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It is time to trade Rafael Devers?
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Post by julyanmorley on Feb 20, 2024 15:38:40 GMT -5
Lol, this thread went from "Should we trade Devers because this team doesn't deserve him?" To "Trade the bum he sucks" in one page
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Feb 20, 2024 15:40:18 GMT -5
Feb 20, 2024 - the day Sox fans turned on the team's best player.
I may have radically underestimated how ugly this year might be.
Please get off to a good start. Please get off to a good start. Please get off to a good start...
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Post by scottysmalls on Feb 20, 2024 15:41:49 GMT -5
Devers “revealed himself to be a coward today” man what are we even doing here
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 20, 2024 15:43:16 GMT -5
Sure, so prove to me that he has taken accountability? Oh word, you don't have shit. You've accused him of being a "coward" and not taking accountability. I think truth social might be a better place for you. Don't bother. "Breslow controls the budget, not John Henry." You're wasting your time.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 20, 2024 15:44:28 GMT -5
Lol, this thread went from "Should we trade Devers because this team doesn't deserve him?" To "Trade the bum he sucks" in one page Bring up Chase Meidroth to replace that bum Devers. I think he runs out ground balls.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 20, 2024 15:44:49 GMT -5
Please stop with the back and forth insults and trolling. This stops now.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Feb 20, 2024 15:46:57 GMT -5
The Assassination of Red Sox Nation by the Coward Rafael Devers
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Post by rhswanzey on Feb 20, 2024 16:35:11 GMT -5
This isn’t even new… both Devers and Kenley were on the record before the 2023 trade deadline about hoping for reinforcements. It’s not like they’re wrong LINK
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Post by strike23 on Feb 20, 2024 19:14:17 GMT -5
Guy makes a comment about the organization not doing enough to help the team while the team literally finished in last and literally reduced payroll and now he's a malcontent? I get wanting your players to focus on what they can control, but it literally feels like people would complain about him saying nothing and not being a "leader" in the clubhouse. He's the leader of this team. He can see what's happening around him and is stating the obvious. This team will miss the playoffs 5 out of 6 years and he's not happy about it, especially when their payroll is going down after resetting the luxury and finishing in last place. Kennedy literally announced Pedroia called him to say the exact same things. Jansen is saying he was lied to. Why is Devers getting so beat up? I've been lurking on this site for years and the blow up over these comments had me worked up enough to finally create an account. While everyone seems to be turning this into an ownership thing my issue with Devers statement is that the Red Sox biggest issue last year was not pitching (21st/30 in team ERA) it was fielding. They weren't just last in OAA they were -50 (or -51 depending on source) when the 2nd worst team in the league was -37 and Devers is one of the biggest contributors to the fielding issues (worst on the team by DRS, 3rd worst by OAA [1-Kiké, 2-casas] and 3rd worst by UZR [1-Kiké, 2-duvall]). It also speaks to clubhouse issues that regardless of what ownership does or doesn't do are unacceptable; its a young team with real breakout potential and instead of focusing on helping the rookies or fixing himself he's complaining that they aren't spending money 12 months after they gave him over $300M.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,830
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Post by nomar on Feb 20, 2024 19:21:51 GMT -5
This is all being overblown. The Red Sox aren’t that bad on paper, of course Devers wants them to add more. I’d be more concerned if he was accepting the idea that this year is lost already. He’s also not saying anything that isn’t being said a million times over by fans and media daily. I doubt the front office cares at all.
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Post by patford on Feb 20, 2024 19:52:19 GMT -5
They should trade him. He's never come close to being the super star I was wishing for and now he's actively working against the team.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,091
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Post by cdj on Feb 20, 2024 19:56:28 GMT -5
I swear to god I’ll leave and start rooting for the Pirates
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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 20, 2024 20:01:20 GMT -5
They should trade him. He's never come close to being the super star I was wishing for and now he's actively working against the team. Actively working against the team? How low is your IQ man?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2024 20:05:44 GMT -5
They should trade him. He's never come close to being the super star I was wishing for and now he's actively working against the team. Actively working against the team? By stating an opinion? Utterly ridiculous. Is working for the Red Sox supposed to be akin to living in the Soviet Union? And don't misunderstand I'm not criticizing the Red Sox organization here. I'm pushing back against the mentality of how dare he say criticize our favorite organization which is what this really amounts to. If told they could only extend one of Betts, Bogaerts or Devers I'd have preferred Betts, who I thought would hold up better due to his defense and his 7 tool talent, but that didnt happen. Bogaerts is long gone so I'm glad Devers is still around because if he wasnt theyd have zero link to any championships and a huge hole in the lineup. Is he overpaid for what he brings to the table? Sure, he's a DH bat who hasn't been disciplined to be .900 OPS bat, but he can be counted on to smash 30 homers, hit .270 plus and knock in 100 and I'd rather they overpay for that than not have that in the lineup every day. It would be scary to think how lame ass the lineup would be without him. Really, is there anybody else in the lineup that an opposing pitcher would really worry about? Casas is rapidly getting there, but he's not quite there yet. So who else? Answer: nobody. Devers should continue to be a force for the next 5 plus years or so. And at this point he is their last link to a Championship. So given the circumstances I'm glad he's here and am not going to crap on him because he stated an opinion that is hardly radical.
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Smittyw
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Posts: 1,292
Member is Online
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 20, 2024 20:13:48 GMT -5
And here I thought "2024 Free Agency" was the worst thread in SP history.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 20, 2024 20:18:21 GMT -5
They should trade him. He's never come close to being the super star I was wishing for and now he's actively working against the team. Actively working against the team? How low is your IQ man? Cut out the insults.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 20, 2024 20:24:32 GMT -5
Guy makes a comment about the organization not doing enough to help the team while the team literally finished in last and literally reduced payroll and now he's a malcontent? I get wanting your players to focus on what they can control, but it literally feels like people would complain about him saying nothing and not being a "leader" in the clubhouse. He's the leader of this team. He can see what's happening around him and is stating the obvious. This team will miss the playoffs 5 out of 6 years and he's not happy about it, especially when their payroll is going down after resetting the luxury and finishing in last place. Kennedy literally announced Pedroia called him to say the exact same things. Jansen is saying he was lied to. Why is Devers getting so beat up? I've been lurking on this site for years and the blow up over these comments had me worked up enough to finally create an account. While everyone seems to be turning this into an ownership thing my issue with Devers statement is that the Red Sox biggest issue last year was not pitching (21st/30 in team ERA) it was fielding. They weren't just last in OAA they were -50 (or -51 depending on source) when the 2nd worst team in the league was -37 and Devers is one of the biggest contributors to the fielding issues (worst on the team by DRS, 3rd worst by OAA [1-Kiké, 2-casas] and 3rd worst by UZR [1-Kiké, 2-duvall]). It also speaks to clubhouse issues that regardless of what ownership does or doesn't do are unacceptable; its a young team with real breakout potential and instead of focusing on helping the rookies or fixing himself he's complaining that they aren't spending money 12 months after they gave him over $300M. The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 20, 2024 20:29:40 GMT -5
And here I thought "2024 Free Agency" was the worst thread in SP history. Wait until the 2025 free agency thread!
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Post by carmenfanzone on Feb 20, 2024 21:28:27 GMT -5
I've been lurking on this site for years and the blow up over these comments had me worked up enough to finally create an account. While everyone seems to be turning this into an ownership thing my issue with Devers statement is that the Red Sox biggest issue last year was not pitching (21st/30 in team ERA) it was fielding. They weren't just last in OAA they were -50 (or -51 depending on source) when the 2nd worst team in the league was -37 and Devers is one of the biggest contributors to the fielding issues (worst on the team by DRS, 3rd worst by OAA [1-Kiké, 2-casas] and 3rd worst by UZR [1-Kiké, 2-duvall]). It also speaks to clubhouse issues that regardless of what ownership does or doesn't do are unacceptable; its a young team with real breakout potential and instead of focusing on helping the rookies or fixing himself he's complaining that they aren't spending money 12 months after they gave him over $300M. The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can? Totally agree with all of the above. 11th in payroll for a team with their resources? Why not re-sign Paxton for one year? Why did they not re-sign Wacha or Eovaldi the year before. I would be upset with Devers if he wasn't disappointed with the Red Sox off- season. At least he apparently wants to win. I wish I could say the same for the Red Sox management.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Feb 20, 2024 21:42:59 GMT -5
My simple, short comment is "Bravo, Raffy".
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,091
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Post by cdj on Feb 20, 2024 22:04:34 GMT -5
The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can? Totally agree with all of the above. 11th in payroll for a team with their resources? Why not re-sign Paxton for one year? Why did they not re-sign Wacha or Eovaldi the year before. I would be upset with Devers if he wasn't disappointed with the Red Sox off- season. At least he apparently wants to win. I wish I could say the same for the Red Sox management. 100%. They should at least be signing veterans they can flip to 1 year deals The Eovaldi thing I get, it wasn’t a penny pinching scenario. They offered more money.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 20, 2024 22:42:29 GMT -5
I've been lurking on this site for years and the blow up over these comments had me worked up enough to finally create an account. While everyone seems to be turning this into an ownership thing my issue with Devers statement is that the Red Sox biggest issue last year was not pitching (21st/30 in team ERA) it was fielding. They weren't just last in OAA they were -50 (or -51 depending on source) when the 2nd worst team in the league was -37 and Devers is one of the biggest contributors to the fielding issues (worst on the team by DRS, 3rd worst by OAA [1-Kiké, 2-casas] and 3rd worst by UZR [1-Kiké, 2-duvall]). It also speaks to clubhouse issues that regardless of what ownership does or doesn't do are unacceptable; its a young team with real breakout potential and instead of focusing on helping the rookies or fixing himself he's complaining that they aren't spending money 12 months after they gave him over $300M. The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can? Not to take away from your point ('the Red Sox should be spending more money') but the bolded is incorrect. I'm assuming it's taken from Spotrac (pretty solid resource for football/bball, but sucks at baseball) which doesn't have Hendricks contract (2mil), doesn't have Chris Martin's signing bonus (1.5mil; or the 2.5mil last season) and has the 13 pre-arb players (~10mil), money owed to Chris Sale (17mil), Turner's buyout (6.7mil), Joel Rodriguez' buyout (500k) and money owed to Eric Hosmer (740k) all separated. That 37.44mil extra, or about 195.5mil total for 2024 payroll (not including 40-man estimates for MiLB players or player benefits). It's a considerable jump in payroll but only raises them to 10th (still a hair behind the Cubs). Also there are still 37 (it's a weird offseason) unsigned free agents, so we should expect 1-2 more signings (big or small) and payrolls for most teams will change slightly. Cot's Contracts is half abandoned but it's still the best resource for team/player contracts (that I know of). Spotrac actually sources 'almost' all of their information from Cot's (if you click on a player in Spotrac it will have a cite for 'Baseball Prospectus' which owns Cot's). Sorry if this post is too pedantic for most.
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Post by iamnotluistiant on Feb 20, 2024 23:02:09 GMT -5
Devers is just trolling us with his comments--he wants his Sox Prospect thread to keep going...
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 21, 2024 7:26:14 GMT -5
The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can? Not to take away from your point ('the Red Sox should be spending more money') but the bolded is incorrect. I'm assuming it's taken from Spotrac (pretty solid resource for football/bball, but sucks at baseball) which doesn't have Hendricks contract (2mil), doesn't have Chris Martin's signing bonus (1.5mil; or the 2.5mil last season) and has the 13 pre-arb players (~10mil), money owed to Chris Sale (17mil), Turner's buyout (6.7mil), Joel Rodriguez' buyout (500k) and money owed to Eric Hosmer (740k) all separated. That 37.44mil extra, or about 195.5mil total for 2024 payroll (not including 40-man estimates for MiLB players or player benefits). It's a considerable jump in payroll but only raises them to 10th (still a hair behind the Cubs). Also there are still 37 (it's a weird offseason) unsigned free agents, so we should expect 1-2 more signings (big or small) and payrolls for most teams will change slightly. Cot's Contracts is half abandoned but it's still the best resource for team/player contracts (that I know of). Spotrac actually sources 'almost' all of their information from Cot's (if you click on a player in Spotrac it will have a cite for 'Baseball Prospectus' which owns Cot's). Sorry if this post is too pedantic for most. It was Sportrac, but I cross referenced it with another site, which was probably just referencing Sportrac. That's interesting about the outstanding arbitration, but do the other teams in front not have arb guys in waiting that haven't been calculated either? Sure, the Red Sox can still add free agents, but the big rumor has been the Red Sox are shopping Jansen and Martin and that the Red Sox do not want to pay a dime on Jansen's contract. That would certainly lower the payroll again. But that's good information to know. It's slightly better, but as you mentioned, 10th with their resources is still not what you'd expect.
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Post by strike23 on Feb 21, 2024 7:55:02 GMT -5
The team was 10 games out of a 3rd Wild Card and objectively got worse in pitching and hitting while having a lower payroll after resetting their luxury tax. It's not like last year was a fluke. After winning the WS in 2018 he's missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and this year looks abysmal. They paid him (I'm betting he gets more if he hits FA) but that doesn't change the fact that the 3rd most valuable team isn't in the top 10 in spending. He was miserable on defense and still had a 3.5 WAR and won the Silver Slugger. He still held up his end of the bargain. Let's say if he's the best defensive 3B in baseball, where does that get the Red Sox? 8 games out of the playoffs? 7? I'm not saying he can't be better, but he's literally the best player on this team. He's the least of their problems. Again, they're 11th in spending at $158,058,181. The Astros are 3rd at $237,303,141. Toronto is 5th at $222,601,784. In what world do the Toronto Blue Jays and Houston Astros have more payroll flexibility than the Boston Red Sox? I don't know how any of this is defensible. Kenley literally said he was lied to by the organization. Pedroia and Papelbon have relayed that the Red Sox need to spend money to help this team. I can't see why him calling out ownership is a problem. Even Teoscar Hernandez who said Fenway was his favorite park to play in had comments. "I was really excited because they were showing a lot of interest,” Hernandez said to Verlander. “But they didn't come with a good deal, so I had to decide to go somewhere else.” For me personally, I accepted last years debacle because I believed in the narrative that they were handcuffed because they wanted to reset the tax so they can splurge again. Except that didn't happen so we got 3 years of a subpar product for nothing. First it was they were barely over, then they needed to reset it, now what? I have to keep asking, if Devers can't be the one to spread the message, what other active player on this roster can? Totally agree with all of the above. 11th in payroll for a team with their resources? Why not re-sign Paxton for one year? Why did they not re-sign Wacha or Eovaldi the year before. I would be upset with Devers if he wasn't disappointed with the Red Sox off- season. At least he apparently wants to win. I wish I could say the same for the Red Sox management. I've got plenty of issues with how the front office/ownership has handled the past several years, none of that factors into my feelings about Devers comments and its why I don't care as much about Jansen's comments or at all about Pedroia/Papelbon's comments. Devers is supposed to be the highly paid veteran leader of this team and instead of talking up the young talent and trying to create a positive environment for the upcoming season he's whining about the FO. If he made these comments during or after the September collapse I'd also be more ok with it but real games start in a month and unless anyone thinks they should be paying 7/210 for Snell or 7/175 for Montgomery there's nothing for the FO to do until Boras gets reasonable. Clubhouse attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy, its why the Barraclough game was such a disaster, everyone gave up and a team that was 8 games above .500 on August 26 finished with 78 wins. I'll go more in depth in the best/worst case thread but while this team is probably a true talent ~.500 team it feels like everyone is heavily focused on the downside and ignoring the upside, unfortunately its not just the media but the guys on the team as well.
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