can be often be deceiving... but you'd think the folks who would buy into this rotation being better than expected would be beat writers folks who saw positive spring results right in front of their own eyeballs. I get that this is a thin and not necessarily established starter group at the moment, but like with Chris Sale health concerns last year I'm not going to just assume someone is going to get injured/kidnapped/hit by a bus/retires to join a commune until it actually happens. Sometimes you get 2022 bad health luck - and sometimes you get 2021. We'll find out which is it soon enough.
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Post by sxfan on Mar 28, 2024 20:47:28 GMT -5
It's official, we wasted our whole off-season talking about a guy who never wanted to be here in the first place. Money talks, but seems like the Sox would have need to blow away Montgomery to sign here. That would have been a dumb decision and they stuck to their guns. Good for the Sox.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 28, 2024 20:53:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't read too much into Jon Heyman reporting that Scott Boras is all sour grapes about the Boston Red Sox as a free agent destination
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on Mar 29, 2024 5:31:14 GMT -5
It's official, we wasted our whole off-season talking about a guy who never wanted to be here in the first place. Money talks, but seems like the Sox would have need to blow away Montgomery to sign here. That would have been a dumb decision and they stuck to their guns. Good for the Sox. Beggars can’t be choosers and Boras can try to spin it any way he wants, but they were begging for a deal by the end of the offseason.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 29, 2024 8:48:12 GMT -5
It's still early but so far the scorecard reads:
Red Sox pathetic rotation* - 1 Mariners vaunted rotation - 0
*along with Pete Abe's snarky comment, Steve Adams of MLBTR described the Sox rotation as "in shambles" on their most recent podcast, implying that one reason the Sox didn't outbid Arizona for Montgomery is that they are punting on 2024, in part because the rest of the roster is "rife with holes."
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