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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 30, 2023 21:17:16 GMT -5
Is there any more pressing issue for the next POOBAH? Short answer: no.
Which five starting pitchers would you like to see going north from Ft. Myers?
As always, feel free to provides blueprints/reveal fantasies in the comments...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Sept 30, 2023 22:13:51 GMT -5
1. Sale - He's already been announced as 2024 Opening Day starter; here's hoping he looks the part in Ft. Myers after his first fully healthy off-season since he changed Sox.
2. Yamamoto - Just overpay him. He's 25 and could be the best pitcher to ever cross the Pacific.
3. Pivetta - Has he finally figured it all out? Just in time for a giant payday 14 months from now?
4. Bello - Some growing pains this year but he more than showed he deserves a regular turn. Just stop asking him to wake up for day games.
5. Crawford - I've been pounding the drum for him to remain as a starter since early 2022, when most were dismissing him as just another minor-league starter with a relief ceiling. Cora has always maintained that he's a starter and now he's making his manager look like a sage. Who knew that learning to be a big-league starter takes more than just a spring training and a few April starts?
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Post by asm19 on Sept 30, 2023 22:54:10 GMT -5
I went with 1) new addition (let’s say trade - Glasnow or Burnes), 2) new addition (Yamamoto, Nola, etc), 3) Bello, 4) Sale, and 5) Pivetta - but for the fifth spot I’m happy to let Pivetta, Crawford, & Whitlock fight for the spot in spring training and you figure it out from there.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 1, 2023 17:47:11 GMT -5
1. Sale - He's already been announced as 2024 Opening Day starter; here's hoping he looks the part in Ft. Myers after his first fully healthy off-season since he changed Sox. 2. Yamamoto - Just overpay him. He's 25 and could be the best pitcher to ever cross the Pacific. 3. Pivetta - Has he finally figured it all out? Just in time for a giant payday 14 months from now? 4. Bello - Some growing pains this year but he more than showed he deserves a regular turn. Just stop asking him to wake up for day games. 5. Crawford - I've been pounding the drum for him to remain as a starter since early 2022, when most were dismissing him as just another minor-league starter with a relief ceiling. Cora has always maintained that he's a starter and now he's making his manager look like a sage. Who knew that learning to be a big-league starter takes more than just a spring training and a few April starts? These are the exact five I had in mind also. Pivetta pitched remarkably well the last 4(ish) months. He had some of the best numbers in the MLB over his last 102 innings (142 innings - 110 hits is awesome, 31% strikeout rate…..), and that is not a small sample size. Yamamoto looks like an ace…..pay him! Crawford has been great in terms of whip and strikeouts through the minors, and I have been expecting him to turn into a solid MLB starter since he reached AA. Bello is good and young with a bright future. Sale will be good IF he stays healthy. I hope the Red Sox sign sufficient depth in the offseason, so that the constant churn of waiver claims pitching in Boston is kept to a minimum, and please stop signing injured players expecting them to come off the IL (Mondesi, Paxton 2022, …. ), and perform to their per injury capacity. |
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Post by incandenza on Oct 1, 2023 17:51:29 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on?
I might would add three...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 1, 2023 18:02:56 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on? I might would add three... I chose 2 but your view of 3 is certainly very reasonable. I was waffling on that. They probably need 2 top flight starters and a reasonably reliable #4 starter as well. A lot of money could also be spent not just on a top flight starter or two but also on either Ohtani, Soto, or Trout. I wouldnt be shocked if the Sox landed one of them. Given how their offense took extended naps, they could probably use more offense as well. Truly good Red Sox teams are usually at or very near the top in runs scored. |
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Oct 1, 2023 18:23:16 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on? I might would add three... I said one, but two might be closer to the truth. I had four current guys in the rotation: Sale, Bello, Houck, and Crawford, and I *would* like to see them in the rotation. So I might be more inclined to adding a legit front-line guy and a swing guy. Part of my issue is I just don’t know who the two signees would be. Snell and Nola frighten me. Yamamoto might be fine, but he’s a total X factor. Montgomery is ok but hardly the difference maker. I guess I need a bit of time to work myself towards taking the dive, if that makes sense. If they went out and signed, say, Yamamoto and Snell, I bet I’d be psyched. But in advance, I don’t have the daring to advocate for it. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 1, 2023 18:25:09 GMT -5
Yamamoto
Montgomery
Bello
Sale
Pivetta (or Kutter, whoever you prefer)
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Post by incandenza on Oct 1, 2023 18:32:09 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on? I might would add three... I said one, but two might be closer to the truth. I had four current guys in the rotation: Sale, Bello, Houck, and Crawford, and I *would* like to see them in the rotation. So I might be more inclined to adding a legit front-line guy and a swing guy. Part of my issue is I just don’t know who the two signees would be. Snell and Nola frighten me. Yamamoto might be fine, but he’s a total X factor. Montgomery is ok but hardly the difference maker. I guess I need a bit of time to work myself towards taking the dive, if that makes sense. If they went out and signed, say, Yamamoto and Snell, I bet I’d be psyched. But in advance, I don’t have the daring to advocate for it. I'm not high on Snell. But if they just added, say, Montgomery and Gray, I'd be very okay with that. That gives them a better than average starter in every game (those two along with Sale, Bello, and Crawford), with Pivetta, Houck, and Whitlock in reserve, and that in turn makes for a potentially lockdown bullpen. In short, it's not so much that they need to add an ace or two; it's that they need to make sure to avoid the Bear Claw and Dermot Mulroney* and worn-down-Paxton type games.
*the homophobe guy, I know that's not his name but it's something like that isn't it?
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Post by Canseco on Oct 1, 2023 18:42:27 GMT -5
I wonder what it would cost to sign both Yamamoto and Imanaga? Those two, Sale, Bello, and Pivetta/Crawford. Return Whitlock and Houck to their proper roles as devastating multi-inning relievers.
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 1, 2023 18:43:21 GMT -5
I voted for Bello, Sale, Pivetta and two additions. I think they really should add two guys. It's a weird spot because in theory I think all of Houck, Crawford, Pivetta and Whitlock are capable starters. But I'd rather they not bank on it. Someone will get hurt so let's add more quality depth.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 1, 2023 19:07:38 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on? I might would add three... I said one, but two might be closer to the truth. I had four current guys in the rotation: Sale, Bello, Houck, and Crawford, and I *would* like to see them in the rotation. So I might be more inclined to adding a legit front-line guy and a swing guy. Part of my issue is I just don’t know who the two signees would be. Snell and Nola frighten me. Yamamoto might be fine, but he’s a total X factor. Montgomery is ok but hardly the difference maker. I guess I need a bit of time to work myself towards taking the dive, if that makes sense. If they went out and signed, say, Yamamoto and Snell, I bet I’d be psyched. But in advance, I don’t have the daring to advocate for it. This is from the Soxprospect 2024 projection page. This would be my preference with Yamamoto and Montgomery as the acquisitions, but the poll did not give six choices. It only ask for 5. If it had, more people would have picked two acquisitions as most felt Pivetta and Crawford are deserving in addition to Sale and Bello. Rotation SP Acquisition SP Acquisition RH Brayan Bello LH Chris Sale RH Kutter Crawford RH Nick Pivetta |
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Oct 1, 2023 19:18:05 GMT -5
" We won't get fooled again" is my mantra on this topic. Despite late season performances making me wonder otherwise, I am in for two starters from outside. FA or trade. Bello is a keeper and Sale is a starter period. 5th spot would be Pivetta for now as he seems to have learned some new tricks in his revised role and has the track record as a 30 game starter. Sox need to shoot high with this and get difference makers.
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Post by chaimtime on Oct 1, 2023 20:33:42 GMT -5
I said one, but two might be closer to the truth. I had four current guys in the rotation: Sale, Bello, Houck, and Crawford, and I *would* like to see them in the rotation. So I might be more inclined to adding a legit front-line guy and a swing guy. Part of my issue is I just don’t know who the two signees would be. Snell and Nola frighten me. Yamamoto might be fine, but he’s a total X factor. Montgomery is ok but hardly the difference maker. I guess I need a bit of time to work myself towards taking the dive, if that makes sense. If they went out and signed, say, Yamamoto and Snell, I bet I’d be psyched. But in advance, I don’t have the daring to advocate for it. I'm not high on Snell. But if they just added, say, Montgomery and Gray, I'd be very okay with that. That gives them a better than average starter in every game (those two along with Sale, Bello, and Crawford), with Pivetta, Houck, and Whitlock in reserve, and that in turn makes for a potentially lockdown bullpen. In short, it's not so much that they need to add an ace or two; it's that they need to make sure to avoid the Bear Claw and Dermot Mulroney* and worn-down-Paxton type games.
*the homophobe guy, I know that's not his name but it's something like that isn't it?
Matt Dermody is the name you seek |
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Post by kingstephanos on Oct 1, 2023 21:54:48 GMT -5
1 NCIS
2 NCIS
3 BELLO
4 SALE
5 CRAWFORD
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 1, 2023 22:11:10 GMT -5
I'm surprised how few people want to add two starters. With only one addition they'd be going into the season with less SP depth than they had this season. And also like, what else are they gonna spend money on? I might would add three... I said one, but two might be closer to the truth. I had four current guys in the rotation: Sale, Bello, Houck, and Crawford, and I *would* like to see them in the rotation. So I might be more inclined to adding a legit front-line guy and a swing guy. Part of my issue is I just don’t know who the two signees would be. Snell and Nola frighten me. Yamamoto might be fine, but he’s a total X factor. Montgomery is ok but hardly the difference maker. I guess I need a bit of time to work myself towards taking the dive, if that makes sense. If they went out and signed, say, Yamamoto and Snell, I bet I’d be psyched. But in advance, I don’t have the daring to advocate for it. This is why I only went with one outsider, Yamamoto. Any outsider is going to cost a pantload of money for many years. The only other guy that I would condone on those terms would be Nola, since he takes the ball every 5 days, rain or shine. Worst case scenario is he eats innings by the shovelful.
Can you swing a trade for a top-two starter? Maybe but who really wants to give one up?
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Post by keninten on Oct 2, 2023 0:00:33 GMT -5
This is a great discussion about SP. The poll on the other hand is, which 2 pitchers you choose between Kutter, Pivetta, and NCIS. I`d like all 3. Whenever they are all healthy they would get to skip a start or a 6 man staff whichever is feasible at the time. I`m not completely in favor of an ace because of the cost and risk. I`d be happy with the pitchers all being 3`s as oppossed to a 1,2,3,4,5. No idea about Yamamoto. Would have to see what the bidding is. Nola and Montgomery would be my 1st and 2nd choices. It would be cool to put a second poll about who we`d want of the FAs.
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Post by nonothing on Oct 2, 2023 7:05:23 GMT -5
I voted for Bello, Sale, Pivetta and two additions. I think they really should add two guys. It's a weird spot because in theory I think all of Houck, Crawford, Pivetta and Whitlock are capable starters. But I'd rather they not bank on it. Someone will get hurt so let's add more quality depth. I think Whitlock's body, which seems perpetually a little, if not a lot, injured... is voting for the pen. His arsenal may flash starter, but not his body. |
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 2, 2023 9:48:44 GMT -5
I don't understand why we would want to move Pivetta back into the rotation? He is clearly way more effective as a reliver as opposed to his norma 4.50-5 ERA/FIP as a starter, which he has been since 2019?
Crawford, definitely has more potential, with a floor of Pivetta. 3.83 FIP and a 3.28 xERA, mostly as a starter this year. He is also 3 years younger
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Post by pappyman99 on Oct 2, 2023 9:55:36 GMT -5
1 NCIS 2 NCIS 3 BELLO 4 SALE 5 CRAWFORD This is probably the optimal perfect world plan for 2024 |
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Post by asm19 on Oct 2, 2023 10:10:28 GMT -5
I don't understand why we would want to move Pivetta back into the rotation? He is clearly way more effective as a reliver as opposed to his norma 4.50-5 ERA/FIP as a starter, which he has been since 2019?Crawford, definitely has more potential, with a floor of Pivetta. 3.83 FIP and a 3.28 xERA, mostly as a starter this year. He is also 3 years younger Is that completely true though? Pivetta effectively was a starter from early July on, even if he would come into the game in like the 2nd or 3rd inning. Beginning July 7th, Pivetta had 10 games where he went 5 innings or more. In those games he totaled 59 innings with a 2.14 ERA, and 85 K's. That seems like a solid starter to me. I'm just glad - to many and my own surprise - that he took to being demoted to the bullpen so well. It seemed like he was going to throw a hissy fit and/or get traded, but instead he improved as a pitcher (new sweeper, approach). At least now we know he can do (and accept) that role if they have 5 starters next year the team likes better. |
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Post by incandenza on Oct 2, 2023 10:16:15 GMT -5
I don't understand why we would want to move Pivetta back into the rotation? He is clearly way more effective as a reliver as opposed to his norma 4.50-5 ERA/FIP as a starter, which he has been since 2019?Crawford, definitely has more potential, with a floor of Pivetta. 3.83 FIP and a 3.28 xERA, mostly as a starter this year. He is also 3 years younger Is that completely, true though? Pivetta effectively was a starter from early July on, even if he would come into the game in like the 2nd or 3rd inning. Beginning July 7th, Pivetta had 10 games where he went 5 innings or more. In those games he totaled 59 innings with a 2.14 ERA, and 85 K's. That seems like a solid starter to me. I'm just glad - to many and my own surprise - that he took to being demoted to the bullpen so well. It seemed like he was going to throw a hissy fit and/or get traded, but instead he improved as a pitcher (new sweeper, approach). At least now we know he can do (and accept) that role if they have 5 starters next year the team likes better. I'm not sure where this idea came from. There was that one quote where he said something to the effect of "I'm a starter and that's how I intend to help the team win," which could be interpreted very ungenerously to imply he wouldn't accept a move to the bullpen, but nothing in his career on the team has made him seem like a prima donna.
Anyway, I do wonder if something about going to the bullpen jostled something loose for him. For a few years it's seemed like he had the potential for a breakout in him and it just hadn't quite arrived. But he was damn impressive as a starter down the stretch. Or maybe it's fool's gold... I wouldn't be too surprised either way. But I think it's worth finding out.
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Post by trapperdan on Oct 2, 2023 10:27:50 GMT -5
I'm of the mind that both of these claims are true:
(1) The Sox need to acquire two front-of-the-rotation arms (my preference would be Yamamoto & Burnes, but your mileage may vary);
(2) Both Crawford and Pivetta deserve spots in the rotation
For me, the guy who needs to be moved — internally or externally — is Sale. Kutter's season tells you he's at minimum a #4 with upside... some of those underlying numbers from this year have been pretty eye-popping. Pivetta looks as though he has found something special, and has always been a guy (too often, *the* guy) you can count on to eat innings. Of the three, it's Sale, sadly, who I can depend on the least — not only to stay healthy, but to give me five adequate innings when he is. He's making what, $26 million in his final year? I'd see if another team was willing to take him on for $13, eat the rest, and reinvest that money somewhere else.
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Post by asm19 on Oct 2, 2023 10:35:24 GMT -5
Is that completely, true though? Pivetta effectively was a starter from early July on, even if he would come into the game in like the 2nd or 3rd inning. Beginning July 7th, Pivetta had 10 games where he went 5 innings or more. In those games he totaled 59 innings with a 2.14 ERA, and 85 K's. That seems like a solid starter to me. I'm just glad - to many and my own surprise - that he took to being demoted to the bullpen so well. It seemed like he was going to throw a hissy fit and/or get traded, but instead he improved as a pitcher (new sweeper, approach). At least now we know he can do (and accept) that role if they have 5 starters next year the team likes better. Where on earth did this idea come from? There was that one quote where he said something to the effect of "I'm a starter and that's how I intend to help the team win," which could be interpreted very ungenerously to imply he wouldn't accept a move to the bullpen, but nothing in his career on the team has made him seem like a prima donna.
Anyway, I do wonder if something about going to the bullpen jostled something loose for him. For a few years it's seemed like he had the potential for a breakout in him and it just hadn't quite arrived. But he was damn impressive as a starter down the stretch. Or maybe it's fool's gold... I wouldn't be too surprised either way. But I think it's worth finding out.
There were definitely some breadcrumbs of "will this guy be able to handle this" 1. There were demotion issues with the Phillies several few times where he "did not embrace the bullpen role" and did not always pitch "with intensity in every relief assignment"- theathletic.com/1198764/2019/09/10/the-disconnect-nick-pivettas-rocky-season-and-the-questions-the-phillies-must-answer/ Philly demoted him to the pen in two straight years and he didn't adjust - partly why they traded him to us! 2. There was him going out of his way to confront Sean McAdam during Spring Training about being named by McAdam as a possible odd man out of the rotation on MLB Network ("so you think I'm in the bullpen, huh?") 3. Pivetta getting feisty with Chris Cotillo when it looked like he was about to (and shortly was) demoted - In hindsight perhaps we can attribute some of that to Pivetta being a bit of a lunatic (in a good way), but based on his past in Philly there was definitely some precedent to be concerned. That said - very glad it worked out!!! |
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 2, 2023 10:39:48 GMT -5
I would like to say that Brayan Bello did not have a fantastic season, does not rate great on the pitch modeling statistics, and if I ran the team I would be looking to cash in on the trade market if there's a team in love with him.
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