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2024 Spring Training - Gameday Thread
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Post by ephus on Feb 29, 2024 14:24:12 GMT -5
Roman Anthony is very good a baseball. When the team has some righthanded pop to intersperse with Raffy, Casas and Anthony we will have much fun.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,164
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Post by cdj on Feb 29, 2024 14:25:47 GMT -5
Lou Merloni on Roman Anthony: people in the org told me if they let him play early in camp "he'll try to make the team" Love that mentality even if it’s a little unrealistic He’s not here to take part he’s here to take over
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Post by asm18 on Feb 29, 2024 14:28:56 GMT -5
Blizzards39 - Merloni on radio saying Whitlock was sitting 92-93 with the fastball, but humped it up to 95 towards the end. Is that matching the eye-test? 92-93 sounds solid to me at this point in ST. Don't need him over throwing and hurting himself. Of the whitlock/houck/Crawford/Winckowski combo I feel like Whitlock has the most upside to be a really good SP. I think Houck and Crawford could be too and I get trying it again with Winckowski but I'd be a little surprised if he stuck as an SP but you never know. Whitlock is in the 100th percentile of extension, so he's going to have a higher perceived velo even if he isn't humping it up to 98 like he did at times as reliever. It will be great to see what his pitch data looks like when he's pitching in a spring game that has Statcast - as well when he's reaching the 4th/5th innings.
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Post by ematz1423 on Feb 29, 2024 14:38:09 GMT -5
Roman Anthony is very good a baseball. When the team has some righthanded pop to intersperse with Raffy, Casas and Anthony we will have much fun. It's been said ad nauseum but I'll be a parrot and say they really need to find at least 1 RHH with some pop to put somewhere in between Devers, Casas and hopefully Anthony and Mayer if all goes well. Lefty, lefty back to back in a lineup can work but three in a row could be really tough no matter how good those three are.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,888
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Post by nomar on Feb 29, 2024 14:43:30 GMT -5
Blizzards39 - Merloni on radio saying Whitlock was sitting 92-93 with the fastball, but humped it up to 95 towards the end. Is that matching the eye-test? 92-93 sounds solid to me at this point in ST. Don't need him over throwing and hurting himself. Of the whitlock/houck/Crawford/Winckowski combo I feel like Whitlock has the most upside to be a really good SP. I think Houck and Crawford could be too and I get trying it again with Winckowski but I'd be a little surprised if he stuck as an SP but you never know. Winckowski already doesn’t miss enough bats in relief. I’m not sure I really see the point in stretching him out. I’d consider it a huge win if he could replicate his results from 2023, but it feels like his ERA is due for some regression.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Feb 29, 2024 14:47:38 GMT -5
It's such a shame that Bobby Dalbec just doesn't have the contact skill because he has the RH power the team could use. Unfortunately it does ot appear that the Jarren Duran "miracle" will strike twice.
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Post by ematz1423 on Feb 29, 2024 14:50:29 GMT -5
92-93 sounds solid to me at this point in ST. Don't need him over throwing and hurting himself. Of the whitlock/houck/Crawford/Winckowski combo I feel like Whitlock has the most upside to be a really good SP. I think Houck and Crawford could be too and I get trying it again with Winckowski but I'd be a little surprised if he stuck as an SP but you never know. Winckowski already doesn’t miss enough bats in relief. I’m not sure I really see the point in stretching him out. I’d consider it a huge win if he could replicate his results from 2023, but it feels like his ERA is due for some regression. I have my reservations but I don't think there's much harm done in trying it. If he can be a serviceable #5 he'd likely offer more value to the team as that than he would being a reliever. That being said assuming health it would seem pretty unlikely to me he'd beat out any of Giolito/bello/Pivetta/Crawford/Whitlock/Houck. So he's looking at probably being #7 on the depth chart. Not going to add to that list right now but as we've all talked about it's possible he gets pushed to #8. Who knows maybe Andrew Bailey has some secret sauce for Winckowski and he'll surprise us though.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,888
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Post by nomar on Feb 29, 2024 14:56:44 GMT -5
Winckowski already doesn’t miss enough bats in relief. I’m not sure I really see the point in stretching him out. I’d consider it a huge win if he could replicate his results from 2023, but it feels like his ERA is due for some regression. I have my reservations but I don't think there's much harm done in trying it. If he can be a serviceable #5 he'd likely offer more value to the team as that than he would being a reliever. That being said assuming health it would seem pretty unlikely to me he'd beat out any of Giolito/bello/Pivetta/Crawford/Whitlock/Houck. So he's looking at probably being #7 on the depth chart. Not going to add to that list right now but as we've all talked about it's possible he gets pushed to #8. Who knows maybe Andrew Bailey has some secret sauce for Winckowski and he'll surprise us though. I agree, I don’t think it will hurt to try, I would just be surprised if anything came from it.
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Post by chaimtime on Feb 29, 2024 15:57:19 GMT -5
I have my reservations but I don't think there's much harm done in trying it. If he can be a serviceable #5 he'd likely offer more value to the team as that than he would being a reliever. That being said assuming health it would seem pretty unlikely to me he'd beat out any of Giolito/bello/Pivetta/Crawford/Whitlock/Houck. So he's looking at probably being #7 on the depth chart. Not going to add to that list right now but as we've all talked about it's possible he gets pushed to #8. Who knows maybe Andrew Bailey has some secret sauce for Winckowski and he'll surprise us though. I agree, I don’t think it will hurt to try, I would just be surprised if anything came from it. I think the exorbitant cost of starting pitching (and therefore the high value of controllable starters in trades) means that basically anyone who seems like they can stick as a starter will be given every chance possible to do so. I don’t think Winckowski has the upside that Houck and Whitlock due to the lack of swing and miss, but it really did feel like he had some pitch-to-contact skills out of the pen and could get a K when he really needed one. If that’s for real, that’s the sort of thing that helps a guy stick in the rotation.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Feb 29, 2024 16:14:22 GMT -5
Lou Merloni on Roman Anthony: people in the org told me if they let him play early in camp "he'll try to make the team" Be still my beating heart
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Post by wamderingdude on Feb 29, 2024 16:15:43 GMT -5
In his interview today Cora talked a little bit about the difference in the pitching development side. I don’t want to make it seem like Dave Bush was the worst pitching coach of all time and Bailey is some miracle worker, but i am willing to give guys a chance to turn into different pitchers with the new infrastructure changes. I was ready to be done with Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck as starters, but maybe one or two of them do pop and i think it’s worth giving them the reps to do it. Whitlock in particularly was exciting today (as exciting as you can be via radio anyway).
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Post by strike23 on Feb 29, 2024 16:19:47 GMT -5
I know Winck isn't a strikeout guy but its not like he's 100% pitch to contact, he had 8.75 k/9 and according to statcast was 51st percentile for whiff % so basically league average. He was comfortably over 9.0 k/9 as a starter for 73 AAA innings across 2021/2022. I can easily see him being a cost controlled 4/5 guy thats really attractive compared to say kyle gibson on 1/12 or wade miley on 1/8.5
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Post by strike23 on Feb 29, 2024 16:21:55 GMT -5
Lou Merloni on Roman Anthony: people in the org told me if they let him play early in camp "he'll try to make the team" Be still my beating heart Is there anything Anthony could realistically do in camp to start the year in the majors assuming no injuries to any of the existing OF or a trade?
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Post by scottysmalls on Feb 29, 2024 16:22:48 GMT -5
In his interview today Cora talked a little bit about the difference in the pitching development side. I don’t want to make it seem like Dave Bush was the worst pitching coach of all time and Bailey is some miracle worker, but i am willing to give guys a chance to turn into different pitchers with the new infrastructure changes. I was ready to be done with Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck as starters, but maybe one or two of them do pop and i think it’s worth giving them the reps to do it. Whitlock in particularly was exciting today (as exciting as you can be via radio anyway). Whitlock always has looked good as a starter, if he's successful there this year I attribute it more to a physical training success than a 2024 pitching development one.
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Post by orion09 on Feb 29, 2024 16:27:15 GMT -5
In his interview today Cora talked a little bit about the difference in the pitching development side. I don’t want to make it seem like Dave Bush was the worst pitching coach of all time and Bailey is some miracle worker, but i am willing to give guys a chance to turn into different pitchers with the new infrastructure changes. I was ready to be done with Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck as starters, but maybe one or two of them do pop and i think it’s worth giving them the reps to do it. Whitlock in particularly was exciting today (as exciting as you can be via radio anyway). I think the new pitching infrastructure is by the far the most interesting/exciting thing about this team. The command/velocity minigames on alternating days are such a straightforward but smart idea - gunning directly after the most important parameters they want to target and making a game out of it. Really looking forward to see if they’re able to start their own LAD/TB-esque run of pitching development success.
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Post by itinerantherb on Feb 29, 2024 16:39:42 GMT -5
I know Winck isn't a strikeout guy but its not like he's 100% pitch to contact, he had 8.75 k/9 and according to statcast was 51st percentile for whiff % so basically league average. He was comfortably over 9.0 k/9 as a starter for 73 AAA innings across 2021/2022. I can easily see him being a cost controlled 4/5 guy thats really attractive compared to say kyle gibson on 1/12 or wade miley on 1/8.5 And with that excellent 51% GB rate, the improved infield defense could go a long way.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 29, 2024 17:00:52 GMT -5
Be still my beating heart Is there anything Anthony could realistically do in camp to start the year in the majors assuming no injuries to any of the existing OF or a trade? No
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Post by wamderingdude on Feb 29, 2024 17:05:08 GMT -5
In his interview today Cora talked a little bit about the difference in the pitching development side. I don’t want to make it seem like Dave Bush was the worst pitching coach of all time and Bailey is some miracle worker, but i am willing to give guys a chance to turn into different pitchers with the new infrastructure changes. I was ready to be done with Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck as starters, but maybe one or two of them do pop and i think it’s worth giving them the reps to do it. Whitlock in particularly was exciting today (as exciting as you can be via radio anyway). Whitlock always has looked good as a starter, if he's successful there this year I attribute it more to a physical training success than a 2024 pitching development one. Totally plausible! the injury issues have played a big part for sure, but even when healthy i don’t think the results have quite lived up to what i’ve expected with his pitch mix and command profile. Going to be interesting to see what happens with all three
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 29, 2024 17:13:53 GMT -5
Is there anything Anthony could realistically do in camp to start the year in the majors assuming no injuries to any of the existing OF or a trade? No This isn’t even something we should really want. It’s not going to be what’s best for his development and I think in a best case scenario for this season’s development he’d have a real shot at ROY next year.
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Post by adamgregory81 on Feb 29, 2024 17:34:35 GMT -5
This isn’t even something we should really want. It’s not going to be what’s best for his development and I think in a best case scenario for this season’s development he’d have a real shot at ROY next year. Curious whether you’re referencing something specific, or if you think he’s just too inexperienced in general? My point being, superstars break the mold, you can’t apply the typical rules or averages to truly exceptional players (I.e., Soto, Acuna, Tatis, more recently, A-Rod, Griffey, Andruw Jones come to mind from another time). I’m not saying Roman is necessarily a bona fide superstar (how could we know at this stage), but if he is, I’d expect him to show out this spring in a way that would make it difficult to impossible to send him back down when the spring concludes. FWIW - I don’t think that’s a likely outcome, but I can’t (and don’t want to) rule it out.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 29, 2024 17:40:45 GMT -5
This isn’t even something we should really want. It’s not going to be what’s best for his development and I think in a best case scenario for this season’s development he’d have a real shot at ROY next year. Curious whether you’re referencing something specific, or if you think he’s just too inexperienced in general? My point being, superstars break the mold, you can’t apply the typical rules or averages to truly exceptional players (I.e., Soto, Acuna, Tatis, more recently, A-Rod, Griffey, Andruw Jones come to mind from another time). I’m not saying Roman is necessarily a bona fide superstar (how could we know at this stage), but if he is, I’d expect him to show out this spring in a way that would make it difficult to impossible to send him back down when the spring concludes. FWIW - I don’t think that’s a likely outcome, but I can’t (and don’t want to) rule it out. The latter. Anthony is a great player but he has a grand total of 43 PA's above High-A and while he was excellent last year, there were also things that he still needs to work on (not citing anything new as it's in the SP report, but breaking balls and lefties in particular) and he's ultimately going to be best served doing that in the minors where he can play every day and actually face pitchers that challenge his weaknesses, as throwing him to the fire now would likely serve to hurt the big league team. I think you can pretty easily rule it out, given that once a lot of the established big leaguers get healthy the opportunities for him to show out are going to dwindle pretty substantially. It's great to see that he's managed to hold his own in his opportunities, though.
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Post by yuchangclan on Feb 29, 2024 20:51:22 GMT -5
This isn’t even something we should really want. It’s not going to be what’s best for his development and I think in a best case scenario for this season’s development he’d have a real shot at ROY next year. Curious whether you’re referencing something specific, or if you think he’s just too inexperienced in general? My point being, superstars break the mold, you can’t apply the typical rules or averages to truly exceptional players (I.e., Soto, Acuna, Tatis, more recently, A-Rod, Griffey, Andruw Jones come to mind from another time). I’m not saying Roman is necessarily a bona fide superstar (how could we know at this stage), but if he is, I’d expect him to show out this spring in a way that would make it difficult to impossible to send him back down when the spring concludes. FWIW - I don’t think that’s a likely outcome, but I can’t (and don’t want to) rule it out. He definitely won’t start the year on the roster, but he COULD make things interesting and have a case to be called up this season. That would be well ahead of schedule, if so. Xander and Devers both debuted at 20, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility this year if he keeps progressing(Anthony turns 20 in a couple months).
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Post by asm18 on Feb 29, 2024 21:00:47 GMT -5
It certainly isn’t a controversial take that Roman Anthony should 100% get more time to develop in AA, but just as a thought experiment:
As of right now, who is the better fielder - Jarren Duran or Roman Anthony, and by how much?
As of right now, who is the better hitter - Jarren Duran or Roman Anthony, and by how much?
I personally don’t know the answer here, but it’s interesting seeing Roman as a 19 year old vs major leaguers in spring training and having more confidence in his at-bats and when he’s up at the plate than certain guys higher on the depth chart.
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Post by sxfan on Feb 29, 2024 22:11:24 GMT -5
Few early points I've noticed all spring.
-Tyler O'Neil seems like he's been primarily in LF all spring working out. I saw Refsnyder getting a CF start versus moving O'Neil around. Something to keep a eye on for another reason--->
-Makes Duran a even stronger trade candidate. If Duran isn't in CF, then LF is his next option. If that's occupied by O'Neil then someone is expendable here. Duran wouldn't be in CF because->
-There's been a lot of smoke about Rafaela making the team and being the primary CF. He's off to a good start in spring, which makes situation even more interesting.
-Whitlock is my choice for the fifth starting job. He's the only guy you can close your eyes and maybe pretend to see a guy getting through a lineup twice. I don't think Houck can do it with a lineup full of LHB. Winkowski can't do it because of stuff.
-I hope Kenly Jansen is traded because->
-Houck is really interesting as a closer. If he comes in and ticks up his stuff to 97-99 mph with the fastball for one inning bursts, with his slider, it'll make it easier for him to get LHB out.
-I hope they trade Chris Martin, too. This is more or less because of value. I want to see all the bullpen arms the Sox acquired over the winter to stay with the big league club to see what the Sox have there. Weissert, Campbell, Slaten, Cooper Criswell for probably long relief to start the year (he's interchangeable, could DFA him tomorrow and have Chris Murphy replace him, but keeping him for depth I'm guessing). You could keep Martin, but just a personal preference.
-Waiting to see if Duval comes back and the Sox DFA Rob Refsnyder.
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Post by adamgregory81 on Mar 1, 2024 0:04:11 GMT -5
Curious whether you’re referencing something specific, or if you think he’s just too inexperienced in general? My point being, superstars break the mold, you can’t apply the typical rules or averages to truly exceptional players (I.e., Soto, Acuna, Tatis, more recently, A-Rod, Griffey, Andruw Jones come to mind from another time). I’m not saying Roman is necessarily a bona fide superstar (how could we know at this stage), but if he is, I’d expect him to show out this spring in a way that would make it difficult to impossible to send him back down when the spring concludes. FWIW - I don’t think that’s a likely outcome, but I can’t (and don’t want to) rule it out. The latter. Anthony is a great player but he has a grand total of 43 PA's above High-A and while he was excellent last year, there were also things that he still needs to work on (not citing anything new as it's in the SP report, but breaking balls and lefties in particular) and he's ultimately going to be best served doing that in the minors where he can play every day and actually face pitchers that challenge his weaknesses, as throwing him to the fire now would likely serve to hurt the big league team. I think you can pretty easily rule it out, given that once a lot of the established big leaguers get healthy the opportunities for him to show out are going to dwindle pretty substantially. It's great to see that he's managed to hold his own in his opportunities, though. I rule out things that are 100 percent true - so no, not easy; I’m talking about the 5 percentile ceiling here - for as bad as this offseason has been, however unlikely, there is undoubtedly a path for Roman to make the team - you don’t send your best player to the farm to preserve roster construction on a team expected to win less than 80 games. If we’re talking about the probable route, of course, I think it would be a pretty big surprise for him to start anywhere but AA. With that said, when you read a quote like the one above, it’s pretty clear that the chance of him breaking camp with the team is not 0 (50/1 sounds about right, but im a homer and eternally optimistic and would probably take the bet at 20/1 after reading that quote). Said another way, I still can’t rule it out - you do your math and I’ll do mine.
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