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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 12, 2013 13:37:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't want McCann for over 3 years and $39 mil or Salty for over 3 years and $32 mil. And I do recognize that Salty has less wear and is younger.
Both may well get more than that. If so I let them go. McCann probably is a Yankee already IMO.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 12, 2013 13:51:38 GMT -5
...Think it was Farrell and his listening to the SP not wanting anyone else over Salty to throw to was why Lavarnway got into so few games last year and nothing else. Neither is what anyone would call a defensive 1st catcher and Lavarnway would be the guy I'd expect to develop better into a catch and throw guy eventually. It's more about those veteran pitchers trusting him more, just like those same ones having to get used to Salty when Tek hung up his cletes finally and they had no choice. ... This is pure conjecture. There have been concerns about Lavarnaway's defensive chops from the get-go. It isn't just about pitchers and what they want, it's about one of the more important defensive posotions on the field. ...The concussion issues for Ross?... See above. ...That mega contract some are wanting to throw out for Salty/McCann... It's just burning money... You need to be realistic about good position players. A three-year deal at say $12 million is at worst a slight overpay and it's probably less than he's really worth going forward, maybe much less. This year, he brought enough to the table that his value was $5-6 million more than that. You can bet his agent knows that as well as we and the team do. So his current contract was money very well burnt. Even at something like that $12 million, it still would be. Over the last three years, his strikeouts per nine have decreased, and his walks per nine increased. Those numbers still aren't spectacular, and the two lines will probably never come close to meeting, but the power is real and he's much a better than you give him credit for. This is a guy who's in his prime,
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Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 12, 2013 16:15:18 GMT -5
...Think it was Farrell and his listening to the SP not wanting anyone else over Salty to throw to was why Lavarnway got into so few games last year and nothing else. Neither is what anyone would call a defensive 1st catcher and Lavarnway would be the guy I'd expect to develop better into a catch and throw guy eventually. It's more about those veteran pitchers trusting him more, just like those same ones having to get used to Salty when Tek hung up his cletes finally and they had no choice. ... This is pure conjecture. There have been concerns about Lavarnaway's defensive chops from the get-go. It isn't just about pitchers and what they want, it's about one of the more important defensive posotions on the field. Just to throw this out there, but if you believe that Farrel went with Salty over Lavarnway only because all of the SP wanted Salty, doesn't this in itself say a lot about Lavarnway? These SP are professionals with millions of dollars on the line which can be affected by the performance of their catcher. If they all choose Salty over Lavarnway, it is probably less based on 'he's my buddy' and more based on 'he's better than the other guy at his job'. Johnsilver52 - I think your argument FOR Lavarnway is more damning than it is helpful.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,171
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Post by jimoh on Oct 12, 2013 17:04:03 GMT -5
Ross has 2000+ career atbats with no platoon split. What did in his few PAs this year vs rhp, some of it after coming back from concussions, is not too significant. He can back up either a LHH or a RHH
His age and concussions are a concern. If he's your backup, you want a guy or two or three in AAA who can fill in. And look, we have that!
I agree that McCann will be paid much much more than Salty, and think that there is close to zero chance that it will be the Sox.
I want Salty back; the QO will help us get him on a costly though reasonable deal.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 12, 2013 17:21:40 GMT -5
Norm,
yes, it was all conjecture as to how much Lavarnway would develop, then it was the same for Salty was it not? didn't he have to learn the hard way after Tek finally retired?
Salty wasn't exactly a starter himself by any shape or form until then, yes.. He was lucky enough to get in more games than Lavarnway has, but his defensive reputation was at least as tarnished as is Lavarnway's and we don't even know who is responsible for said tarnishment of Lava's.. It's a "he said/she said" thing from earlier in his career and lately his coaches have said nothing but good things about his game behind the plate.
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Post by jmei on Oct 12, 2013 17:57:19 GMT -5
Salty wasn't exactly a starter himself by any shape or form until then, yes.. He was lucky enough to get in more games than Lavarnway has, but his defensive reputation was at least as tarnished as is Lavarnway's and we don't even know who is responsible for said tarnishment of Lava's.. It's a "he said/she said" thing from earlier in his career and lately his coaches have said nothing but good things about his game behind the plate. Saltalamacchia's defensive tools have always been pretty well rated (see here for instance), and while he struggled with footwork and technique at times (and there was that stretch where he struggled to throw the ball back to the pitcher), he never had Lavarnway's reputation defensively. Lavarnway, on the other hand, has received almost universally negative reviews from independent evaluators, although they have noted some improvement. Yes, his coaches have had some nice things to say, but of course they're only going to say nice things. Besides, the front office clearly has a negative opinion of Lavarnway-- that's the only explanation for how little playing time he got this season. I understand the idea that Lavarnway probably still has starting catcher upside if his defense has truly improved enough to be passable and if he regains the power and patience he had during his breakout years. But that's a gamble that a big-market team with championship aspirations shouldn't have to take.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 13, 2013 15:25:44 GMT -5
Not sure where to post this exactly, so will put it here.
Cafardo had a pretty decent article today in several of the topics he wrote on. One was the cost of any possible extension regarding lester and the length dictating if they could look to move him this off season. The other is that they just may look to move one of the veteran starters anyway, which I figured either Dempster, or Doubrant were goners anyway with Workman ready for a spot, Ranaudo and probably Barnes ready at some point during the next season.
THEN Cafardo drops something odd out of the sun that the team could just be thinking of moving either lester, OR Peavy.. Interesting?
My point of shock regarding not really wanting to move any of Lester/Peavy/Lackey/Bucholz? In all my time as a Sox fan? NEVER has the team had a front 4 as capable as those. '75 they came close with Tiant, Wise, Lee and Cleveland (Moret won like 14G as a swingman as well) but this is the best front 4 in all my time watching them as a fan and even if 2 are potential FA? Would much rather them take back pennies on the dollar for Dempster, or anything they can get for Doubrant, even if he's the one with years of control. That front 4 is as good as any in the AL East not currently pitching for the Rays.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 13, 2013 16:26:33 GMT -5
Extend Lester and Peavy. Let Doubront, Dempster and Lackey play out their contracts. Use Workman from the pen and use Morales, Webster, Ranaudo...etc as starter depth. Over time one or more of the young guys hopefully emerge as starters.
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